No matter the pressure don't release - page 3.

GiftedMAN

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Quote from: Y3shot on September 20, 2023, 02:50:06 PM

Quote from: stompix on September 20, 2023, 02:21:29 PM

Damn, the title sounds like some BSDM movie!

One thing that struck me:

Quote

It wasn't up to 10 minutes after he contacted his bank I received the payment in my account.

I don't believe that the bank was someone able to solve and transfer your money the balance reflect in your account in 10 minutes after not being able to do in 2 days, you said he had proven that he had sent the payment with documents, by chance can you compare the proofs with the current transfer as I tend to believe that as in many cases he didn't pay at all the first time and only under pressure and maybe because of a good fluctuation in exchange rates he agreed to do so!

I can't really tell if he never did or did the transaction the first time. But from the alert I received I can see two different dates 14/09/2023 which is the first day of the transaction, and the second date 15/09/2023 was the day I received the payment.

Network congestion maybe the reason why the money didn't reflect to your account the very day that the money was sent to you but on seeing two different dates when you got the alert, this clearly means that the sender sent the money on the first date but it reflected on the last date which you got the alert.

Banks usually have network issues and most times people lose their money because of this issues because atimes the sender may be debited but the person whom the money is sent to won't be created but after some time when the receiver may not be around the sender again because it will always be said that the money will reflect later since the sender has seen debit alert, the money may be reversed to the sender and the receiver will be at lost since he can't get his goods or the money for it again but when it comes to p2p transaction, it is advisable to always confirm your money before releasing your Bitcoin.

traderethereum

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Actually, I'm a bit confused by @OP's story but I'm trying to understand as best I can.
I have only used P2P on Binance and always try to look for sellers who have the highest ratings and I can see some sellers have 100% completion on Binance.
The price difference may be slightly different from other sellers, but there might be a lot of difference in the ratings, so I'd rather pay a little more than get into trouble.

If you want to use P2P on DEX, make sure that the seller is a seller who has a high rating and a high level of success in transactions to avoid problems because they always maintain their reputation well.
We may still need an escrow agent to hold the money and complete the transaction so that both parties have no problems.
And it is right that if you do not receive anything, you do not have to release the funds and you can wait for their response to make the transactions.
And for the @OP case, he did the right thing by not releasing the coins until he received the money.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: Learn Bitcoin on September 21, 2023, 03:32:58 AM

Bitcoin is supposed to be for privacy and for being your own bank. You could get your payment via different payment methods. Why bank? Bitcoin is supposed to eliminate the need for banks

Bitcoin should eliminate the need for exchanges too. Bitcoin is best for going to the shop (physically) and pay for some goods you will take home with yourself. Best would be if fiat would be completely off this equation. But it's not.

Now, what you mean by getting your payment different? Best would be face to face, in cash. But we also know that this has issues, from the fact the one who may want to trade with you is probably 1000s of miles away to the fact that face to face money operations face at least the risks of robbery and counterfeit.

And.. yeah, this means we "are back to" exchanges and banks and all the hassle with the (lack of) privacy. And yes, this also means we're using Bitcoin in the wrong way. Sadly. Is there a better option today (apart of moving to El Salvador)? I doubt it.

Quote from: stompix on July 03, 2023, 07:42:13 AM

Don't get me wrong, I completely hate CEX, I hate the charade that is called bitcoin cards with a visa logo, and I hate Binance and CZ probably the most on this entire forum, but let's not ignore facts, CEX are more convenient, that's why they are used because I don't have to contact some stranger, I don't have to log in my bank accounts and make a payment to exactly Quassam Bon Loden of exactly 1446.6 Euros to this account AD1400080001001234567890 and not one wrong letter and number.

Yep, this covers it incredibly well.

Bravethug

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Quote from: Y3shot on September 20, 2023, 01:47:36 PM

It is very common sometimes when we trade on exchange p2p payment delays, these delay can be from the buyer's bank or seller bank's. Many people have lose their money due to this delay of bank network thinking that the problem of the delay is from the network of bank which they will later get their money when the network of their bank becomes good and they go ahead to release the payment because of evidence of payment that the other trader have sent to show as proof.

I had trade to sell bitcoin in an exchange and I was matched with a buyer, so after he did the bank transaction I was waiting to get bank alert and the amount of money in my account Balance. We both complained to the exchange customer service to help how to go about the issue and the buyer was asked to submit his statement of account which he did, he brought evidence of payment that made it looks as if the delay of payment that have not reached me was from me. With every I was still not ready to release the payment it reflect in my account, this issue last about more than 30 hrs abd and the following day I sent him a message to contact his bank the delay which he said he did.

