Not your key not your coins is real, not just quoted. (FTX Issue)

Sarah Azhari

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Quote from: Bobrox on November 20, 2022, 07:19:41 AM

Right now better hold and save our assets in trustwallet or metamask and better with hardware wallet, were we have controlling with private ky by our self and possible withdraw when we want.

The problem when keeping all our crypto in a private wallet is needed many fees to have to transfer back and forth. Inflation has grown up day by day, we need a lot of cash to buy something, if we continue to keep it, we can't buy something, we can't buy some food because the gasoline price makes all important products more growing up.

The centralization exchange is like Hero for right now, many people don't know how to use p2p exchange like HODL HODL and Bisq.

so just be careful, I imagine many big centralization exchanges will follow FTX next.

Nrcewker

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It’s always best to keep your Bitcoins in a safe offline or hardware wallet. In your trading account, keep only the money which is required for trading, else definitely you gonna lose your all coins. Not your keys, so definitely not your coins. Basically what happens is that, when we keep money on the trading, we don’t have complete access on it. On the top of that, we also give access to our funds to others. So yes, we need to be very much careful with our funds.

Bobrox

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No doubt with your words about "not your key not your coins" based on happening with FTX exchange market, can't guarantee how must trusted with exchange market and the owner based on not have controlling by our self when withdrawing funds. Until one week with FTX exchange collapse not any positive respond yet about withdrawing fund process, actually I have bad feeling FTX will be next list scam exchange like Cryptopia actually after announcing with hacking cases difficult get back fund in FTX exchange.

Right now better hold and save our assets in trustwallet or metamask and better with hardware wallet, were we have controlling with private ky by our self and possible withdraw when we want.

Yatsan

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Quote from: wastagnn on November 17, 2022, 10:29:06 PM

Quote from: adzino on November 16, 2022, 10:54:47 PM

It is not the first some users lost their coins because they didn't have access to their own keys. Do you really think all those that used or stored their coin on FTX never head about "not your key, not your coins"? Do you really think that they were not aware that they don't own the coins? Do you really think that they didn't know something like this could happen? They knew all of it. But they chose to ignore. They thought that it could never happen to an exchange like FTX, but they were wrong. But guess what, people will still keep on holding their coins in exchanges or non custodial wallets and act like nothing will happen to them. Right now, yes people are withdrawing coins from exchanges, but give it a week or two, people will go back to holding coin in centralized exchanges.

This incident has taught us the hard way to avoid storing coins in inaccessible places. Exchanges are like banks, mostly centralized, and they have access to your account.
Do not leave your money on exchanges in case you lose them. Keep your crypto assets safe in a wallet that only you can access.

Same thing goes with banks, they have access to your account as well, this is why they can see if an irregular amount have entered to your account. The point here is that, storing crypto assets in an exchanger is not advisable simply because there are tendencies that it will be accessed by other people simply because it involves a device which can do something about your holdings once there are people who knows your private keys. You cannot do anything about it because we are all anonymous in this industry. Your money your rules but that is also your responsibility. Storing for a bit like 1 week is just fine but to put 100% of your assets and store it for months or years won't be.

wastagnn

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Quote from: adzino on November 16, 2022, 10:54:47 PM

It is not the first some users lost their coins because they didn't have access to their own keys. Do you really think all those that used or stored their coin on FTX never head about "not your key, not your coins"? Do you really think that they were not aware that they don't own the coins? Do you really think that they didn't know something like this could happen? They knew all of it. But they chose to ignore. They thought that it could never happen to an exchange like FTX, but they were wrong. But guess what, people will still keep on holding their coins in exchanges or non custodial wallets and act like nothing will happen to them. Right now, yes people are withdrawing coins from exchanges, but give it a week or two, people will go back to holding coin in centralized exchanges.

This incident has taught us the hard way to avoid storing coins in inaccessible places. Exchanges are like banks, mostly centralized, and they have access to your account.
Do not leave your money on exchanges in case you lose them. Keep your crypto assets safe in a wallet that only you can access.

Sarah Azhari

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Quote from: adzino on November 16, 2022, 10:54:47 PM

Do you really think all those that used or stored their coin on FTX never head about "not your key, not your coins"? Do you really think that they were not aware that they don't own the coins? Do you really think that they didn't know something like this could happen? They knew all of it. But they chose to ignore.

Look like playing an extreme job when knowing the risk but still ignoring it. Maybe because the top big 10 exchange is not mean haven't risk when investing. Each people have a purpose for what for his investment but sometimes doesn't know how to manage it when the goal has been achieved, after a tragedy happens, they feel regret but happens again in the next time, This type of person is very much like an exchanger enthusiast.

nurilham

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 11, 2022, 07:08:53 PM

The reason some people leave their coins on exchanges is because they are ignorant. Some people do not know the differences, all they know is that they want to buy and hold some bitcoin or any other crypto. Some people will even tell you that Binance is a wallet.

