Not all educated are educated. - page 2.

TelolettOm

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Quote from: _act_ on November 14, 2023, 09:44:20 AM

...Mixers are seen to be used for illegal activities but the money in banks are not seeing to be used for money laundering and terrorism financing. Among the most fiats used for illegal activities, only little do the government and regulators know about. If there is no bitcoin or other coins and tokens, there will be illegal activities both online and offline and their scam fiat will be used for it.

Haters will always hate whatever they hate, for whatever reason they have to hate it. And they actually have their own reasons that are sometimes difficult to accept, and often they end in problems related to money and business. When we explain how good and ideal Bitcoin is, for those people who feel disadvantaged by Bitcoin and also don't like Bitcoin will always deny this, and will always look for reasons to continue spreading negative news about Bitcoin. So, no matter how hard we try to explain it, for those who really have their own hidden interests and strong reasons, it will have no effect.

So, don't let us be fooled by various wrong or random information from the Bitcoin haters who have existed so far. because we alone have received various benefits from Bitcoin, right? We already feel it and it really has a positive impact on our lives. After all, is there really something that is 100% perfect and without any loopholes or risks?

gunhell16

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Honestly, I'm wondering which mentioned made the title in relation to the topic at hand here. Is the title relevant to what
we're talking about here?

Does the creator of this topic mean that the uneducated are bankers and the educated are mixers? Then those in the regulated sector are like that, if you think about it most of the time, to be honest. They only see downsides—the ones where you think their thoughts are so perfect, but the truth is they are not. Because their brains are closed, it is unacceptable that more and more people are discovering that mixers are better at hiding individual data privacy. Also, the Fiat in the bank is also used for money laundering, so I hope others don't worry about it.

Z-tight

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Quote from: Forever101 on November 16, 2023, 02:34:00 PM

Mixer is good on its own if not for wicked people using it for bad purpose

There are a lot of tools that 'wicked' people use, including the internet, but you don't see the government seriously going after tools such as that, there is only one way i see all of this, and that's that it is an attack against BTC fungibility. Take note that BTC uses a public and transparent ledger, so that makes life very hard for money launderers, and the sum of money they launder is going to be difficult to trade in a p2p exchange, so most likely they will have to use a centralized exchange to convert their funds which attracts more problems, to avoid this, they'll just use other options like fiat.

mvdheuvel1983

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If you look at this closely, you would see that Swan is not the problem. First they are a bitcoin-only company so they cannot possible be against bitcoin the reason for their directive is just in compliance with the banking partners internal policies which they have no control over whatsoever. To avoid getting your account backlisted if you have an account with them, any you want to deposit directly from or withdraw directly simply do a couple hops before you do this. You send it from one Bitcoin address to another and you do that maybe two three four times and then do the mixing if that's what you want to do. That way, Swan can't shut down your account.

Forever101

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To some extent , I agree with you but here is my argument,it is possible and 100% sure to track money laundering in banks, however, it is impossible to trace mixed crypto after mixing. And I think they have had enough problem through that mixing of a thing before taking such step. As we, who are educated on bitcoins focused on the acceptance and usage of bitcoins. Other focus on its potential danger to human and the earth. We shouldn't be surprised when we have people not taking side with us, this check and balance help our world become a better place if it is done with the right mind

Mixer is good on its own if not for wicked people using it for bad purpose

dunfida

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Quote from: fuguebtc on November 16, 2023, 09:36:29 AM

Quote from: komisariatku on November 15, 2023, 10:42:49 AM

Quote from: fuguebtc on November 15, 2023, 09:57:18 AM

Quote from: komisariatku on November 15, 2023, 08:21:25 AM

Quote from: _act_ on November 14, 2023, 09:44:20 AM

Mixers are seen to be used for illegal activities but the money in banks are not seeing to be used for money laundering and terrorism financing. Among the most fiats used for illegal activities, only little do the government and regulators know about. If there is no bitcoin or other coins and tokens, there will be illegal activities both online and offline and their scam fiat will be used for it.

