Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 1668. (Read 2761645 times)

Quote from: Anon136 on January 13, 2014, 07:33:17 PM

Quote from: IveBeenBit on January 13, 2014, 08:03:41 PM

Anon I suppose you are familiar with adam3us achievements/background: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/adam3us-101601

He is very knowledgeable regarding zerocoin.
The zerocoin dev team ignore me - I think we should approach him to help us investigate whether zerocoin protocol is compatible with NXT PoS.

Can you approach him instead of me? You are more skilled in the mining algo and you would communicate better.

If he succeeds the bounty is 1M NXT paid by me (of course they could be paid partially/full from the 13M but we need to speed things up as much as possible)!

What do you think?

well my first thought would be that, for the same reasons the bitcoin devs rejected zerocoin, it may not be wise to implement zerocoin on this chain even if it were possible. zerocoin is extremely resource intensive and its not one of those things where that issue can be mitigated by only having a few people use it when they need it, zerocoin requires network effects. Its probably best for someone to clone nxt and put zerocoin on the clone chain and people who are buying drugs or hits can use that chain, and they can pay the exorbitant price for that, while normal people like us buying toilet paper and toothpaste can pay the lower fees for less anonymity.

zerocoin is not as resource intensive as it was before, I believe the devs said they reduced it by ~98%

also, NXT should welcome all transactions, no matter what its for. that is what will make the coin succeed.

zerocoin2 launching on May on it's own blockchain.
Anonymity is a must feature IMHO.
I thought the fact that transactions were faster in NXT (they are supposed to become even faster - instant) would be good for a possible 0coin adaptation (not so resource intensive or the effect more subtle).
The platform with the first distributed dark marketplace will be the winner - MSC, Bitshares, eMunie are too politically correct to do so. Only NXT and/or XCP could fill this gap.
There can be only one.

Klee, if a user had the option to send using either standard or anonymous (zerocoin like), couldn't a merchant simply deny transactions with that flag sent? If so:

The people that hate freedom... *cough* I mean, the people that scream about anonymous transactions don't have to accept them
The people that want to send it anonymously, well, they have that option

Win/Win?

Not sure I understood your second paragraph Embarrassed

The first paragraph refers to a known issue with mixers and/or I2P/Tor wallet clients (taint analysis) - the only solution is to make them compulsory to everyone...

I had an opportunity to talk with the Zero team this past summer when I was with Feathercoin. I asked if it would be possible to allow the user to toggle the option to utilize zero or send a standard transaction in the same client and they said yes.

Here's the issue I see:

Large merchant wants to accept CoinY
Large merchant is regulated somehow and can not accept CoinY because of the anonymous nature of the coin
Large merchant is able to reject any coins that are colored/tagged with anonymous feature
If customer wants to do business with large merchant, they can't toggle the anonymous option
Customer can use the same wallet to send a standard transaction to the large merchant
Customer has the option to use CoinY anonymously elsewhere

Yep, taint analysis.
Probably it is too late for NXT now too (as for ALL coins thus far)...

klee

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Of all the great new features that NXT brings to the table, my only complaint is that its privacy features suck. It's even worse than bitcoin because the client does not automatically make new addresses following each transaction.

Anon, I think you are downplaying a very important shortcoming that NXT has. Also, remember that Bitcoin would not be anywhere near where it is today if the Silk Road had never existed.

And Klee, thank you for offering the 1 millon NXT bounty for a Zero Coin implementation.

The whole point of the cryptocurrency revolution is to wrest control of our own money back from the bankers and our overlords. This means that I should be able to pay my own money to whomever I want with no fear of repercussions.

We need anonymity plus decentralized crypto/fiat exchange WITHOUT trusted third party (holy grail).