It is true that some people don't know the risk to keep their coins in exchanges, they think it is safe enough because it is the top exchange and used by many people around the world. Moreover, according to some hack cases that happened previously, the people got their refunds from the exchanges. This makes the people more trusted on the exchanges. But on the other hand, there are some people who know well the risks and they are not dumb. They keep their coins on the exchange because they are daily/weekly/monthly traders. Keeping the coins in exchanges will make them easier to sell the coins any time there is a pump, they don't need to send the coins from private wallets and they don't spend transfer fees. Sometimes sending the coins take a long time and it spends a lot of transfer fees. This makes people prefer to keep their coins on the exchanges.

Fatunad

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Quote from: Finestream on November 17, 2022, 02:51:51 PM

Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 11, 2022, 07:08:53 PM

Quote from: Sarah Azhari on November 11, 2022, 07:02:56 PM

There are already wallets where you can keep the private key with free and open source, I don't know why they don't think that. I don't know why they believe the exchange than himself?

The reason some people leave their coins on exchanges is because they are ignorant. Some people do not know the differences, all they know is that they want to buy and hold some bitcoin or any other crypto. Some people will even tell you that Binance is a wallet.

My advice is that if the amount to hold is large, cold storage is better (because it is secure and safer) than hot wallet that can be hacked. If cold storage wallet can not be created by newbies, they can get a hardware wallet that is open source.

Having cold wallet is one of the most secure storage methods so definitely, it’s way better than other wallets that are connected in the internet. Whether the amount to keep is small or large, it’s best to keep it in a private or in a cold storage. Not your keys, not your coins, this is really true as you don’t have to trust other wallets or exchanges, except from your personal one.

People had just made out decisions on using up online,exchange platform and other wallets which are centralized and non custodial due to some obvious reasons.It is really just they do really
make themselves really that confident when it comes to safety or security of their coins but to mind off on what are the things that happened in the past will really make you tell that its never
been recommendable on making them as a storage.Nothing beats out on a wallet which you do possess its keys.Its never been that recommendable on trusting up that
much and forget about security.

Finestream

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on November 11, 2022, 07:08:53 PM

Quote from: Sarah Azhari on November 11, 2022, 07:02:56 PM

There are already wallets where you can keep the private key with free and open source, I don't know why they don't think that. I don't know why they believe the exchange than himself?

The reason some people leave their coins on exchanges is because they are ignorant. Some people do not know the differences, all they know is that they want to buy and hold some bitcoin or any other crypto. Some people will even tell you that Binance is a wallet.

My advice is that if the amount to hold is large, cold storage is better (because it is secure and safer) than hot wallet that can be hacked. If cold storage wallet can not be created by newbies, they can get a hardware wallet that is open source.

Having cold wallet is one of the most secure storage methods so definitely, it’s way better than other wallets that are connected in the internet. Whether the amount to keep is small or large, it’s best to keep it in a private or in a cold storage. Not your keys, not your coins, this is really true as you don’t have to trust other wallets or exchanges, except from your personal one.

franky1

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Quote from: Marvell1 on November 16, 2022, 11:27:01 PM

FTX has more than 1 million users and many of them hold money from a few million to several tens of millions of dollars,

FTX was VALUATED as $32billlin
but thats not 32b of custodian held assets. thats a FIAT paper spreadsheet valuation based on the math of 1share price X total shares

its a meaningless statistic like marketcap is. its unbacked by real fiat

there were about at one point 12billion in customer assets deposited
which if you average this better measure. meant the 1.2m customer of FTX had an average deposit of $10k

that said. whats actually the case is there were a few whales that invested millions and alot of minnows investing less than $10k

there were less than 1000 people investing more then $1m
bit these names were big celebrity/big name people

and its these big names that made FTX suddenly a popular speaking point to mention

its big names not big numbers.

mtgox only had about ~24k customers
so FTX 1.2m is a steep amount higher victim base

but.. coinbase has 60m customers
binance has 26m customers

so in todays scheme of customer bases. FTX was not that high in customer numbers.. but it was high in popularity with say a couple thousand whales that have celebrity level reputations to retain

darewaller

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Quote from: Leviathan.007 on November 16, 2022, 02:49:53 AM

We all know this story is not new about the exchanges and the other similar companies where get your bitcoins and other assets and they guarantee you the security of your assets while the shiny promise seems good and tempting for most people there is also a chance for the people to lose all their bitcoins on their platforms even if the claim to be a trustworthy and well-known company. The place to hold your bitcoins is also inside your private bitcoin wallet where you can have access to your private key and recovery seeds.