It wasn't up to 10 minutes after he contacted his bank I received the payment in my account. If I had release the payment because of the pressure of customer service in the exchange, the money wouldn't have gotten to me, which the buyer will be nowhere to find to make complains to his bank . Beginners should never make mistakes to release no matter how long it takes for them to receive payment. Hold on till everything is settled from both sides.

the subject title is very catchy.... sounds erotical... I read through, and as a newbie I'm equipped with a useful information, although this might look like a scam move from the buyer, but many times banks have very poor networks and sometimes some transactions can be reversed back. thank you for sharing.

Rockstarguy

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on September 21, 2023, 05:35:15 AM

I have learned that some scammers are going on P2P platforms to steal from others, they will intentionally delay time, and hope that you click on the wrong button, I have been there a few times before and they will put some unnecessary pressure on you, to say the truth, P2P trades is unsafe for beginners, they can make the worst mistakes easily, this is why reading through warnings and guides before using crypto platforms are a must.

The truth is that their have been no time when a p2p exchange was free from scammers, P2P platforms is a place where scammers are always surrounded to get a prey. Most times some buyers delays to pay for a trade for no reason , and immediately their limit of time exceed to pay the trades end, if may be mistake the finger click on confirm payment. People needs to be very careful when ever they go to P2P platforms to make trading because some trader who are their for business are looking for a prey that will fall victim that they will have advantage over.

Crypt0Gore

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I have learned that some scammers are going on P2P platforms to steal from others, they will intentionally delay time, and hope that you click on the wrong button, I have been there a few times before and they will put some unnecessary pressure on you, to say the truth, P2P trades is unsafe for beginners, they can make the worst mistakes easily, this is why reading through warnings and guides before using crypto platforms are a must.

I remember where someone used fake transactions for me, I was lucky to win the case because I have been using the platform for years and I have done hundreds of transactions with no single bad record, I ended up providing my bank statement and also good picture quality.

When dealing with P2P trades always choose those that have no bad record, you sure know that P2P platforms have ratings, do no use anyone with bad record and you will have smooth transactions.

UchihaSarada

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Quote from: Y3shot on September 20, 2023, 01:47:36 PM

It is very common sometimes when we trade on exchange p2p payment delays, these delay can be from the buyer's bank or seller bank's. Many people have lose their money due to this delay of bank network thinking that the problem of the delay is from the network of bank which they will later get their money when the network of their bank becomes good and they go ahead to release the payment because of evidence of payment that the other trader have sent to show as proof.

They were scammed not because of bank transfer delay but because scammers told lies to scam naive traders. That scam trade partner actually does not proceed a bank transfer for the victim. Borrowing a reason like bank delays the transfer to complete a trade between two trade partners is easiest way to lie.

The key rule to avoid scam in peer to peer trading is DON'T release your coins if you have yet received payment from your trade partner. Ignore all things your trade partner chat with you, if you don't receive payment, don't release. You won't be marked as a bad trader because you refuse to release coin in such situation.

Release coin first, before receiving your payment, means you will lose your coin forever. Scammers are very quickly to withdraw coins from successful scam trades and it's not enough time for you to get support from exchanges.

Yamane_Keto

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I completely agree with you, do not release the guarantee unless everything is settled on both sides or at least rely on reliable people who have a good track record in resolving problems as these people are more understanding of delays in the time of arrival of payments than beginners who are usually in a hurry and try to put pressure. You need the support team to complete the transaction quickly, and this is something that scammers may do.

Jawhead999

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I'm not really sure which P2P platform you use, but most of the sites already give warning to not release your funds if you still not receive money from the buyer.

That's why in Bitcoin discussion we always hear "don't trust, verify" phrases, you need to check if you're really get the money and not trust the buyer words. Though, the bad thing is banks can reverse any transaction.

Upgrade00

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Quote from: stompix on September 21, 2023, 04:02:11 AM

No, that's not how it happens! The moment you initiate the trade the money gets locked on that platform, and you're not opening trade on any of those without depositing money, which means they have left your control!

In a P2P platform like bisq, the money never gets locked away, infact the exchange does not have access to it since they changed the way escrow works and stopped being a party in it.

