No one is discussing about Pavel Durov Arrest in France Yesterday!!

Fiatless

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Quote from: Lucius on September 24, 2024, 11:09:54 AM

We cannot know what the background of the agreement is, but this decision does not mean that the authorities got a backdoor in Telegram and that they will get user data automatically. The right of a country to request such data through court orders is completely legitimate, as is the right of Telegram to reject it if it considers such a request to be unfounded.

I assume that the recent changes in Telegram's rules are a result of the arrest and movement restrictions placed on Pavel Durov. I doubt if he would reject a court judgement from a French court to provide information about a user. He might end up in jail if he does that.

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This forum is also fully compliant with the laws, especially those in the US where the servers are located, which means that the forum has cooperated with the authorities several times and provided them with information about certain users, but it can also refuse any request if it deems that there is no legal basis for it.

In the case of Telegram, it is the court that might request this information. Failure to obey court judgment is a serious crime called contempt of court. A court order is binding on all individuals or organizations within its jurisdiction. The option the platform has in such an event is to appeal such judgment in a higher court and get a restraining order. It might end up becoming a legal battle that might eventually get to the Supreme Court.

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Quote from: Fiatless on September 24, 2024, 07:41:49 AM

Quote from: Lucius on September 24, 2024, 06:54:25 AM

Telegram will probably still retain the right to reject any attempt to identify someone to the authorities only because of their political, religious or similar views.

I doubt if they still have such rights. A warrant of arrest or court order from any influential country requesting the details of a user might be too difficult for Telegram to reject.

We cannot know what the background of the agreement is, but this decision does not mean that the authorities got a backdoor in Telegram and that they will get user data automatically. The right of a country to request such data through court orders is completely legitimate, as is the right of Telegram to reject it if it considers such a request to be unfounded.

This forum is also fully compliant with the laws, especially those in the US where the servers are located, which means that the forum has cooperated with the authorities several times and provided them with information about certain users, but it can also refuse any request if it deems that there is no legal basis for it.

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Quote from: Fiatless on September 24, 2024, 12:58:35 AM

A search warrant from the police or Court will be enough to mandate Telegram to give out your IP addresses and phone numbers to authorities. With this policy change, users are no longer safe to share their views without fear of intimidation, arrest, or imprisonment.

After this new rule by Telegram, it is now officially the end of an era when another private messaging app succumbed to the pressure of governments. This also means many scammers will quickly move to a new platform like Signal or something new in the making. I do feel a lot a crypto projects that have their current channels or have created bots to access their platform will now shift or close them.

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Quote from: Lucius on September 24, 2024, 06:54:25 AM

Quote from: Fiatless on September 24, 2024, 12:58:35 AM

~snip~
The arrest of Pavel Durov has started yielding fruits for the government. He has agreed to give out the details of users to the government which was against the forum's rules. A search warrant from the police or Court will be enough to mandate Telegram to give out your IP addresses and phone numbers to authorities. With this policy change, users are no longer safe to share their views without fear of intimidation, arrest, or imprisonment.

Forum rules? Maybe you expressed yourself wrong and you mean the previous positions of Telegram, which rejected such requests in the past?

Yeah, I was referring to Telegram as a forum. Maybe I should have called it a social media platform.

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Telegram will probably still retain the right to reject any attempt to identify someone to the authorities only because of their political, religious or similar views.

I doubt if they still have such rights. A warrant of arrest or court order from any influential country requesting the details of a user might be too difficult for Telegram to reject.

Lucius

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Quote from: Fiatless on September 24, 2024, 12:58:35 AM

~snip~
The arrest of Pavel Durov has started yielding fruits for the government. He has agreed to give out the details of users to the government which was against the forum's rules. A search warrant from the police or Court will be enough to mandate Telegram to give out your IP addresses and phone numbers to authorities. With this policy change, users are no longer safe to share their views without fear of intimidation, arrest, or imprisonment.

Forum rules? Maybe you expressed yourself wrong and you mean the previous positions of Telegram, which rejected such requests in the past?

Regardless of all the paranoia and conspiracy theories that the "attack" on Telegram is an attack on privacy, I don't see why anyone would consider it a problem if data about child abusers, drug dealers or terrorists are shared with the authorities if they request it with attached evidence?

