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Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 1070. (Read 2761640 times)

hero member
Activity: 600
Merit: 500
Nxt-kit developer
You? Of course you should not. It's designed for people thinking about secure messaging.

For secure messages I can use OTR for free.

You are trying to reinvent pay-per-message SMS idea. With whatsapp we get rid of it. Why cloning this awful obsolete thing?
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
Imagine a script that pays money to an account that forged the block the script included into. This is unpredictable with 100% reliability even with TF.
Also, why do we need to verify state? A completely deterministic workflow will lead to the same result on any blockchain instance.

Well perhaps there are some examples that the person "running" the script doesn't care - but if it was *my* script being run then I would want to be 100% certain of the state after it was run (before it was run) if at all possible.

I would also be worried more about potential forks if the state could not be predicted in advance.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Why should I pay anything for messages if I can chat @ fb? Messages should be used for technical staff and should be well-paid. 1.0

You? Of course you should not. It's designed for people thinking about secure messaging.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1055
0.1 Nxt as fee would be OK.
sr. member
Activity: 897
Merit: 284
Fee 0.1
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
0.1 NXT
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
I think it is *mandatory* that the state needs to be verified (otherwise how to ensure correct operation of the script?).

Imagine a script that pays money to an account that forged the block the script included into. This is unpredictable with 100% reliability even with TF.
Also, why do we need to verify state? A completely deterministic workflow will lead to the same result on any blockchain instance.
hero member
Activity: 600
Merit: 500
Nxt-kit developer
Why should I pay anything for messages if I can chat @ fb? Messages should be used for technical staff and should be well-paid. 1.0
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
U can't predict when ur "script tx" is included into a block. What if script relies on data from the most recent block? U won't be able to provide the correct hash.

Which is why you wouldn't be able to "run" said script until is *has* been included in a block (and I don't think it should rely on data in the most recent block either).

I think it is *mandatory* that the state needs to be verified (otherwise how to ensure correct operation of the script?).
full member
Activity: 148
Merit: 100
fee: 0.1
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
0.1 NXT fee
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
1) Create the "script tx" and pay a fee just based upon its size (am not sure where we are storing its state - perhaps that is going to be in some sort of AM).

2) Send a "run script" tx later with a fee and an "expected state hash" (if the nodes run the script and fail to get the same state hash then it would be an invalid tx).

U can't predict when ur "run script tx" is included into a block. What if script relies on data from the most recent block? U won't be able to provide the correct hash.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1004
.1 should be good.
full member
Activity: 193
Merit: 100
fee: 0.1

Only few will continue to forge for 0.01 at today's price, plus it's cheap to spam the blockchain.
Lower the fee again when price rises above 10$.

+1
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
Don't you think this might help ddossing the network? why node should add to block transaction which contains script that most likely won't be executed (coz it contains error or lack of funds or something else)?

Scripts will still pay "storage" fee. No problem with scripts that can't run due to errors or other issues.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
If it's a script, then u feed it to the interpretator. The interpretator processes all script commands one by one. If at some point it faces a problem (like division by zero), then it simply stops the processing.

Okay - so it *is* being interpreted (and presumably by each node that sees the new block also otherwise it could have been interpreted incorrectly).

I think you'll need a hash of the memory "state" after execution which should probably actually be provided by the person wanting to "execute" the script (presumably through a second tx).

To my way of thinking it would be:

1) Create the "script tx" and pay a fee just based upon its size (am not sure where we are storing its state - perhaps that is going to be in some sort of AM).

2) Send a "run script" tx later with a fee and an "expected state hash" (if the nodes run the script and fail to get the same state hash then it would be an invalid tx).

Or are you thinking along the lines of something more "automated" than this approach?
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Time to move to smaller fees. What MIN fee should we set? Remember that lower values make it cheaper to bloat the blockchain.

Discuss.

0.01 so we don't need to change again for looong time
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
And even if Cryptsy adds NXT...so what?

Maybe there will be a bit more redistribution from the top owners. But so what?

NXT is still only recognized in the Crypto world which is tiny.

I wouldn't expect to become very popular among ordinary people very soon. Let's continue our expansion to the world of finance, the rest of the world won't have another option after Wall Street guys start using Nxt.

a simple question without being in any way offensive

just in case we get into the world of finance, what makes nxt superior to say xcp, msc, bitshares and ethereum? we cannot handle high frequency trading, the others cannot as well..

when you give proper answer to this and it is technically possbile this should definetely be the way to go.

??
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
I guess I am missing something - how then does it fly? Surely it needs to be validated as to what it does by all (or at least the majority) of nodes otherwise how can we know it has been processed correctly?

When u see a new block u attach it to ur blockchain. Upon attaching u iterate thru all transactions in the block and analyze them. If it's a payment, then u adjust corresponding balances. If it's a script, then u feed it to the interpretator. The interpretator processes all script commands one by one. If at some point it faces a problem (like division by zero), then it simply stops the processing.

Edit: Of coz scripts must be deterministic. No random events that could lead to different results.
hero member
Activity: 715
Merit: 500
keep it simple, move decimal point by one order. Fee=0.1, but if possible, code right now all the necessary thing to move further by many more order the decimal point. Later with voting system in place, we can adjust lower fee.
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