Now the escrow address is a 2-of-2 multi sig, from the 2-of-3 is used to be, and the only parties involved in it now are the traders. Technically the funds still remain in your custody until the end of the trade and the platform has no access to it.

tabas

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Thanks for sharing that experience, those that are always trading through the P2P markets. It's very important that you're sure with the transaction that you'll do and make it always black and white before releasing the crypto that you're about to sell. It's okay to delay it if there's no confirmation yet from your bank and the money isn't reflecting yet. For sure that the legitimate buyers will understand why you're delaying it and they will do the same thing if they are on your shoes. It's just for precautionary measures to avoid scammers that might just reverse the transaction since it's bank transaction and you're at loss with that as you're the one to release the crypto. Another red flag for those not genuine traders that you may encounter are the ones that are in a hurry when trying to push you to release it when there's no confirmation yet. When you encounter one of those, you know what to do.

stompix

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Quote from: Upgrade00 on September 21, 2023, 03:14:43 AM

In a decentralized, P2P service, you are always in control of your funds and at no time do you give that up to the exchange or any other party until the trade is done.

So let me get this right, how on earth are you still in control of your funds till the trade is done?
It means the other guy would have to wire you the money and only when you receive those you send the coins?

No, that's not how it happens! The moment you initiate the trade the money gets locked on that platform, and you're not opening trade on any of those without depositing money, which means they have left your control!

Learn Bitcoin

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Quote from: Y3shot on September 20, 2023, 01:47:36 PM

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First, I wouldn't say I like seeing people using their bank accounts with centralized exchanges to get crypto payments. Bitcoin is supposed to be for privacy and for being your own bank. You could get your payment via different payment methods. Why bank? Bitcoin is supposed to eliminate the need for banks, and we combine bank accounts with centralized exchanges. Even if you use centralized exchange, do not combine it with exchanges.

User GazetaBitcoin has written a great article about it and I would like to quote a few lines;

Quote from: ?? on ??

12 years passed already since the launch of Bitcoin. And yet, most of people have no idea how it should be used, nor what Bitcoin is good for. Most of the users make a combination against the nature, using Bitcoin together with banks and centralized exchanges, having no knowledge about its libertarian and crypto-anarchic grounds. Without understanding that Bitcoin is here for helping them evade the slavery that governs and banks coerces them to, people do all they can to enslaves themselves, making an easy job for the elites which oppress them for thousands of years.

Full article: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5310500

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Quote from: stompix on September 21, 2023, 02:39:41 AM

Which would make a no kyc exchange better than p2p deals? Grin

Or would mean that you're safer if you stop trading real bitcoins and just play with derivates with your own bank if they start offering it.

The risk associated with an exchange is not only privacy related, the most primary risk is the funds you have in it. A no KYC exchange is still centralized and still has completed control of your funds for the duration of time that it is on their platform; "not your keys, not your coins".
In a decentralized, P2P service, you are always in control of your funds and at no time do you give that up to the exchange or any other party until the trade is done.

stompix

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Quote from: Y3shot on September 20, 2023, 02:50:06 PM

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I can't really tell if he never did or did the transaction the first time. But from the alert I received I can see two different dates 14/09/2023 which is the first day of the transaction, and the second date 15/09/2023 was the day I received the payment.

Yeah, you've said it earlier that it was 30 hours after that so, guess it couldn't have been just a day, especially since it's a working hours time delay on. Probably you know the dates way better and he might have squeezed in somehow and after all at this point it doesn't matter anymore. But, I myself would avoid this guy next time!

Quote from: EL MOHA on September 20, 2023, 04:58:42 PM

He definitely didn’t pay the first time, he just came up with a fake transaction receipt, if OP had actually copied the transaction ID on the re receipt and contacted his bank with that information they would have told you that the transaction didn’t exist then.

My hunch too, is there are scammers that don't pay a dime and there are stupid morons that pray on a possible 5% in price by delaying transactions over the weekend claiming bank's fault, if the exchange rate is favorable they pay if not they claim it's a problem and just cancel the deal.

Quote from: NeuroticFish on September 20, 2023, 11:02:19 PM

I can't argue with your math, it is correct

However, I still think that these p2p exchanges need a better chance simply because they don't get your ID just for trading your pocket money (I don't talk about whales and day traders here).

Which would make a no kyc exchange better than p2p deals? Grin

Or would mean that you're safer if you stop trading real bitcoins and just play with derivates with your own bank if they start offering it.