PeercoinEnthusiast

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

JustabitofTime - Co-Founder of CoinTropolis

Quote from: klee on January 13, 2014, 07:59:42 PM

Quote from: PeercoinEnthusiast on January 13, 2014, 07:56:39 PM

Quote from: Anon136 on January 13, 2014, 07:33:17 PM

Quote from: utopianfuture on January 13, 2014, 08:00:09 PM

Anon I suppose you are familiar with adam3us achievements/background: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/adam3us-101601

He is very knowledgeable regarding zerocoin.
The zerocoin dev team ignore me - I think we should approach him to help us investigate whether zerocoin protocol is compatible with NXT PoS.

Can you approach him instead of me? You are more skilled in the mining algo and you would communicate better.

If he succeeds the bounty is 1M NXT paid by me (of course they could be paid partially/full from the 13M but we need to speed things up as much as possible)!

What do you think?

well my first thought would be that, for the same reasons the bitcoin devs rejected zerocoin, it may not be wise to implement zerocoin on this chain even if it were possible. zerocoin is extremely resource intensive and its not one of those things where that issue can be mitigated by only having a few people use it when they need it, zerocoin requires network effects. Its probably best for someone to clone nxt and put zerocoin on the clone chain and people who are buying drugs or hits can use that chain, and they can pay the exorbitant price for that, while normal people like us buying toilet paper and toothpaste can pay the lower fees for less anonymity.

zerocoin is not as resource intensive as it was before, I believe the devs said they reduced it by ~98%

also, NXT should welcome all transactions, no matter what its for. that is what will make the coin succeed.

zerocoin2 launching on May on it's own blockchain.
Anonymity is a must feature IMHO.
I thought the fact that transactions were faster in NXT (they are supposed to become even faster - instant) would be good for a possible 0coin adaptation (not so resource intensive or the effect more subtle).
The platform with the first distributed dark marketplace will be the winner - MSC, Bitshares, eMunie are too politically correct to do so. Only NXT and/or XCP could fill this gap.
There can be only one.

Klee, if a user had the option to send using either standard or anonymous (zerocoin like), couldn't a merchant simply deny transactions with that flag sent? If so:

The people that hate freedom... *cough* I mean, the people that scream about anonymous transactions don't have to accept them
The people that want to send it anonymously, well, they have that option

Win/Win?

Not sure I understood your second paragraph Embarrassed

The first paragraph refers to a known issue with mixers and/or I2P/Tor wallet clients (taint analysis) - the only solution is to make them compulsory to everyone...

I had an opportunity to talk with the Zero team this past summer when I was with Feathercoin. I asked if it would be possible to allow the user to toggle the option to utilize zero or send a standard transaction in the same client and they said yes.

Here's the issue I see:

Large merchant wants to accept CoinY
Large merchant is regulated somehow and can not accept CoinY because of the anonymous nature of the coin
Large merchant is able to reject any coins that are colored/tagged with anonymous feature
If customer wants to do business with large merchant, they can't toggle the anonymous option
Customer can use the same wallet to send a standard transaction to the large merchant
Customer has the option to use CoinY anonymously elsewhere

klee

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Anon136 on January 13, 2014, 07:33:17 PM

Anon I suppose you are familiar with adam3us achievements/background: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/adam3us-101601

He is very knowledgeable regarding zerocoin.
The zerocoin dev team ignore me - I think we should approach him to help us investigate whether zerocoin protocol is compatible with NXT PoS.

Can you approach him instead of me? You are more skilled in the mining algo and you would communicate better.

If he succeeds the bounty is 1M NXT paid by me (of course they could be paid partially/full from the 13M but we need to speed things up as much as possible)!

