Topic: NK fires short range missile // escalating NK - US tensions - page 2. (Read 416 times)

The status quo is beneficial to China. Not only do it maintain a buffer state between it and US ally SoKor, it also gets to exploit NoKor's natural resources for cheap. It really is the only reason NoKor haven't collapsed yet.

As I recall the matter, Trump promised Rocket Boy that the US would protect NK if they were invaded. That's what reversed the tables, and what negated the merit of being a nuclear power. I don't see a promise to denuclearize the peninsula as any kind of a statement about what and where the US might keep its nukes. These days they can be fired from ships, submarines, aircraft and then the cruise missiles have a range of 600-1000 miles.

I am sure many people do not know about the gradual process by which the Cold War was ended. We are clearly on that road with NK. The strip of land between N and SK, many, many land mine fields have been cleared. There are many signals as to this process occurring.

As for the tactical missile. If I had to bet, I would wager NK has a customer or two who expressed an interest in intermediate range missiles.....

In the past, the US had lifted some sanctions and provided some aid to NK in exchange for this, however the US didn’t fall for this ploy this time around.

Its probably just more internal rhetoric as usual, possibly staged for the "masses" to be kept in check. This is a government whose primary principle is: military power first, and it also happens to be hereditary, not unlike the monarchies of the past.

"NK State media" is redundant. EVERYTHING in NK is State owned. Its a socialist state inspired by Stalin, of which Kim Il Sung (NK's founder) was a big admirer. things went bad when he died, with both China and Russia which were both pissed back then by the Stalinism of Kim.

So they poured everything into the military and had great famines socialism always produces (just like Mao). At the same time building things nobody wanted (such as that spaceship shaped hotel in Pyongyang) while the people remain in eternal poverty and suffering.


But oh, Imperialism™ bad, "communism" good, uh huh... See how well it worked in history: Socialism always does the same, coercion by the state. NK is a perfect example. The people there can only hope for a German style reunification, where the wealth of the south will revitalize the neglected and exploited north. But this can be traumatic at best. Decades of a socialism system does weird things to humans, not unlike what happened to the Soviet Union when it disbanded.

It is important to understand that NK already gave such denuclearization promises multiple times and every time they failed their promises as soon as they got some benefit.
This time looks exactly the same: Trump tried to force China not to export any oil to NK and this time China was ready to do it. As we know the economy of any country is not working without oil and NK is not an exception so Kim decided to start a conversation... Again...
Well, as we see not their dialogue failed and everything goes the same way as it was before.

I dont think most people will agree to that:



I think this is what people call american exceptionalism.

Yes, China is a close ally of North Korea, and is probably the only reason they have been able to survive as long as they have. NK is a proxy of China whose goal is to prevent the US from exerting too much influence into the East.

I don't think NK is a sock puppet, or directly controlled by China, but is rather currently heavily influenced by China. This relationship could backfire if another country forms an alliance with NK that outweighs the Chinese-NK relationship, and NK is able to attach a Nuke to a long range short range missile, because the Chinese may find themselves right next to a unstable country that is no longer friendly with Nuclear weapons, and it would be dangerous to try to go to war with them.

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The ultimate goal is to put an end to the risk of War/armed conflict on the Korean Peninsula.

The North Korean government is also not very nice, and has a long history of human rights violations, and heavy handed tactics to stop dissent within the country. It is also, along with Iran, a state sponsor of Terrorism. The NK government may not act rationally in trying to defend itself. The NK government has previously threatened to launch Nuclear Missiles to US cities.

Simply put, it is unacceptable for the NK government to have nuclear weapons capable of hitting targets allied with the United States. It appears to be the goal of the NK government to develop technology capable of hitting targets located in the US mainland.

The United States government does not act the same way the NK government acts, not by a large margin. When the US goes to war, it goes to great lengths to prevent civilian casualties. Wars, and military conflicts the US has been involved in over the past century have had the goal of solving other peoples problems, such as overthrowing tyrants, and dictators, and to stop the spread of communism/socialism, that has killed hundreds of millions of people over the past century.     

The same reason anyone should?  FWIW, I don't think anyone should denuclearize but people are always pushing for it.  

-The goal of the summits was "complete and irreversible denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula"
-South Korea is part of the Korean peninsula
-The US is obligated to protect South Korea and Japan under its nuclear umbrella treaty
-The US has military presence in South Korea

Based on all of those things, moving towards the "complete and irreversible denuclearization of the Korean peninsula" would require a combination of removing US presence, removing US nuclear capabilities, ending the nuclear umbrella protections, or getting rid of our offensive nuclear arsenal.  

That is the way it has always been communicated and the way North Korea always seen it but of course Washington said those words and meant "just north korea".  They had to say "korean peninsula" to avoid sounding so flagrantly one-sided and hypocritical from the start.  

North Korea is a tool of China, that taken in context the actions of North Korea become more transparent.

You are crazy.

I don't think anyone was ever claiming the US was going to denuclearize, and I am not aware of any compelling reason why we should.

Good.  This should help them defend their country from imperial invasion. Sanctions are America's way of taking their frustrations out on helpless poor people when they can't get other wealthy overlords to cave to demands and its really disgusting. 

The US had no intention to denuclearize the peninsula and only wanted NK to get rid of their weapons while keeping ours.  I think Trump got confused about what denuclearization of the peninsula meant and it took him months to figure it out. 

There is a report that North Korea recently filed a "new tactical guided weapons firing test" today. This is according to North Korea's state run media.

North Korea has previously not conducted any ballistic weapons tests since late 2017, as Trump had successfully deescalated US-NK relations that appeared to be heading to war.

Talks to fully denuclearize North Korea broke down during the last summit between North Korea and US President Trump, when NK wanted sanctions removed in exchange for something less than a full, verifiable denuclearization.

The US military had not detected any kind of missile launch recently, however this alleged test is likely meant to send a message to the US of NK's capabilities.

What will this lead to? Will the US ease on economic sanctions, while getting less than a full denuclearization? Or will the US pursue a regime change, covert or otherwise?

There has not been a war between two counties that both have nuclear weapons, and if NK is able to develop a working missile that a nuclear bomb can be attached to, going to war with NK will become very complicated.

Paywall: https://www.wsj.com/articles/kim-jong-un-sends-message-to-trump-with-military-visit-11555497814?mod=hp_lead_pos4

Update:
May 3, 2019
North Korea just fired a short range missile according to the South Korea defense ministry