Yes, it's true, in the fiat system there are more money laundering activities, but they scapegoat Bitcoin for illegal actions. But I have a prediction that the fiat money system will sooner or later collapse and a new financial system will be born, and I think that system will be blockchain. I'm not sure they will adopt bitcoin but they will use a blockchain system like bitcoin.

The government always demands KYC, that's why they banned mixers. Because when they can't track someone's wealth then they can't collect taxes

Bitcoin has only been around for 14 years, while crime, money laundering and smuggling have existed for hundreds of years. The government just wants to get rid of bitcoin, but it's so perfect that they have no other reason to disparage it, other than to associate it with anything they can think of.

The old monetary system will soon be replaced by a new monetary system, that is almost certain. But whether they adopt blockchain or any other technology, they will still be centralized and the government will still be in control . So whether the monetary system collapses or not, centralization still exists.

Yes, the only thing that can be used to slander Bitcoin is to accuse Bitcoin of being often used as a money laundering tool because of Bitcoin's anonymous nature.

In a country's finances, decentralization is dangerous because the government cannot control the finances circulating in society. The government needs to exercise financial control to maintain financial stability, prices of goods and the circulation of money in society. Too much money will make the price of goods rise, too little money will reduce purchasing power. Usually the country will issue policies by increasing interest rates or lowering interest rates to regulate money circulation.

A country's financial and economic system is very complicated, I also want the concept of decentralization but on the one hand it can be dangerous because there is no financial control, choosing the wrong policy can have fatal consequences.

But even if they slander and defame it, they cannot stop the development of bitcoin , cannot stop people from using it. So I believe it's just a matter of time before they accept it . I remember many years ago, most countries were hostile towards bitcoin , but in recent years,many countries are gradually becoming friendly and accepting bitcoin to a certain extent. In the near future , it is inevitable that the whole world will accept and legalize bitcoin.

I don't expect governments to be able to use bitcoin to replace the current monetary system , but I do think that bitcoin and currency will be able to exist side by side, and bitcoin is an alternative.

There's nothing they can do in speaking about its further development and recognition by the masses. It would really be just coming into a time that awareness would really be that in global scale and they cant really be able to stop it. They could really be that able to throw into those issues or whatsoever things that they could do with Bitcoin on which they cant really be able to stop people on dealing with it and this is one of the
best thing on which its something that can be controlled knowing that Government doesnt really like on things which are decentralized. They would really be always having to say and could make out issues
as they do like or want.

People who are aware or does know about the truth would really be just simply ignoring with these things on which it would really be that so understandable that you would really be that
knowing on what they are really just trying to picture or want really to show on when it comes to those kind of exposure specially on negative ones. Yes, it could bring out that kind of false information
and impression to those newbies but sooner or later on which if the truth would be known then people would really be just normally be switching up
and there's no stopping with that kind of situation.

redsun114

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on November 14, 2023, 09:56:53 AM

Simply put, banks and fiat are part of the system and bitcoin was invented against the system. Now they are trying to control it as much as possible with more laws, more KYC, demonising mixers and trying to impose blacklists, and if they succeed bitcoin will become part of the system. It's like the ETF spots that everyone is waiting for the price to go up: what they are going to do is make bitcoin even more part of the system.

They can't make Bitcoin a part of the system even if they close down all the mixers and everything they say allows criminals to do their activities without getting traced, etc. What they are trying to do is to scare people away by showing that Bitcoin is not something good and it's used by criminals and those who use it might get caught for criminal activities which is not true but a lot of people would believe what they are trying to show them.