What do you think?

well my first thought would be that, for the same reasons the bitcoin devs rejected zerocoin, it may not be wise to implement zerocoin on this chain even if it were possible. zerocoin is extremely resource intensive and its not one of those things where that issue can be mitigated by only having a few people use it when they need it, zerocoin requires network effects. Its probably best for someone to clone nxt and put zerocoin on the clone chain and people who are buying drugs or hits can use that chain, and they can pay the exorbitant price for that, while normal people like us buying toilet paper and toothpaste can pay the lower fees for less anonymity.

zerocoin is not as resource intensive as it was before, I believe the devs said they reduced it by ~98%

also, NXT should welcome all transactions, no matter what its for. that is what will make the coin succeed.

zerocoin2 launching on May on it's own blockchain.
Anonymity is a must feature IMHO.
I thought the fact that transactions were faster in NXT (they are supposed to become even faster - instant) would be good for a possible 0coin adaptation (not so resource intensive or the effect more subtle).
The platform with the first distributed dark marketplace will be the winner - MSC, Bitshares, eMunie are too politically correct to do so. Only NXT and/or XCP could fill this gap.
There can be only one.

I have to say I don't care much about the dark market. Mexico and Colombia drug lords would never use Internet anyway, then you only have some small-scale younf pseudo-intellectual drug dealers. It is not worth to ruin NXT's reputation for that market. See how bitcoin can grow after it escape the shadow of SR.

I would not oppose anon feature but generally I would not support any effort to draw in the dark market crowd.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like dark markets too but only a really anonymous (compulsory anonymous minting too) coin that will serve system D can replace Bitcoin.

I am with AnonyMint's analysis in this regard, he is borderline crazy but genius, check his posts...

IveBeenBit

sr. member

Activity: 449

Merit: 250

Of all the great new features that NXT brings to the table, my only complaint is that its privacy features suck. It's even worse than bitcoin because the client does not automatically make new addresses following each transaction.

Anon, I think you are downplaying a very important shortcoming that NXT has. Also, remember that Bitcoin would not be anywhere near where it is today if the Silk Road had never existed.

And Klee, thank you for offering the 1 millon NXT bounty for a Zero Coin implementation.

The whole point of the cryptocurrency revolution is to wrest control of our own money back from the bankers and our overlords. This means that I should be able to pay my own money to whomever I want with no fear of repercussions.

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: Anon136 on January 13, 2014, 07:33:17 PM

Quote from: PeercoinEnthusiast on January 13, 2014, 07:56:39 PM

Anon I suppose you are familiar with adam3us achievements/background: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/adam3us-101601

He is very knowledgeable regarding zerocoin.
The zerocoin dev team ignore me - I think we should approach him to help us investigate whether zerocoin protocol is compatible with NXT PoS.

Can you approach him instead of me? You are more skilled in the mining algo and you would communicate better.

If he succeeds the bounty is 1M NXT paid by me (of course they could be paid partially/full from the 13M but we need to speed things up as much as possible)!

What do you think?

well my first thought would be that, for the same reasons the bitcoin devs rejected zerocoin, it may not be wise to implement zerocoin on this chain even if it were possible. zerocoin is extremely resource intensive and its not one of those things where that issue can be mitigated by only having a few people use it when they need it, zerocoin requires network effects. Its probably best for someone to clone nxt and put zerocoin on the clone chain and people who are buying drugs or hits can use that chain, and they can pay the exorbitant price for that, while normal people like us buying toilet paper and toothpaste can pay the lower fees for less anonymity.

zerocoin is not as resource intensive as it was before, I believe the devs said they reduced it by ~98%

also, NXT should welcome all transactions, no matter what its for. that is what will make the coin succeed.

zerocoin2 launching on May on it's own blockchain.
Anonymity is a must feature IMHO.
I thought the fact that transactions were faster in NXT (they are supposed to become even faster - instant) would be good for a possible 0coin adaptation (not so resource intensive or the effect more subtle).
The platform with the first distributed dark marketplace will be the winner - MSC, Bitshares, eMunie are too politically correct to do so. Only NXT and/or XCP could fill this gap.
There can be only one.

I have to say I don't care much about the dark market. Mexico and Colombia drug lords would never use Internet anyway, then you only have some small-scale young pseudo-intellectual drug dealers. It is not worth to ruin NXT's reputation for that market. See how bitcoin can grow after it escape the shadow of SR.

I would not oppose anon feature but generally I would not support any effort to draw in the dark market crowd.

