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Topic: No mining hardware is worth buying - page 4. (Read 15301 times)

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1000
October 22, 2013, 01:47:27 PM
#75
Who cares of ROI... My rigs are bought with cash... From poker. Now I have good money. Poker is illigal in my country. BTC is not. So my pokerwinnings are now good. I am happy to pay tax...

So what you're saying is that you're okay with mining at a loss because it enables you to launder your illegal gambling winnings.  Got it.
full member
Activity: 180
Merit: 100
October 22, 2013, 10:43:24 AM
#74
Who cares of ROI... My rigs are bought with cash... From poker. Now I have good money. Poker is illigal in my country. BTC is not. So my pokerwinnings are now good. I am happy to pay tax...
sr. member
Activity: 400
Merit: 250
the sun is shining, but the ice is still slippery
October 17, 2013, 05:43:09 PM
#73
There is no incentive to smile at anyone. The only satisfaction which is left is that the miners are the peons who make this industry work and without their sacrifice, bitcoin may not succeed. As such, giving up opportunity gains (loss of potential profit) when mining may be a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things.
Wow, this was beautifully stated. Almost poetic and definitely the truth of the matter. Thank you for that. 
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 501
October 17, 2013, 02:12:59 PM
#72
YOU ARE ALL WRONG

ALL ASICS MAKE PERFECT ROI

YOU JUST HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO DO IT

FOR SOME REASON THE INSTRUCTIONS SAID TURN IT ON AND HASH AND MAKE LOADZZZ OF MONEY

WELL THE INSTRUCTIONS CAME FROM THE CHINESE MANUFACTURERS who can't write english well

THE CORRECT INSTRUCTIONS WERE BUY AND SELL TO OTHER PEOPLE ON EBAY FOR AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE

IF YOU HAD FOLLOWED THE CORRECT INSTRUCTIONS YOU WOULD HAVE MADE LOADZZ OF FREE MONEY

AND PLENTY OF ROI

JUST MY 0.02BTC


Jamie Dimon is that you? Grin
newbie
Activity: 44
Merit: 0
October 17, 2013, 02:06:16 PM
#71
YOU ARE ALL WRONG

ALL ASICS MAKE PERFECT ROI

YOU JUST HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO DO IT

FOR SOME REASON THE INSTRUCTIONS SAID TURN IT ON AND HASH AND MAKE LOADZZZ OF MONEY

WELL THE INSTRUCTIONS CAME FROM THE CHINESE MANUFACTURERS who can't write english well

THE CORRECT INSTRUCTIONS WERE BUY AND SELL TO OTHER PEOPLE ON EBAY FOR AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE

IF YOU HAD FOLLOWED THE CORRECT INSTRUCTIONS YOU WOULD HAVE MADE LOADZZ OF FREE MONEY

AND PLENTY OF ROI

JUST MY 0.02BTC

you might be right, but with all the bolded shouting and spelling errors its hard to tell if you are smart or on crack

i am smart and i am whispering
there are loadzz of spelling errors  ha ha
the real smiley ☺ not the fake one  Smiley
full member
Activity: 281
Merit: 100
October 17, 2013, 10:50:03 AM
#70
I'm still sitting on my thought that the difficulty will be 1.8 billion by april 2014.  That's according to what the hardware manufacturers have promised.

Lsst time I ran the numbers, 0.18 BTC/gigahash would make ROI by april. Now, I think it's ~0.13/gigahash...

How much difficulty increment did you use in your calculation?

I use the btcinvest calculator.  I think it was 30% with 8% less per jump gets you to 1.8 billion. 25% with 5% less also did it...

Go to the calculator, say you have 1 gigahash, and play with different difficulty changes that give 1.8 billion in april.  Then you can see how much BTC you generate.

But remember, this 1.8 billion in april assumes that all hardware manufacturers sell out, (or mine themselves with what they don't sell...) and that they deliver on time.

ALSO, there may be unpublicized hardware incoming too.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1005
ASIC Wannabe
October 17, 2013, 10:24:50 AM
#69
YOU ARE ALL WRONG

ALL ASICS MAKE PERFECT ROI

YOU JUST HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO DO IT

FOR SOME REASON THE INSTRUCTIONS SAID TURN IT ON AND HASH AND MAKE LOADZZZ OF MONEY

WELL THE INSTRUCTIONS CAME FROM THE CHINESE MANUFACTURERS who can't write english well

THE CORRECT INSTRUCTIONS WERE BUY AND SELL TO OTHER PEOPLE ON EBAY FOR AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE

IF YOU HAD FOLLOWED THE CORRECT INSTRUCTIONS YOU WOULD HAVE MADE LOADZZ OF FREE MONEY

AND PLENTY OF ROI

JUST MY 0.02BTC

you might be right, but with all the bolded shouting and spelling errors its hard to tell if you are smart or on crack
newbie
Activity: 44
Merit: 0
October 17, 2013, 09:46:30 AM
#68
YOU ARE ALL WRONG