The system and the governments and their regulatory bodies will do everything possible to push Bitcoin away from their countries and people because they know it's decentralized and it gives them complete freedom for storing and using their wealth without them, the authorities, having any control over that.

fuguebtc

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Quote from: komisariatku on November 15, 2023, 10:42:49 AM

Quote from: fuguebtc on November 15, 2023, 09:57:18 AM

Quote from: komisariatku on November 15, 2023, 08:21:25 AM

Quote from: _act_ on November 14, 2023, 09:44:20 AM

Mixers are seen to be used for illegal activities but the money in banks are not seeing to be used for money laundering and terrorism financing. Among the most fiats used for illegal activities, only little do the government and regulators know about. If there is no bitcoin or other coins and tokens, there will be illegal activities both online and offline and their scam fiat will be used for it.

Yes, it's true, in the fiat system there are more money laundering activities, but they scapegoat Bitcoin for illegal actions. But I have a prediction that the fiat money system will sooner or later collapse and a new financial system will be born, and I think that system will be blockchain. I'm not sure they will adopt bitcoin but they will use a blockchain system like bitcoin.

The government always demands KYC, that's why they banned mixers. Because when they can't track someone's wealth then they can't collect taxes

Bitcoin has only been around for 14 years, while crime, money laundering and smuggling have existed for hundreds of years. The government just wants to get rid of bitcoin, but it's so perfect that they have no other reason to disparage it, other than to associate it with anything they can think of.

The old monetary system will soon be replaced by a new monetary system, that is almost certain. But whether they adopt blockchain or any other technology, they will still be centralized and the government will still be in control . So whether the monetary system collapses or not, centralization still exists.

Yes, the only thing that can be used to slander Bitcoin is to accuse Bitcoin of being often used as a money laundering tool because of Bitcoin's anonymous nature.

In a country's finances, decentralization is dangerous because the government cannot control the finances circulating in society. The government needs to exercise financial control to maintain financial stability, prices of goods and the circulation of money in society. Too much money will make the price of goods rise, too little money will reduce purchasing power. Usually the country will issue policies by increasing interest rates or lowering interest rates to regulate money circulation.

A country's financial and economic system is very complicated, I also want the concept of decentralization but on the one hand it can be dangerous because there is no financial control, choosing the wrong policy can have fatal consequences.

But even if they slander and defame it, they cannot stop the development of bitcoin , cannot stop people from using it. So I believe it's just a matter of time before they accept it . I remember many years ago, most countries were hostile towards bitcoin , but in recent years,many countries are gradually becoming friendly and accepting bitcoin to a certain extent. In the near future , it is inevitable that the whole world will accept and legalize bitcoin.

I don't expect governments to be able to use bitcoin to replace the current monetary system , but I do think that bitcoin and currency will be able to exist side by side, and bitcoin is an alternative.

Altryist

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Quote from: freedomgo on November 15, 2023, 09:53:39 AM

When we use a banking service, we have to comply with their rules, and I understand why they don't want our account to be associated with mixers because it will be hard for them to trace transactions. To ease their job, they require that all transactions we go through have a clear identity, either a person or a business.

This is quite simple to understand: if we use mixers, let's not use banks, as these two are in conflict. Banks promote transparency, and they advertise that they keep our privacy within their systems and with regulators. So, if we don't trust them on that, we can always go fully crypto with the help of mixers to achieve anonymity, although it's not guaranteed.

According to the logic of regulators, if you use mixers, then you have something to hide, but these may just be arguments to show Bitcoin from the bad side. I don’t see anything wrong with using mixers if I want to take care of my anonymity and this doesn’t mean that I’m trying to hide something, it’s just convenient for me. Anything that the government cannot control will be made out to be illegal, I can see that they would like to ban all mixers and would be happy with that.

dezoel

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Quote from: JunaidAzizi on November 14, 2023, 12:19:38 PM

Everything is clear and I know everyone knows that the government is focusing more and more on opposing Bitcoin. Before the invention of Bitcoin there was fiat currency and illegal activities were also done at that time, criminal and funding to them are done in fiat currency but the government blamed Bitcoin for all this. There were may be some illegal activities done in the past and was very minor but the government do not make it a base that is fully involved in illegal activities. The biggest fear of the government is that people are going out of their control because due to bank and fiat currency, they bound people but thanks to Satoshi he made independence from this system and now the government is trying to make Bitcoin centralized or make it notorious so that people will leave it.