Honestly, I don't know anymore, I was discussing at one point what's more dangerous, and well, I'm not convinced 100% that making p2p deals with somebody you don't know is way safer than dealing with a CEX, ad this is why?

Quote from: stompix on July 03, 2023, 07:42:13 AM

Don't get me wrong, I completely hate CEX, I hate the charade that is called bitcoin cards with a visa logo, and I hate Binance and CZ probably the most on this entire forum, but let's not ignore facts, CEX are more convenient, that's why they are used because I don't have to contact some stranger, I don't have to log in my bank accounts and make a payment to exactly Quassam Bon Loden of exactly 1446.6 Euros to this account AD1400080001001234567890 and not one wrong letter and number.

CryptSafe

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Many people have lost their assets as a result of this scenario of being under pressure to meet up with time and upon their realization, they already released the assets when they are yet to confirm payment and it will be too late for them to recover it back. I have had this experience before where I was trying to sell a coin on a p2p platform. The buyer did not pay on time and it was 4 minutes to deadline that was when the buyer chatted me up that he or she has made payment meanwhile buyer presence shows online for over 35 minutes and this buyer has executed reasonable numbers of sales record based on the trade history I checked. So I was wondering if the buyer did it intentionally to scam me or a network issues from buyer end. I did not release the coin until I received the alert 1 hour after transaction time elapsed. What made me more alert was the fact that buyer had not uploaded evidence of payment all these while mounting pressure on me to release my coin but I stood my ground not allowing the pressure to control me. Ever since that experience, I decided not to give in to pressure of releasing coin when I have not received a credit alert for my trade and I do make transfer first for confirmation before releasing my assets.

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: stompix on September 20, 2023, 02:21:29 PM

In this situation:
CEX - the CEX, their bank, your bank, you
P2P -the P2P platform, the other guy, the other guy bank, your bank, you

A bit two many peers above 2!

I can't argue with your math, it is correct

However, I still think that these p2p exchanges need a better chance simply because they don't get your ID just for trading your pocket money (I don't talk about whales and day traders here).
And correct warnings for avoiding stupid mistakes is imho part of that.

EL MOHA

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Quote from: Y3shot on September 20, 2023, 02:50:06 PM

Quote from: stompix on September 20, 2023, 02:21:29 PM

I don't believe that the bank was someone able to solve and transfer your money the balance reflect in your account in 10 minutes after not being able to do in 2 days, you said he had proven that he had sent the payment with documents, by chance can you compare the proofs with the current transfer as I tend to believe that as in many cases he didn't pay at all the first time and only under pressure and maybe because of a good fluctuation in exchange rates he agreed to do so!

I can't really tell if he never did or did the transaction the first time. But from the alert I received I can see two different dates 14/09/2023 which is the first day of the transaction, and the second date 15/09/2023 was the day I received the payment.

He definitely didn’t pay the first time, he just came up with a fake transaction receipt, if OP had actually copied the transaction ID on the re receipt and contacted his bank with that information they would have told you that the transaction didn’t exist then. This case are very common on centralized exchanges so do not believe any documents sent to you with the fake promise that is bank error not allowing the transaction to reflect on your account. It is easier this days to get a fake transaction receipt of any bank

SatoPrincess

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Thanks OP for bringing this topic, I recently made a p2p transaction where the buyer was supposed to pay me a certain amount in naira, let’s say N562,000 and instead he sent N56,200 to my account. I wasn’t sure if it was planned or an error on his part, so I contacted him. He later made a balance payment through another bank account. This made me very suspicious, I believe this is a tactic scammers now use to trick OTC traders, they send an amount that looks like what they are suppose to pay, and tell the seller they have paid. Close inspection will show that the figures do not match, like OP said “don’t let the pressure get to you”, make sure you have the agreed amount in your account before releasing the coins.

Obari

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I didn't have to go through your whole thread but I already knew what you were talking about and yes I agree with you that no matter the pressure don't release and when trading on exchanges, please don't ever clicking on random links as they might be phising links and might automatically authorize release your coin without your consent.
Well I don't know why I feel very bad when I see this stories, because I've personally experienced this after I got scammed of a $150 loan i took from shashan and I just learnt this in a very hard way and will always sound it very clear and loud against clicking on random links.

@Y3shot I'm glad you were able to hold your ground and on no account will ever release my coin if I don't get an alart for my trade.

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