Telegram will probably still retain the right to reject any attempt to identify someone to the authorities only because of their political, religious or similar views.

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Quote

The messaging app Telegram has said it will hand over users' IP addresses and phone numbers to authorities who have search warrants or other valid legal requests.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvglp0xny3eo

The arrest of Pavel Durov has started yielding fruits for the government. He has agreed to give out the details of users to the government which was against the forum's rules. A search warrant from the police or Court will be enough to mandate Telegram to give out your IP addresses and phone numbers to authorities. With this policy change, users are no longer safe to share their views without fear of intimidation, arrest, or imprisonment.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on September 12, 2024, 09:11:48 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on September 09, 2024, 03:42:10 AM

Do you really think there's any privacy in these phone messengers?
I would recommend you to listen to public lectures of IT security specialists.
Your camera, microphone, desktop in your phone can transmit your data at any time, and you talk about privacy.

Do you think that your internet connection is not being monitored? Unless you come out with a justified argument it is understood that you are being monitored after using multiple ways to hide yourself from the internet. None of us can hide from them but we have someone who was trying his level best and was better than WhatsApp. Frankly, I expected you to reply better when we discussed an application that helps us chat. I mean we have gone past those days when we could hide ourselves with VPN or use TOR browser as they as in the government have already found solutions to counter your lookout about this issue.

I hope you understand that Telegram was the one app that was supposed to not look into chats. By what he has done now every chat will be monitored and you can not hide from the government or those who are controlling the world. It is not good news for me but it will a bad news for your country as Russia will be the country to suffer more.

I know of a few other apps that have good private email security with encryption. Signal,Threema, Briar and others. I don't think it's a big problem for Russia. It's very expensive to keep track of everybody.

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Quote from: Fiatless on September 13, 2024, 04:35:39 AM

There has been an increase in kidnapping for ransom in some parts of my country. Many people would have thought that these criminals would ask for cryptocurrencies as payments. But they always ask for fiat cash payments, and it is almost impossible for the police to track these payments. So, besides online fiat transactions, cash might be very difficult to track.

Very true, it is almost impossible to track cash, and it is a suitable tool for scammers and other types of criminals. Take note that many criminals do not even understand anything about BTC or its technology, so they cannot commit their crime in BTC, but they use cash, which has been a tool for scammers for a very long time now.

The French authorities are also trying to get more information from authorities in Switzerland, where last year Durov's former partner made claims of violent conduct by Durov on one of the children they had together, i don't know if this is true, but it looks like the French authorities are just looking for more info to compound their claims against Durov.

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Quote from: Argoo on September 13, 2024, 06:50:12 AM

Quote from: Fiatless on September 13, 2024, 04:35:39 AM

Russia might be considering boycotting Telegram for fear of leakage of sensitive information to the West. Telegram has been Russia's military main communication channel in the Ukrainian war. Authorities in Russia are concerned that the detention of Pavel Durov might give the West access to some sensitive security information.

Durov was released from custody after some time, but with the obligation not to leave France. Most likely, he made some kind of agreement with the French government. Of course, Durov knows a lot. The news discusses whether he was a Russian agent, since he often came to Moscow and enjoyed certain privileges.

Yeah he has been released from police custody but he is still held in France. He is to report to the police two times a week and is not allowed to move out of France. For a man of his status who is used to travelling around the world, that's imprisonment.

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Quote from: Fiatless on September 13, 2024, 04:35:39 AM

Russia might be considering boycotting Telegram for fear of leakage of sensitive information to the West. Telegram has been Russia's military main communication channel in the Ukrainian war. Authorities in Russia are concerned that the detention of Pavel Durov might give the West access to some sensitive security information.

Durov was released from custody after some time, but with the obligation not to leave France. Most likely, he made some kind of agreement with the French government. Of course, Durov knows a lot. The news discusses whether he was a Russian agent, since he often came to Moscow and enjoyed certain privileges.

Indeed, the Russian military actively used telegrams during military operations in Ukraine. Now the Kremlin cannot be sure that their secret correspondence will remain secret. In such cases, it can be said that Durov himself is under threat of being eliminated by the Kremlin.