It’s definitely an old story, I remember the very first one I witnessed was in 2014 and there was also mt.gox which was already a problem back in those days, and even earlier.

There is no way there is a good thing coming out of this exchanges getting hacked deal, and it’s too common which means that there isn't really a big problem at all if you could avoid it by putting your money somewhere safer. Exchanges have too much money, and I mean way too much, billions, which means that you should be protecting your money by just depositing and then trading and then withdrawing right away which would be the way to trade otherwise there would be a lot of trouble.

Marvell1

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Quote from: adzino on November 16, 2022, 10:54:47 PM

It is not the first some users lost their coins because they didn't have access to their own keys. Do you really think all those that used or stored their coin on FTX never head about "not your key, not your coins"? Do you really think that they were not aware that they don't own the coins? Do you really think that they didn't know something like this could happen? They knew all of it. But they chose to ignore. They thought that it could never happen to an exchange like FTX, but they were wrong. But guess what, people will still keep on holding their coins in exchanges or non custodial wallets and act like nothing will happen to them. Right now, yes people are withdrawing coins from exchanges, but give it a week or two, people will go back to holding coin in centralized exchanges.

FTX has more than 1 million users and many of them hold money from a few million to several tens of millions of dollars, they know what they are doing. That's exactly what you said, I believe everyone knows what they're doing with their assets, they're not stupid enough to not know what it's like to put money in centralized exchanges. The only problem is their choice.

The need for centralized exchange will never go away and people will quickly forget everything and once again they will look to centralized exchanges. Binance announced that they are holding more than 74 billion and in the past days there have been a large number of investors withdrawing to non-custodial wallets but it only stopped at 150 million, a very small number compared to the 74 billion that Binance is holding. That shows a large number of investors are still using the centralized exchange on a daily basis.

adzino

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It is not the first some users lost their coins because they didn't have access to their own keys. Do you really think all those that used or stored their coin on FTX never head about "not your key, not your coins"? Do you really think that they were not aware that they don't own the coins? Do you really think that they didn't know something like this could happen? They knew all of it. But they chose to ignore. They thought that it could never happen to an exchange like FTX, but they were wrong. But guess what, people will still keep on holding their coins in exchanges or non custodial wallets and act like nothing will happen to them. Right now, yes people are withdrawing coins from exchanges, but give it a week or two, people will go back to holding coin in centralized exchanges.

Sarah Azhari

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Quote from: ?? on ??

We know that. I mean, this is about the worst scenario. For example, we have 1 BTC in our personal wallet and want to convert 0.5 BTC to fiat through CEX; then an incident happens when we send our 0.5 BTC there. So there is no trusted CEX right? ^{If you have a problem with that phrase.}

that's a very rare occurrence, He always keep the money in the personal wallet around a year, and then suddenly have an urgent matter where need to cash it on the exchange. After the deposit, the exchange stops operating and crash without he can't do anything. This is very unlucky case where maybe 1 between million people.

Quote from: cheezcarls on November 16, 2022, 09:27:59 AM

Even if it’s the juggernaut Binance itself, I wouldn’t store my hard earned coins and tokens there in the exchange. Since I do not own a private key or seed phrase there, I wouldn’t have full custody of my assets. It’s just a gateway for me to convert to fiat via P2P.

P2P also need trust for each others, I ever scammed via p2p person, I send him the coin but he don't send the cash.

RockBell

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The majority of consumers are avoiding the burden of transferring from an exchange to the wallet they occasionally feel is easier, even if they are generally aware of the risk of maintaining their assets in an exchange. For instance, selling is a relatively simple process. However, failing to consider the danger involved could result in you losing all of your money, which would not be amusing. Looking at what is happening to exchanges right now makes it quite evident how unsafe it is to keep your money in an exchange, despite the numerous warnings I have seen, people still don't pay attention. Love this good work op.

cheezcarls

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Quote from: Sarah Azhari on November 11, 2022, 07:02:56 PM

That quote "Not your key not your coins" I just know work from today when looking how difficult to withdraw our money if we don't have the private key and seed.

As I know, this is not the first time the exchange or other platform hold customer money in their pocket. it's obvious de facto, it's our money but they can't give to us.

So my friend or the community, for this incident I hope you don't keep your money on exchange again, trust me!. this thing keeps repeating many time, we have to worry if happen in small exchange, but this very big exchange. So, are you sure in the next not happen in Binance, kraken, crypto.com, coinbase, and etc.?, I don't believe is not happen again on big exchange, because this already happened, believe me the big waves will come be much bigger

I am very grateful to save my small money to wallet where I have the key. I don't worry, I sleep well and have sweet dreams.