ALL ASICS MAKE PERFECT ROI

YOU JUST HAVE TO KNOW HOW TO DO IT

FOR SOME REASON THE INSTRUCTIONS SAID TURN IT ON AND HASH AND MAKE LOADZZZ OF MONEY

WELL THE INSTRUCTIONS CAME FROM THE CHINESE MANUFACTURERS who can't write english well

THE CORRECT INSTRUCTIONS WERE BUY AND SELL TO OTHER PEOPLE ON EBAY FOR AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE

IF YOU HAD FOLLOWED THE CORRECT INSTRUCTIONS YOU WOULD HAVE MADE LOADZZ OF FREE MONEY

AND PLENTY OF ROI

JUST MY 0.02BTC
hero member
Activity: 1316
Merit: 503
Someone is sitting in the shade today...
October 17, 2013, 12:13:53 AM
#67

 cex.io -  i am not clear exactly what happens in the background, when you buy 1 GH who physically holds this 1 GH of hardware and mines for you?  

can someone please answer this? thanks
hero member
Activity: 1316
Merit: 503
Someone is sitting in the shade today...
October 17, 2013, 12:13:09 AM
#66
Bitfury August delivery is definitely positive.
bitfury august was >2x the current price, 400GH at $18k (or was it 19k dont remember exactly), they took delivery at the very end of august.

Not factor in the bitcoin/usd price increase as you never should for roi calculations,  please enlighten on that hardware is "definitely positive"

Ok, let me try that: I don't have any of this Bitfury full-kit 400GHs units so can't testify first hand (if someone has them please confirm or deny), but let's say they started mining Sept. 1st to be on the safe side, although some did few days earlier. According to reverse mining calculations it already earned close to 80 BTC, maybe few BTC more or less. 400GHs will mine around around 35-40BTC more before network difficulty reduces mining income to satoshies, so it will return around 120 BTC mining in profitable conditions. Bitfury is energy efficient, so it will continue to grind over electricity costs even in double-digit PHs conditions. Don't need to calculate that in fiat, although they were paid in fiat and not in BTC, but it looks to me that whoever invested in that at the beginning of July is looking at his wallet and smiling to the current ASIC buyers.

sorry but that still doesnt make any sense to me. 

1) Let's use your 120 BTC return (even though i think it's very optimistic)
2) Hardware cost $18000
3) BTC/USD price at time of purchase $100  (it was below 100 but lets just use 100 for simplicity sake)

4) $18000 would yielded 180 BTC if purchased direct btc instead of mining hardware.
5) Factoring in today's $150 price, 120 BTC mined * $150 = $18000 = break even not factoring in any electricity cost etc..

So i still dont understand how the people who took delivery at end of august is profitable or making money, at best they will breakeven after months more, if difficulty continue to go up the way they do now, they will not make that 120 BTC but less and lose money.

Cannot compute...

sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
October 16, 2013, 11:59:19 PM
#65
Wat is this cex.io dividend you are mentioning?

Well, I can answer your question, the hash you buy from cex.io is mining continuously and thus giving you some Bitcoin. You can call it instant pure mining.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 531
Crypto is King.
October 16, 2013, 11:14:17 PM
#64
Wat is this cex.io dividend you are mentioning?
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
October 16, 2013, 10:55:33 PM
#63
I'm still sitting on my thought that the difficulty will be 1.8 billion by april 2014.  That's according to what the hardware manufacturers have promised.

Lsst time I ran the numbers, 0.18 BTC/gigahash would make ROI by april. Now, I think it's ~0.13/gigahash...

How much difficulty increment did you use in your calculation?
full member
Activity: 281
Merit: 100
October 16, 2013, 09:45:10 PM
#62
I'm still sitting on my thought that the difficulty will be 1.8 billion by april 2014.  That's according to what the hardware manufacturers have promised.

Lsst time I ran the numbers, 0.18 BTC/gigahash would make ROI by april. Now, I think it's ~0.13/gigahash...
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067
Christian Antkow
October 16, 2013, 06:38:20 PM
#61


 < curls up into fetal position and rocks back-and-forth, mumbling under breath incoherently >
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1077
^ Will code for Bitcoins
October 16, 2013, 06:31:29 PM
#60
The only satisfaction which is left is that the miners are the peons who make this industry work and without their sacrifice, bitcoin may not succeed. As such, giving up opportunity gains (loss of potential profit) when mining may be a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things.

That's a comfortable thought, now I feel much better.
donator
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
October 16, 2013, 05:54:07 PM
#59
Bitfury August delivery is definitely positive.
bitfury august was >2x the current price, 400GH at $18k (or was it 19k dont remember exactly), they took delivery at the very end of august.

