No worries.. US debt per person only trippled from 2004-2015 - page 2.

Erdogan

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Quote from: Gyfts on February 01, 2015, 01:35:33 AM

Quote from: Q7 on January 29, 2015, 10:15:34 AM

And who says bitcoin is not the solution to all these problems.

Well, Bitcoin can easily crash too. It happened a bit ago, no one can predict it going to complete 0. As far as Bitcoin being a solution for an economic meltdown, I just don't see that happening. It's no surprise Bitcoin isn't a mainstream thing, so for people to say, "forget fiat, hello Bitcoin" to a currency with fluctuating prices, I see that is least feasible. The US needs to stop getting so involved in foreign affairs. Keep manufacturing in the country and maybe we wouldn't owe trillions to China.

Bitcoin is the solution to unsound lending (lenders who have not saved, and loaners who are not willing or able to pay back). Lending reduced to a prudent level will be the result of the all bitcoin endgame. Obviously, because of this, governments will have to be smaller, and the idea of having a government at all will wane. Anarchy!! Now, get out of bitcoin and hoard your dollars, cowards!

Gyfts

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Quote from: Q7 on January 29, 2015, 10:15:34 AM

And who says bitcoin is not the solution to all these problems.

Well, Bitcoin can easily crash too. It happened a bit ago, no one can predict it going to complete 0. As far as Bitcoin being a solution for an economic meltdown, I just don't see that happening. It's no surprise Bitcoin isn't a mainstream thing, so for people to say, "forget fiat, hello Bitcoin" to a currency with fluctuating prices, I see that is least feasible. The US needs to stop getting so involved in foreign affairs. Keep manufacturing in the country and maybe we wouldn't owe trillions to China.

Erdogan

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Quote from: criptix on February 01, 2015, 01:12:29 AM

Quote from: Erdogan on February 01, 2015, 12:51:48 AM

Quote from: newIndia on January 29, 2015, 05:40:06 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 29, 2015, 05:26:11 AM

It is strange that that map says the US debt is $14 trillion. It is over $18 trillion by now.

I checked the map. It is saying that all the countries have some debt, even the green ones. I wonder, then who is lending ? I mean, is there any country without a debt ?

p.s. Sorry, I'm not good in economics.

[...]
All loans could in theory be paid back, extinguishing all debt. If the loaners are not able or willing to pay back, the loans could be written off as a loss, same result in the aggregate.
[...]

could you explain how this can work in a system operated under fractional reserve? (except for mass defaulting of the loans)

Fractional reserve does not change this (it just adds risk of nonpayment). Even I do not want a debt free system, although it could theoretically work for capital (only personal loans for consumption are strictly necessary, businesses could just have more investors in stead). The point is that there are lenders, ultimately those lenders are persons, and in the aggregate, non government persons are the net lenders to the government persons.

Hey, you clipped the anti government rant from my post, I shouldn't reply to you.

Erdogan

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A profound form of lending that is occuring in great volume right now, is the so called uncovered entitlements. It goes like this:

We have decided to give you a heart operation when you need it in the future (yes, we are that good). Since not everybody needs one, the smart thing to give you is an insurance for it instead. So here you are, the check for the insurance is already in the mail.

But wait... it is we who are the insurance company, so we just keep the money, in stead of we paying you and you paying back. That's more practical.

The money is not needed now, so we just loan them from the insurance department now and use it or give it to our friends to use. We will pay back sometime, promise!

criptix

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Quote from: Erdogan on February 01, 2015, 12:51:48 AM

Quote from: newIndia on January 29, 2015, 05:40:06 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 29, 2015, 05:26:11 AM

It is strange that that map says the US debt is $14 trillion. It is over $18 trillion by now.

I checked the map. It is saying that all the countries have some debt, even the green ones. I wonder, then who is lending ? I mean, is there any country without a debt ?

p.s. Sorry, I'm not good in economics.

[...]
All loans could in theory be paid back, extinguishing all debt. If the loaners are not able or willing to pay back, the loans could be written off as a loss, same result in the aggregate.
[...]

could you explain how this can work in a system operated under fractional reserve? (except for mass defaulting of the loans)

Erdogan

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Quote from: newIndia on January 29, 2015, 05:40:06 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 29, 2015, 05:26:11 AM

It is strange that that map says the US debt is $14 trillion. It is over $18 trillion by now.

I checked the map. It is saying that all the countries have some debt, even the green ones. I wonder, then who is lending ? I mean, is there any country without a debt ?

p.s. Sorry, I'm not good in economics.

The first thing to know about governments, is that the government is not the people. The state, that is they, not us.