They are only regulating it and at the same time allow crypto. We are going to be just fine as long as we can follow the simple rule that they impose. For me it's better than if we compare it before where they are totally against with it. Not that I'm defending them but no, they don't put all the blame to BTC. They know there are also other cryptos and criminals also use them.

It's just that BTC has a special feature which can favor more the criminals. That doesn't mean that most BTC users are also a criminal. BTC had still done something better, and even the governments can also recognize and thank BTC for it. There is no way that the governments can fully turn BTC into a centralized coin but if let say it's possible, there are still people who will use it.

Z-tight

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Quote from: Negotiation on November 15, 2023, 08:29:38 AM

Yes there are many companies that use KYC for the security of bitcoins.

Kyc is not a means of securing BTC's, centralized exchanges request for kyc so they would be able to give your data to LE should they request for it. Centralized exchanges sometimes don't even properly protect customers' kyc information, and their database has been hacked in the past, with people's information exposed and sold in the black market; and this can happen again.

Quote from: komisariatku on November 15, 2023, 10:42:49 AM

Yes, the only thing that can be used to slander Bitcoin is to accuse Bitcoin of being often used as a money laundering tool because of Bitcoin's anonymous nature.

BTC isn't anonymous, you can see all tx's in the blockchain, BTC is pseudonymous and because of its transparency it is not such a great tool to be used for money laundering, except for people who know what they are doing. Payment options like cash is more popular for money laundering.

Twentyonepaylots

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Quote from: komisariatku on November 15, 2023, 08:21:25 AM

Quote from: _act_ on November 14, 2023, 09:44:20 AM

Mixers are seen to be used for illegal activities but the money in banks are not seeing to be used for money laundering and terrorism financing. Among the most fiats used for illegal activities, only little do the government and regulators know about. If there is no bitcoin or other coins and tokens, there will be illegal activities both online and offline and their scam fiat will be used for it.

Yes, it's true, in the fiat system there are more money laundering activities, but they scapegoat Bitcoin for illegal actions. But I have a prediction that the fiat money system will sooner or later collapse and a new financial system will be born, and I think that system will be blockchain. I'm not sure they will adopt bitcoin but they will use a blockchain system like bitcoin.

Because fiat is traceable enough with its serial numbers, so upon investigation it can be easily track if it was used in money laundering, so they are using bitcoin to avoid getting caught because it is decentralized and there are many tools like mixers to delete its footprint across the blockchain though it is not permanently deleted, but vague tracks are enough to evade naked eyes.

Quote from: komisariatku on November 15, 2023, 08:21:25 AM

The government always demands KYC, that's why they banned mixers. Because when they can't track someone's wealth then they can't collect taxes

I mean it is understandable for the government to initiate centralization because it would be chaos if they would not. Imposing taxes is not even bad at all, it comes bad when they spend it to useless stuff.

CryptoHeadlineNews

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Quote from: _act_ on November 14, 2023, 09:44:20 AM

Why?

This:

Quote from: https://cointelegraph.com/news/swan-bitcoin-terminates-customer-accounts-crypto-mixing-services

Bitcoin services platform Swan Bitcoin warned its customers that it would be forced to terminate accounts found interacting with crypto-mixing due to the regulatory obligations of its partner banks.

And if I may ask, so how do these people intend to make this successful? How do they intend to know accounts that have been engage in Bitcoin mixing? Or do they intend to track the source of every Bitcoin been deposited on the exchange to know if it has been mixed or not, and then terminate those accounts, or how exactly. Because this actually prove to be of the reason why keeping funds on centralized exchange one of the worst decision anyone can ever make, as your right to total control and ownership of that coin has already been taken away from you from the very first day you deposited your coin on a third party exchange. Hence, non-custodian wallet remains the best.

Faisal2202

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Quote from: DeathAngel on November 14, 2023, 10:22:53 AM

These companies will continue to bend the knee to regulatory pressures, otherwise they won’t be permitted to do business in said countries. Don’t be surprised at anything they comply with after being told so by their masters.