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Russia might be considering boycotting Telegram for fear of leakage of sensitive information to the West. Telegram has been Russia's military main communication channel in the Ukrainian war. Authorities in Russia are concerned that the detention of Pavel Durov might give the West access to some sensitive security information.

https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/us/will-telegram-ceo-pavel-durovs-arrest-unlock-some-top-russian-secrets/articleshow/113263943.cms

Quote from: Z-tight on September 12, 2024, 04:22:59 PM

The media hardly talks about fiat fraud, it is always about crypto fraud, spreading fud in the hearts of people that BTC is a scam, just as you can lose your money in fiat is the same way you can lose your money in BTC, the only difference is that stolen fiat is easier to track than BTC, especially when it is used with privacy solutions like mixers and CoinJoin implementations. I agree that the government loves control and that's why they'll never support a decentralized or private system.

There has been an increase in kidnapping for ransom in some parts of my country. Many people would have thought that these criminals would ask for cryptocurrencies as payments. But they always ask for fiat cash payments, and it is almost impossible for the police to track these payments. So, besides online fiat transactions, cash might be very difficult to track.

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Quote from: zasad@ on September 07, 2024, 08:40:34 AM

Quote from: pakhitheboss on September 07, 2024, 06:46:41 AM

As expected, Pavel Durov started making changes to Telegram after his release. Telegram disables ‘misused’ features as CEO faces criminal charges. This is how the government, under the disguise of law, makes enterprises work for them. If he had not listened to them, then he would have gone to prison for certain and would have lost more money in the name of penalty.

Okay, in other words, you're being told that the privacy of your correspondence may be violated. If you are not involved in crime and you are not a person to be monitored, nothing will change for you. It's even better because the scammers will leave the telegram.

"...you're being told that the privacy of your correspondence may be violated"

Since the original purpose of Telegram was to offer privacy for your correspondence that does seem like a really big deal. They had so much momentum and growth this summer, there was no chance the heavy powers in the world would not notice.

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Quote from: Fiatless on September 08, 2024, 07:31:40 AM

They would have banned Internet fiat banking because it is prone to hacking and used by scammers. The government wants to put everything under their control so that they can easily manipulate the people.

The media hardly talks about fiat fraud, it is always about crypto fraud, spreading fud in the hearts of people that BTC is a scam, just as you can lose your money in fiat is the same way you can lose your money in BTC, the only difference is that stolen fiat is easier to track than BTC, especially when it is used with privacy solutions like mixers and CoinJoin implementations. I agree that the government loves control and that's why they'll never support a decentralized or private system.

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Quote from: zasad@ on September 09, 2024, 03:42:10 AM

Do you really think there's any privacy in these phone messengers?
I would recommend you to listen to public lectures of IT security specialists.
Your camera, microphone, desktop in your phone can transmit your data at any time, and you talk about privacy.

Do you think that your internet connection is not being monitored? Unless you come out with a justified argument it is understood that you are being monitored after using multiple ways to hide yourself from the internet. None of us can hide from them but we have someone who was trying his level best and was better than WhatsApp. Frankly, I expected you to reply better when we discussed an application that helps us chat. I mean we have gone past those days when we could hide ourselves with VPN or use TOR browser as they as in the government have already found solutions to counter your lookout about this issue.

I hope you understand that Telegram was the one app that was supposed to not look into chats. By what he has done now every chat will be monitored and you can not hide from the government or those who are controlling the world. It is not good news for me but it will a bad news for your country as Russia will be the country to suffer more.

zasad@

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on September 07, 2024, 09:02:09 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on September 07, 2024, 08:40:34 AM

Okay, in other words, you're being told that the privacy of your correspondence may be violated. If you are not involved in crime and you are not a person to be monitored, nothing will change for you. It's even better because the scammers will leave the telegram.

The issue isn't about that. It's about why there is a push to penalize an entrepreneur and his product, which is based on privacy. Let's look at it this way: the people who invented the internet should be the ones in trouble before Durov.