Governments loan from individuals in the area that is extended to the point where the next government is stronger, also called a country. They also loan from individuals in other countries. (They also loan from other governments, but that is not a part of the answer to your question).

Using currency manipulation, the governments move value from lenders to loaners, including themselves, but that does not change the fact that there is a lender somewhere for each loan.

All loans could in theory be paid back, extinguishing all debt. If the loaners are not able or willing to pay back, the loans could be written off as a loss, same result in the aggregate.

tl;dr Individuals are net lenders to governments.

evok3d

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The Protocol for the Audience Economy

LOL

And people are happy that the USD value has gone up!

I wonder what will happen after the ride is on the way down? Hopefully they can back the print of money with something worthy.

etoque

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Quote from: knight22 on January 31, 2015, 12:55:49 PM

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on January 31, 2015, 12:38:31 PM

Quote from: superresistant on January 29, 2015, 04:38:27 PM

I can't wait for the big collapse. I'm loading my popcorn stock.

hopefully you have enough savings because you will be unemployed then.

----------

the US can pay any debt at any time:

Yup, with more debts.

ahah

knight22

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--------------->¿?

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on January 31, 2015, 12:38:31 PM

Quote from: superresistant on January 29, 2015, 04:38:27 PM

I can't wait for the big collapse. I'm loading my popcorn stock.

hopefully you have enough savings because you will be unemployed then.

----------

the US can pay any debt at any time:

Yup, with more debts.

LiteCoinGuy

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In Satoshi I Trust

Quote from: superresistant on January 31, 2015, 12:42:48 PM

Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on January 31, 2015, 12:38:31 PM

Quote from: superresistant on January 29, 2015, 04:38:27 PM

I can't wait for the big collapse. I'm loading my popcorn stock.

hopefully you have enough savings because you will be unemployed then.

Impossible, I'm self-employed Wink

hopefully in a survival&outdoor-business Wink

superresistant

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Quote from: LiteCoinGuy on January 31, 2015, 12:38:31 PM

Quote from: superresistant on January 29, 2015, 04:38:27 PM

I can't wait for the big collapse. I'm loading my popcorn stock.

hopefully you have enough savings because you will be unemployed then.

Not relevant, I'm self-employed Wink

LiteCoinGuy

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In Satoshi I Trust

Quote from: superresistant on January 29, 2015, 04:38:27 PM

I can't wait for the big collapse. I'm loading my popcorn stock.

hopefully you have enough savings because you will be unemployed then.

----------

the US can pay any debt at any time:

picolo

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Quote from: superresistant on January 29, 2015, 04:38:27 PM

I can't wait for the big collapse. I'm loading my popcorn stock.

It will be good because deceiption and lies will be out and they can hopefully reconstruct on better grounds.

JessicaSe

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the most big countries has more debt, only africa seems green with low debt
USA,China,India are at highest level according to this chart

what you think, they will able to pay back or how much it will increase by 2020

knight22

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--------------->¿?

Paying back the national debt is IMPOSSIBLE. Unless we fundamentally change the system, just talking about it is delusional.

http://lisgi1.engr.ccny.cuny.edu/~makse/Modern_Money_Mechanics.pdf

Amph

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and they expect the usd to surpass the euro, how funny, usd is worth less than my toilet paper

hdbuck

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Quote from: Oscilson on January 30, 2015, 11:34:27 AM

The US will not repay the debt. So it does not matter how much debt it has. It can also inflate away the debt.

if they dont pay their debt, why should we?

thejaytiesto

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There's not a single country that can pay their debts, let alone the insane debts of countries like the US.

Oscilson

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The US will not repay the debt. So it does not matter how much debt it has. It can also inflate away the debt.

Elwar

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Viva Ut Vivas

Quote from: CoinCidental on January 30, 2015, 06:46:05 AM

Quote from: Elwar on January 30, 2015, 06:42:52 AM

Quote from: grendel25 on January 30, 2015, 02:56:33 AM

So what? A lot more people are buying their own homes too. Debt per person isn't really the greatest indicator.

When paying the interest on the national debt is more than our budget...it will cause some problems.

Current interest payment is $430 billion.

The proposed Defense budget for this year is $526 billion. We will soon be paying more in interest than for our national defense.

If some politician says they have some plan for fixing the budget and it does not include addressing the huge debt, they are feeding you a pile of shit.

what possible answer could there be to address a debt that size ? im intrigued which politician can pay off 18 trillion and what with and over how many years if if the interest alone is $430 billion and growing by the day ?

If Ron Paul were elected in 2012, we would be seeing budget surpluses in next year's budget which could be used to start paying down that debt (It would not be $18 trillion either).

Topic: No worries.. US debt per person only trippled from 2004-2015 - page 2. (Read 4430 times)