You are right, companies have to comply with the government; otherwise, they will be forced to move out, just like the USA did with Binance, while Coinbase and Binance were sued by the SEC for the same case of illegal trading of securities, which was not considered a security by the SEC, so they sued both. I covered the reasons why this issue arose, but the thing is, they allowed Coinbase to continue providing their services while forcing Binance to move out.

The reason was the the same, Binance was not following the instructions of the masters, or maybe they might not be accepting them as masters, and they really did well. Although the the banking sector has been used for ML for a long time, they are just after BTC or mixers because they know their control over people's money is less than before, so they are going against it. You should check out the Patriot Act by FinCen, it will give you some idea of of what FinCen has on their minds.

Jchris50

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Quote from: _act_ on November 14, 2023, 09:44:20 AM

Why?

This:

Quote from: https://cointelegraph.com/news/swan-bitcoin-terminates-customer-accounts-crypto-mixing-services

Bitcoin services platform Swan Bitcoin warned its customers that it would be forced to terminate accounts found interacting with crypto-mixing due to the regulatory obligations of its partner banks.

And this:

Quote from: https://cointelegraph.com/news/swan-bitcoin-terminates-customer-accounts-crypto-mixing-services

Pritzker stated that the current political climate has put a lot of fear into the banking sector, with most banks simply refusing to do business with anything in crypto. Thus, for them to continue their Bitcoin on-ramp services, their custody partner has to interact with banking services governed by FinCEN regulations.

Especially, I do not expect people can be complaining about bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general that they are causing global warming.

You are right
Mixers are seen to be used for illegal activities but the money in banks are not seeing to be used for money laundering and terrorism financing. Among the most fiats used for illegal activities, only little do the government and regulators know about. If there is no bitcoin or other coins and tokens, there will be illegal activities both online and offline and their scam fiat will be used for it.

NeilLostBitCoin

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Quote from: _act_ on November 14, 2023, 09:44:20 AM

Mixers are seen to be used for illegal activities but the money in banks are not seeing to be used for money laundering and terrorism financing. Among the most fiats used for illegal activities, only little do the government and regulators know about. If there is no bitcoin or other coins and tokens, there will be illegal activities both online and offline and their scam fiat will be used for it.

Bitcoin often faces criticism from people who hold positions where they have to scrutinize it. They try to find flaws with Bitcoin in order to discredit it in public opinion, or even within their own country. They are afraid of Bitcoin precisely because it is difficult to trace, unlike money in banks.

I believe that both of you have valid points. This is why countries are trying to shed light on Bitcoin in order to reduce illegal transactions and have the ability to track such activities in fiat. It will be difficult for them to successfully illuminate or ban Bitcoin. Good luck to them!

komisariatku

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Quote from: fuguebtc on November 15, 2023, 09:57:18 AM

Quote from: komisariatku on November 15, 2023, 08:21:25 AM

Quote from: _act_ on November 14, 2023, 09:44:20 AM

Mixers are seen to be used for illegal activities but the money in banks are not seeing to be used for money laundering and terrorism financing. Among the most fiats used for illegal activities, only little do the government and regulators know about. If there is no bitcoin or other coins and tokens, there will be illegal activities both online and offline and their scam fiat will be used for it.

Yes, it's true, in the fiat system there are more money laundering activities, but they scapegoat Bitcoin for illegal actions. But I have a prediction that the fiat money system will sooner or later collapse and a new financial system will be born, and I think that system will be blockchain. I'm not sure they will adopt bitcoin but they will use a blockchain system like bitcoin.

The government always demands KYC, that's why they banned mixers. Because when they can't track someone's wealth then they can't collect taxes

Bitcoin has only been around for 14 years, while crime, money laundering and smuggling have existed for hundreds of years. The government just wants to get rid of bitcoin, but it's so perfect that they have no other reason to disparage it, other than to associate it with anything they can think of.