The main problem here is that he was disloyal to the individuals who control the Western narrative. The UAE has canceled its plan to purchase Raffle because Durov was arrested. Many things are happening behind the scenes that we are not privy to.

Unfortunately, Durov has now accepted defeat by changing his policy. It is a clear indication that he has been forced to do so, as he is still not allowed to leave France until the court case is resolved in his favor.

Do you really think there's any privacy in these phone messengers?
I would recommend you to listen to public lectures of IT security specialists.
Your camera, microphone, desktop in your phone can transmit your data at any time, and you talk about privacy.

Fiatless

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on September 07, 2024, 09:02:09 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on September 07, 2024, 08:40:34 AM

Okay, in other words, you're being told that the privacy of your correspondence may be violated. If you are not involved in crime and you are not a person to be monitored, nothing will change for you. It's even better because the scammers will leave the telegram.

The issue isn't about that. It's about why there is a push to penalize an entrepreneur and his product, which is based on privacy. Let's look at it this way: the people who invented the internet should be the ones in trouble before Durov.

The main problem here is that he was disloyal to the individuals who control the Western narrative. The UAE has canceled its plan to purchase Raffle because Durov was arrested. Many things are happening behind the scenes that we are not privy to.

Unfortunately, Durov has now accepted defeat by changing his policy. It is a clear indication that he has been forced to do so, as he is still not allowed to leave France until the court case is resolved in his favor.

I totally agree that there are so many things going on behind the scenes hidden from the public. This is a fight against privacy. Telegram might be a hive for scammers but it is one of the platforms that is still promoting privacy. The government likes focusing on the challenges a product has rather than the good part of it. They would have banned Internet fiat banking because it is prone to hacking and used by scammers. The government wants to put everything under their control so that they can easily manipulate the people.

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Quote from: zasad@ on September 07, 2024, 08:40:34 AM

Okay, in other words, you're being told that the privacy of your correspondence may be violated. If you are not involved in crime and you are not a person to be monitored, nothing will change for you. It's even better because the scammers will leave the telegram.

The issue isn't about that. It's about why there is a push to penalize an entrepreneur and his product, which is based on privacy. Let's look at it this way: the people who invented the internet should be the ones in trouble before Durov.

The main problem here is that he was disloyal to the individuals who control the Western narrative. The UAE has canceled its plan to purchase Raffle because Durov was arrested. Many things are happening behind the scenes that we are not privy to.

Unfortunately, Durov has now accepted defeat by changing his policy. It is a clear indication that he has been forced to do so, as he is still not allowed to leave France until the court case is resolved in his favor.

Fiatless

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on September 07, 2024, 06:46:41 AM

As expected, Pavel Durov started making changes to Telegram after his release. Telegram disables ‘misused’ features as CEO faces criminal charges. This is how the government, under the disguise of law, makes enterprises work for them. If he had not listened to them, then he would have gone to prison for certain and would have lost more money in the name of penalty.

Twitter is been attacked in Brazil because Elon Musk decided not to sensor opposition. Pavel Durov is been persecuted because he decided to uphold privacy. From some indications, the government is gradually putting these platforms under their control. Telegram will have to make adequate changes to it's platform or risk more sanctions. The company is currently changing private chats and moderation rules to suit the standard of the government. Pavel had indicated his interest to keep fighting for privacy but it seems the fight is getting fierce. He would have to obey the government or lose his business.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on September 07, 2024, 06:46:41 AM

As expected, Pavel Durov started making changes to Telegram after his release. Telegram disables ‘misused’ features as CEO faces criminal charges. This is how the government, under the disguise of law, makes enterprises work for them. If he had not listened to them, then he would have gone to prison for certain and would have lost more money in the name of penalty.

Okay, in other words, you're being told that the privacy of your correspondence may be violated. If you are not involved in crime and you are not a person to be monitored, nothing will change for you. It's even better because the scammers will leave the telegram.

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As expected, Pavel Durov started making changes to Telegram after his release. Telegram disables ‘misused’ features as CEO faces criminal charges. This is how the government, under the disguise of law, makes enterprises work for them. If he had not listened to them, then he would have gone to prison for certain and would have lost more money in the name of penalty.

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