Not your key not your coins is real, not just quoted. (FTX Issue) - page 3.

jokers10

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Quote from: Zilon on November 12, 2022, 04:55:42 AM

No exchange is above bankruptcy but CEXs cannot be avoided completely. Not everyone who got affected by FTX collapse are holders some might have moved their coin there for a possible swap and others for quick sell to fiat but ran out of luck. If they was a way to sell direct to cash in DEXs i think CEXs manipulations would have been a long forgotten story. Avoiding this exchanges would have been much more easier if there were better options because not everyone is conversant with Bitcoin has legal tender so many still see it as an asset because of its volatility and how about the aged in underdeveloped countries who sell in local markets how do they get paid in BTC so one will always have to swap to fiat to fit into the society the belong.

DEX and cash can be combined by connecting people in p2p deals. Main problem is that you can never believe someone totally anonymous in a p2p transactions and there is no way of safe proving that someone gave cash. So if you want to have a deal with cash you need to be prepared to lose your anonymity. And that's why DEXes don't work with fiat currencies: it is easier to use CEX if you lose anonymity anyway. And if you withdraw all assets just after buying, CEX is not so unsafe place to trade.

darkangel11

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Quote from: Antonas1 on November 13, 2022, 08:27:44 AM

This all means there is no trusted centralized exchange.

You guys don't understand a concept of a trusted exchange. If you send money to a person or a company it means you trust them. Ever bought anything on an exchange? If yes then it's your trusted exchange. That trust has some limits though.

You can trust an exchange to perform a trade for you and allow you to withdraw, but you cannot trust it to keep your money safe. Exchanges aren't meant to hold your coins for you and people forgat about it because it's convenient if you don't have to worry where you left your hardware wallet or if you remember your password. You can set windows to remember your pass and have an email recovery option and you're safe, right? No you're not! Use centralized exchanges when you want to exchange but then keep your coins offline! I've been using centralized exchanges for the past 8 years and never lost a single bitcoin.

so98nn

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Yeah, smoothly inserted into the system now and should be followed by everyone. I think it’s very important that at least forum members must follow this formula and tell the same to non forum members. This will slowly make bitcoin very strong in the coming days and on top of that it would bring less fraud, less scams and less theft of our own money from the exchanges itself.

Exchanges are just businesses who will look after their own good and quality service etc etc remains only in the book of rules. Follow your own wallets and enjoy the decentralisation. :-)

Antonas1

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Quote from: coinerer on November 13, 2022, 01:22:48 AM

The reason people use a centralized exchange is that if there is a dollar there, it's easy to buy and sell any coin from there at any time with no extra fees, but if you keep your funds in a personal wallet and you exchange it from the DEX. If you want then your fee will be cut more and to avoid this extra fee most people use centralized exchange but it is a risky thing many will never think but after the incident of FTX crash everyone will be careful to keep their dollars in CEX and Think twice . so if someone want to hold there coins then they should use hardware wallet which will safe there fund as well

This all means there is no trusted centralized exchange. The only problem is, converting bitcoins to fiat or trading bitcoin is very important to many people (that's a fact). Unfortunately, we have to be connected to one of the CEXs to do it, while the DEX can't help us with that thing. Any solution for that?

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Quote from: BitDane on November 12, 2022, 04:56:11 PM

Quote from: Zilon on November 12, 2022, 04:55:42 AM

No exchange is above bankruptcy but CEXs cannot be avoided completely.

I agree with you, any company can go bankrupt but CEX is somehow important in cryptocurrency trading so people who are into trading different cryptocurrency would gladly use centralized exchanges. Although centralized exchange may got hack or get bankrupt, there are already safety measure for this kind of event and it is very simple, it is by not keeping our funds in any centralized exchanges. Only put the cryptocurrency that is for trade and withdraw after the successful trade.

We can only use some measures like you mentioned to reduce the risk, we can't help but use the centralized exchange, I think we have no other solution. There are a lot of people on this forum who hate centralized exchanges, nothing wrong with that but they are long term holders not day traders or P2P traders. Without centralized exchanges there would be no day traders, a market without this piece would be like a dying market. CEX will still be there, there will be an exchange to replace FTX and we will still use them, but be more careful as you say.

Henrobakkara

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Quote from: Sarah Azhari on November 11, 2022, 07:02:56 PM

That quote "Not your key not your coins" I just know work from today when looking how difficult to withdraw our money if we don't have the private key and seed.

As I know, this is not the first time the exchange or other platform hold customer money in their pocket. it's obvious de facto, it's our money but they can't give to us.

So my friend or the community, for this incident I hope you don't keep your money on exchange again, trust me!. this thing keeps repeating many time, we have to worry if happen in small exchange, but this very big exchange. So, are you sure in the next not happen in Binance, kraken, crypto.com, coinbase, and etc.?, I don't believe is not happen again on big exchange, because this already happened, believe me the big waves will come be much bigger

I am very grateful to save my small money to wallet where I have the key. I don't worry, I sleep well and have sweet dreams.

There are already wallets where you can keep the private key with free and open source, I don't know why they don't think that. I don't know why they believe the exchange than himself?