There are already wallets where you can keep the private key with free and open source, I don't know why they don't think that. I don't know why they believe the exchange than himself?

Even if it’s the juggernaut Binance itself, I wouldn’t store my hard earned coins and tokens there in the exchange. Since I do not own a private key or seed phrase there, I wouldn’t have full custody of my assets. It’s just a gateway for me to convert to fiat via P2P.

Always save to a non-custodial wallet (especially hardware wallets like Ledger Nano S) as you are having full custody of your crypto assets.

Leviathan.007

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We all know this story is not new about the exchanges and the other similar companies where get your bitcoins and other assets and they guarantee you the security of your assets while the shiny promise seems good and tempting for most people there is also a chance for the people to lose all their bitcoins on their platforms even if the claim to be a trustworthy and well-known company. The place to hold your bitcoins is also inside your private bitcoin wallet where you can have access to your private key and recovery seeds.

Ahli38

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Quote from: Sarah Azhari on November 15, 2022, 11:50:52 PM

Quote from: Ahli38 on November 14, 2022, 12:21:34 AM

However, I still keep some of my assets on exchanges like Binance because I still carry out my daily trading activities. but for long-term investment assets then of course I never keep it on exchange. because I knew that it was a reckless act.

I think it's ok if only for a moment such as swapping then immediately withdraw it, And, what the problem now is when you keep it for a long time in exchange like in some cases in several exchange.

exactly what I thought. But the fall of FTX seems to have brought many lessons and raised awareness among many people who previously had too much faith in an exchange. In fact, many people don't hesitate to store their bitcoin assets in large quantities on an Exchange. But now it seems that people have learned lessons and awareness. and now they began to do what they should have done long ago. i.e. keeping their assets in private wallets. and now the withdrawal of the number of bitcoins from the exchange to a personal wallet has increased rapidly even according to the sources I have read in the last 7 days the number of bitcoins that have been transferred from the exchange has reached 192,340BTC. The main outflows have been from exchange giants such as Coinbase pro (70,101 BTC), binance (58,689.42 BTC) and Gemini (13.270,80 BTC).
For more details, we can read it in many sources, but the source I read is this Watcher.guru & Coinglass.

Sarah Azhari

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Quote from: Ahli38 on November 14, 2022, 12:21:34 AM

However, I still keep some of my assets on exchanges like Binance because I still carry out my daily trading activities. but for long-term investment assets then of course I never keep it on exchange. because I knew that it was a reckless act.

I think it's ok if only for a moment such as swapping then immediately withdraw it, And, what the problem now is when you keep it for a long time in exchange like in some cases in several exchange.

Quote from: slaym on November 14, 2022, 10:36:27 AM

I read an article today that said, '15M/19M BTC are held in self custodial wallets'. https://cryptoslate.com/ftx-crash-pushes-bitcoin-to-self-custody-ethereum-switched-for-stablecoins/ . I wonder if there's a way to fact check that?

It's difficult when they don't prove the address. Just try to ask directly to the official, I am really sure they don't want to share it.

Fatunad

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Quote from: Smartvirus on November 14, 2022, 04:02:43 PM

Quote from: Sarah Azhari on November 11, 2022, 07:02:56 PM

That quote "Not your key not your coins" I just know work from today when looking how difficult to withdraw our money if we don't have the private key and seed.

As I know, this is not the first time the exchange or other platform hold customer money in their pocket. it's obvious de facto, it's our money but they can't give to us.

It's as real as that.
You know, exchanges are just like banks, most of them are centralised and so they call the shorts, just like banks. You might have an account number which is synonymous to an account number and a password just like you've got on exchanges too.
They are at right to limit your withdrawals, access to your accounts, demand compliances, froze your account, keep records on you with the the authorities if necessary and more.
It's truly centralized and you don't have access so, you've got to tread carefully. Try not to leave large amounts on an exchange. You identify the advantage you wish to benefit from, make use of it and your out.

Government could only touch up crypto transactions and making out some surveillance via these exchange platforms which we do know that they are regulated or centralized then expected that every
transaction on which an account make would really be not anonymous and this is the thing you should accept and be wary on the time that you had deposit into an exchange.
This is part of the risk and you should really be that prepared for whatever things that could happen on an exchange since we know that we dont possess it wallet keys then
everything that might happen will really be that in resulting for possible lost of funds forever which its not really that surprising imho.

Topic: Not your key not your coins is real, not just quoted. (FTX Issue) (Read 793 times)