The old monetary system will soon be replaced by a new monetary system, that is almost certain. But whether they adopt blockchain or any other technology, they will still be centralized and the government will still be in control . So whether the monetary system collapses or not, centralization still exists.

Yes, the only thing that can be used to slander Bitcoin is to accuse Bitcoin of being often used as a money laundering tool because of Bitcoin's anonymous nature.

In a country's finances, decentralization is dangerous because the government cannot control the finances circulating in society. The government needs to exercise financial control to maintain financial stability, prices of goods and the circulation of money in society. Too much money will make the price of goods rise, too little money will reduce purchasing power. Usually the country will issue policies by increasing interest rates or lowering interest rates to regulate money circulation.

A country's financial and economic system is very complicated, I also want the concept of decentralization but on the one hand it can be dangerous because there is no financial control, choosing the wrong policy can have fatal consequences.

Dunamisx

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Quote from: komisariatku on November 15, 2023, 08:21:25 AM

Quote from: _act_ on November 14, 2023, 09:44:20 AM

Mixers are seen to be used for illegal activities but the money in banks are not seeing to be used for money laundering and terrorism financing. Among the most fiats used for illegal activities, only little do the government and regulators know about. If there is no bitcoin or other coins and tokens, there will be illegal activities both online and offline and their scam fiat will be used for it.

Yes, it's true, in the fiat system there are more money laundering activities, but they scapegoat Bitcoin for illegal actions. But I have a prediction that the fiat money system will sooner or later collapse and a new financial system will be born, and I think that system will be blockchain. I'm not sure they will adopt bitcoin but they will use a blockchain system like bitcoin.

The government always demands KYC, that's why they banned mixers. Because when they can't track someone's wealth then they can't collect taxes

Let the fover keep pretending to us that fiat is not an illegal means of money laundering when they were all there causing the loots around, but with bitcoin p2p network, they cannot soy to know about anyone's financial stand, so they will assume that mixers that provides for more anonymity is their enemy as well because they cannot know the financial worth of every users, that is why they are dealing heavily with some of these mixers neglecting the banks which are worst.

fuguebtc

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Quote from: komisariatku on November 15, 2023, 08:21:25 AM

Quote from: _act_ on November 14, 2023, 09:44:20 AM

Mixers are seen to be used for illegal activities but the money in banks are not seeing to be used for money laundering and terrorism financing. Among the most fiats used for illegal activities, only little do the government and regulators know about. If there is no bitcoin or other coins and tokens, there will be illegal activities both online and offline and their scam fiat will be used for it.

Yes, it's true, in the fiat system there are more money laundering activities, but they scapegoat Bitcoin for illegal actions. But I have a prediction that the fiat money system will sooner or later collapse and a new financial system will be born, and I think that system will be blockchain. I'm not sure they will adopt bitcoin but they will use a blockchain system like bitcoin.

The government always demands KYC, that's why they banned mixers. Because when they can't track someone's wealth then they can't collect taxes

Bitcoin has only been around for 14 years, while crime, money laundering and smuggling have existed for hundreds of years. The government just wants to get rid of bitcoin, but it's so perfect that they have no other reason to disparage it, other than to associate it with anything they can think of.

The old monetary system will soon be replaced by a new monetary system, that is almost certain. But whether they adopt blockchain or any other technology, they will still be centralized and the government will still be in control . So whether the monetary system collapses or not, centralization still exists.

moneystery

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bitcoin is like a competitor to banking, they don't want the ecosystem to develop further than that, so in various ways they use it to attack bitcoin which has been decentralized and intervention-free. but it is unfortunate that the more they suppress bitcoin, the bigger bitcoin will be in the future.

how many years have they been playing this kind of narrative? and what are the results? nothing, even bitcoin is still growing and is predicted to make a new ath. so it's pointless to play out a narrative like this because people are getting smarter and they no longer want to be dictated to in their freedom to use bitcoin.

Topic: Not all educated are educated. - page 2. (Read 812 times)