I agree and I don think this can be over-emphasized any further. I really don't see the need to have your crypto held in the exchange wallets, especially for those investors with quite an amount of volume. Does it mean they don't understand and have not heard of incidents with crypto exchange hacks previously or do they just believe it can not happen to them? Any investor that has that amount of funds for investment should be able to obtain a hardware wallet to hold your investment off the exchange wallets.
I guess this just continues to prove how some investors can be lackadaisical about being informed about their investment and doing the needful.

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Quote from: dimonstration on November 12, 2022, 11:47:50 AM

Based on what I understand on FTX current situation. User can still get there funds once the FTX manage to file for bankruptcy to liquidate there assets for paying back customer money. Even Mt Gox is now paying back there customers after a long year while FTX is a regulated exchange on US which means users is protected by the law and has a chance to claim back there funds.

But the inconvenience of can’t use your money out of exchange is frustrating and the chance to wait for a long time just to claim it like Mt Gox all over again.

What you say is true, but unfortunately FTX is only registered for business in the US so US users will definitely be protected by law, so they will get their assets back. But in other countries the chance of getting it back will be very low, they will be compensated if FTX can afford it and FTX really wants to return the assets to them, otherwise users cannot sue or be protected by law.

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The reason people use a centralized exchange is that if there is a dollar there, it's easy to buy and sell any coin from there at any time with no extra fees, but if you keep your funds in a personal wallet and you exchange it from the DEX. If you want then your fee will be cut more and to avoid this extra fee most people use centralized exchange but it is a risky thing many will never think but after the incident of FTX crash everyone will be careful to keep their dollars in CEX and Think twice . so if someone want to hold there coins then they should use hardware wallet which will safe there fund as well

wxa7115

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Quote from: Odusko on November 12, 2022, 06:20:27 PM

Is so funny, how some cryptocurrency holders still trust exchanges with their money, how can you store a large sum of assets in an exchange where you can be locked out at any time with access to the wallet even as the owner?
How can u ever trust a third party with my money the only time I can consider using an exchange is when I want to trade one token for another other and I take the exchange as a bus stop for my money and not a destination so I can't hold my asset on an exchange no matter what I rather hold in a cold wallet where I have total control of the wallet keys.

There are only two explanations that come to mind, the first one is that this is simply ignorance, those people should know better but they treat “Not your keys, not your coins” as some sort of slogan not to be taken seriously.

The second option is that humans have a huge bias when it comes to judging themselves, we see ourselves as more capable, skilled, intelligent, good looking and think we are above the average person, so people think that something like this happens to other people but it is impossible it will happen to them, and they will never believe it until they receive a reality check, but by that time there is nothing which can be done about their coins lost.

Odusko

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Is so funny, how some cryptocurrency holders still trust exchanges with their money, how can you store a large sum of assets in an exchange where you can be locked out at any time with access to the wallet even as the owner?
How can u ever trust a third party with my money the only time I can consider using an exchange is when I want to trade one token for another other and I take the exchange as a bus stop for my money and not a destination so I can't hold my asset on an exchange no matter what I rather hold in a cold wallet where I have total control of the wallet keys.

_BlackStar

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Quote from: Sarah Azhari on November 11, 2022, 07:02:56 PM

There are already wallets where you can keep the private key with free and open source, I don't know why they don't think that. I don't know why they believe the exchange than himself?

Do you expect everyone in this crypto to be the same? It's never really possible, especially about how they save and manage their finances.

While the best practice for asset security is to keep them in non-custodial wallets ^{[hardware wallets recommended],} this practice seems to be very often ignored by traders trying to profit in the market. I agree, but if you ask me I can tell that the majority of investors have good security practices for their assets.

BitDane

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Quote from: Zilon on November 12, 2022, 04:55:42 AM

No exchange is above bankruptcy but CEXs cannot be avoided completely.

I agree with you, any company can go bankrupt but CEX is somehow important in cryptocurrency trading so people who are into trading different cryptocurrency would gladly use centralized exchanges. Although centralized exchange may got hack or get bankrupt, there are already safety measure for this kind of event and it is very simple, it is by not keeping our funds in any centralized exchanges. Only put the cryptocurrency that is for trade and withdraw after the successful trade.

lionheart78

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Quote from: Sarah Azhari on November 11, 2022, 07:02:56 PM

, I don't know why they don't think that.

One reason is people being lazy, they are lazy moving their funds in and out of the exchange since it needs three verification processes at most in withdrawing the funds, email otp, mobile otp, and 2fa. For people who are in rush, they find it annoying so they just keep their coins on exchanges to avoid such steps.

Others are too trusty. They never think that exchange would be messed up and will freeze their fund. But there is always a first time for everything, so I hope those who experienced this FTX fiasco will learn their lesson well.

Quote from: Sarah Azhari on November 11, 2022, 07:02:56 PM

I don't know why they believe the exchange than himself?