Not factor in the bitcoin/usd price increase as you never should for roi calculations,  please enlighten on that hardware is "definitely positive"

Ok, let me try that: I don't have any of this Bitfury full-kit 400GHs units so can't testify first hand (if someone has them please confirm or deny), but let's say they started mining Sept. 1st to be on the safe side, although some did few days earlier. According to reverse mining calculations it already earned close to 80 BTC, maybe few BTC more or less. 400GHs will mine around around 35-40BTC more before network difficulty reduces mining income to satoshies, so it will return around 120 BTC mining in profitable conditions. Bitfury is energy efficient, so it will continue to grind over electricity costs even in double-digit PHs conditions. Don't need to calculate that in fiat, although they were paid in fiat and not in BTC, but it looks to me that whoever invested in that at the beginning of July is looking at his wallet and smiling to the current ASIC buyers.
Your estimate is spot on, but your conclusions are a bit off. With 120 BTC income in profitable conditions you're looking at about a 50% ROI overall after about 1 year. One scenario where you can make anything more than that is if the BTC price collapses right NOW to $20, instantly crowding out everyone who is less efficient than you and collapsing the sales market. Then there would be a net wealth transfer from the inefficient miners to the efficient ones, because the inefficient miners are out of the competition and immediately bankrupt.

Of course there are a few other scenarios which make hashpower more valuable than bitcoins, but I don't see them happening within the next 2-3 months, where this would make any impact. Instead, given that the BTC price will not collapse and keep rising sub-exponentially, the hash power will simply inflate away your yield and will cause the remaining 50% to take a lifetime.

There is no incentive to smile at anyone. The only satisfaction which is left is that the miners are the peons who make this industry work and without their sacrifice, bitcoin may not succeed. As such, giving up opportunity gains (loss of potential profit) when mining may be a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things.
full member
Activity: 557
Merit: 101
October 16, 2013, 05:26:15 PM
#58
And it would cost a lot less than $18k to buy 120BTC; plus there's no risk/hassle/work involved.

Bitfury August delivery is definitely positive.
bitfury august was >2x the current price, 400GH at $18k (or was it 19k dont remember exactly), they took delivery at the very end of august.

Not factor in the bitcoin/usd price increase as you never should for roi calculations,  please enlighten on that hardware is "definitely positive"

Ok, let me try that: I don't have any of this Bitfury full-kit 400GHs units so can't testify first hand (if someone has them please confirm or deny), but let's say they started mining Sept. 1st to be on the safe side, although some did few days earlier. According to reverse mining calculations it already earned close to 80 BTC, maybe few BTC more or less. 400GHs will mine around around 35-40BTC more before network difficulty reduces mining income to satoshies, so it will return around 120 BTC mining in profitable conditions. Bitfury is energy efficient, so it will continue to grind over electricity costs even in double-digit PHs conditions. Don't need to calculate that in fiat, although they were paid in fiat and not in BTC, but it looks to me that whoever invested in that at the beginning of July is looking at his wallet and smiling to the current ASIC buyers.
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1077
^ Will code for Bitcoins
October 16, 2013, 05:02:24 AM
#57
Bitfury August delivery is definitely positive.
bitfury august was >2x the current price, 400GH at $18k (or was it 19k dont remember exactly), they took delivery at the very end of august.

Not factor in the bitcoin/usd price increase as you never should for roi calculations,  please enlighten on that hardware is "definitely positive"

Ok, let me try that: I don't have any of this Bitfury full-kit 400GHs units so can't testify first hand (if someone has them please confirm or deny), but let's say they started mining Sept. 1st to be on the safe side, although some did few days earlier. According to reverse mining calculations it already earned close to 80 BTC, maybe few BTC more or less. 400GHs will mine around around 35-40BTC more before network difficulty reduces mining income to satoshies, so it will return around 120 BTC mining in profitable conditions. Bitfury is energy efficient, so it will continue to grind over electricity costs even in double-digit PHs conditions. Don't need to calculate that in fiat, although they were paid in fiat and not in BTC, but it looks to me that whoever invested in that at the beginning of July is looking at his wallet and smiling to the current ASIC buyers.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1018
HoneybadgerOfMoney.com Weed4bitcoin.com
October 16, 2013, 01:48:34 AM
#56
you guys all screwed up...if you are willing to keep sell orders alive (buy in and once your buy order clears immediately place sellorders at a slight gain [still gain from mining earnings while your gigahashes are on sell order]) you basically get mined coins but can either sell at a gain if you play the market correctly or sell it to be at just a slight loss such that you are still in the black on mined shares earnings.  Sure its small, but I did it daily the buy/sell game and ended up gaining  maybe 2-3x what I put in initially which was like a single coin (cashed out around 2.5, I was greedy and didn't get out before the correction which would have put me in at 2.7 BTC for simply putting in and playing on a single bitcoin within a three week period)
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