It is a matter of trust not that they are doubting themselves. Once a person trust a platform he won't hesitate keeping his funds on that platform.

dimonstration

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Based on what I understand on FTX current situation. User can still get there funds once the FTX manage to file for bankruptcy to liquidate there assets for paying back customer money. Even Mt Gox is now paying back there customers after a long year while FTX is a regulated exchange on US which means users is protected by the law and has a chance to claim back there funds.

But the inconvenience of can’t use your money out of exchange is frustrating and the chance to wait for a long time just to claim it like Mt Gox all over again.

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Quote from: Lanatsa on November 12, 2022, 05:04:09 AM

-snip-
having in mind that they could bare up with the risk and on the time it did happen then this is where regret do really start out.We've seen lots of exchange hacks in the past but seems people doesnt really
learn up with those lessons.

Hacking in the past has been quite frequent and has harmed many people, including myself who have experienced it. Assets cannot be withdrawn and just disappear. and now it's happening again on the FTX exchange and SBF says they've gone bankrupt and there's still no good solution for FTX users. in the end, all will lose very much. This will be a regret as well as a disaster for FTX users. We really have to learn from past events.

Quote from: Lanatsa on November 12, 2022, 05:04:09 AM

I know on some point on pulling your funds on an exchange actively does really cost time and fees which would really be hassle and hindrance whenever you do make out some trading
activity but in speaking on minding about the risk than it's better not to make yourself tolerate risk handling.

Withdrawing assets gradually will avoid risks like today. Although it costs a lot it is highly recommended. Do not store all assets in a centralized exchange because we do not have complete control. The Exchange is only a temporary trading place and the main storage place is a personal Wallet which is fully controlled by ourselves.

Hopefully, we can all learn a lot from this FTX incident, we don't want something like this to happen again, here very bad for everyone.

Lanatsa

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Quote from: Sarah Azhari on November 11, 2022, 07:02:56 PM

There are already wallets where you can keep the private key with free and open source, I don't know why they don't think that. I don't know why they believe the exchange than himself?

This had always been real but people overtime do really get confident on using up platforms as their main wallets considering that these kind of events doesnt really often happen which means they would really be

having in mind that they could bare up with the risk and on the time it did happen then this is where regret do really start out.We've seen lots of exchange hacks in the past but seems people doesnt really
learn up with those lessons.

I know on some point on pulling your funds on an exchange actively does really cost time and fees which would really be hassle and hindrance whenever you do make out some trading
activity but in speaking on minding about the risk then its better not to make yourself tolerate on risk handling.

Zilon

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No exchange is above bankruptcy but CEXs cannot be avoided completely. Not everyone who got affected by FTX collapse are holders some might have moved their coin there for a possible swap and others for quick sell to fiat but ran out of luck. If they was a way to sell direct to cash in DEXs i think CEXs manipulations would have been a long forgotten story. Avoiding this exchanges would have been much more easier if there were better options because not everyone is conversant with Bitcoin has legal tender so many still see it as an asset because of its volatility and how about the aged in underdeveloped countries who sell in local markets how do they get paid in BTC so one will always have to swap to fiat to fit into the society the belong.

tranthidung

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Quote from: EarnOnVictor on November 12, 2022, 01:32:08 AM

No one should be surprised about the inability of exchanges to give withdrawals at lousy times

The case of FTX exchange recent days is a good example for bankrun in cryptocurrency market past few years.

Quote

A bank run occurs when large groups of depositors withdraw their money from banks simultaneously based on fears that the institution will become insolvent.
With more people withdrawing money, banks will use up their cash reserves and ultimately end up defaulting.

In other words, it is a run to exit a bank when there is only one exit gate but there are too many people which overwhelm ability of that bank to proceed withdrawal request.

Quote

it's pure business and a measure they must put in place to avoid panic withdrawals. And yes, our money might not be our own when it is with exchanges, they want to be like banks and financial institutions, but they are too small for that. It is our money that sustains them.

Panic withdrawal could cause any exchange to go bankrupt easily, and perhaps if they have allowed all withdrawals at this moment, there might not be exchanges anymore. This is because they don't have sufficient liquidity to back things up, so what do you expect?

When a bankrun happens, it is too late to stop that or to reverse the panic trend. After a death spiral starts, it is impossible to stop it.

Doan9269

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I just pity those already stucked in the current hack on FTX because it is too late already to make any decisions now and many have been warned already on several occasions to stay off centralized exchanges but due to indecision they remains there forgetting the risk it may place on them at any time, only the newbies that were not aware of the risk or earlier informed were those i consider to fall a victim because they just don't know, but it keep bothering me seing that bitcoin is meant for decentralized network but many don't know how to avoid being centralized with bitcoin.

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How many people draw the right conclusions after we sometimes hear about bankruptcy or revocation of licenses from some banks? What do they do next? They go to other banks. I think the same will happen after the FTX bankruptcy. I don't understand why there is so much trust in centralization when the idea of bitcoin is completely different. People are lazy and greedy, and for some reason, many people have a strong belief that all bad stories will never touch them. The impression that some people live in parallel worlds and do not see obvious things. People need experience to sober up.

Topic: Not your key not your coins is real, not just quoted. (FTX Issue) - page 3. (Read 784 times)