In a very near future, we would have a decentralized stock exchange, many financial instrument options. The arbitrary message feature would offer a lot of programming flexibility. There would be many new possibilities ahead without the dark market crowd.

klee

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Anon136 on January 13, 2014, 07:33:17 PM

Anon I suppose you are familiar with adam3us achievements/background: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/adam3us-101601

He is very knowledgeable regarding zerocoin.
The zerocoin dev team ignore me - I think we should approach him to help us investigate whether zerocoin protocol is compatible with NXT PoS.

Can you approach him instead of me? You are more skilled in the mining algo and you would communicate better.

If he succeeds the bounty is 1M NXT paid by me (of course they could be paid partially/full from the 13M but we need to speed things up as much as possible)!

What do you think?

well my first thought would be that, for the same reasons the bitcoin devs rejected zerocoin, it may not be wise to implement zerocoin on this chain even if it were possible. zerocoin is extremely resource intensive and its not one of those things where that issue can be mitigated by only having a few people use it when they need it, zerocoin requires network effects. Its probably best for someone to clone nxt and put zerocoin on the clone chain and people who are buying drugs or hits can use that chain, and they can pay the exorbitant price for that, while normal people like us buying toilet paper and toothpaste can pay the lower fees for less anonymity.

zerocoin is not as resource intensive as it was before, I believe the devs said they reduced it by ~98%

also, NXT should welcome all transactions, no matter what its for. that is what will make the coin succeed.

zerocoin2 launching on May on it's own blockchain.
Anonymity is a must feature IMHO.
I thought the fact that transactions were faster in NXT (they are supposed to become even faster - instant) would be good for a possible 0coin adaptation (not so resource intensive or the effect more subtle).
The platform with the first distributed dark marketplace will be the winner - MSC, Bitshares, eMunie are too politically correct to do so. Only NXT and/or XCP could fill this gap.
There can be only one.

Klee, if a user had the option to send using either standard or anonymous (zerocoin like), couldn't a merchant simply deny transactions with that flag sent? If so:

The people that hate freedom... *cough* I mean, the people that scream about anonymous transactions don't have to accept them
The people that want to send it anonymously, well, they have that option

Win/Win?

Not sure I understood your second paragraph Embarrassed

The first paragraph refers to a known issue with mixers and/or I2P/Tor wallet clients (taint analysis) - the only solution is to make them compulsory to everyone...

PeercoinEnthusiast

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

JustabitofTime - Co-Founder of CoinTropolis

Quote from: Anon136 on January 13, 2014, 07:33:17 PM

Anon I suppose you are familiar with adam3us achievements/background: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/adam3us-101601

He is very knowledgeable regarding zerocoin.
The zerocoin dev team ignore me - I think we should approach him to help us investigate whether zerocoin protocol is compatible with NXT PoS.

Can you approach him instead of me? You are more skilled in the mining algo and you would communicate better.

If he succeeds the bounty is 1M NXT paid by me (of course they could be paid partially/full from the 13M but we need to speed things up as much as possible)!

What do you think?

well my first thought would be that, for the same reasons the bitcoin devs rejected zerocoin, it may not be wise to implement zerocoin on this chain even if it were possible. zerocoin is extremely resource intensive and its not one of those things where that issue can be mitigated by only having a few people use it when they need it, zerocoin requires network effects. Its probably best for someone to clone nxt and put zerocoin on the clone chain and people who are buying drugs or hits can use that chain, and they can pay the exorbitant price for that, while normal people like us buying toilet paper and toothpaste can pay the lower fees for less anonymity.

zerocoin is not as resource intensive as it was before, I believe the devs said they reduced it by ~98%

also, NXT should welcome all transactions, no matter what its for. that is what will make the coin succeed.

zerocoin2 launching on May on it's own blockchain.
Anonymity is a must feature IMHO.
I thought the fact that transactions were faster in NXT (they are supposed to become even faster - instant) would be good for a possible 0coin adaptation (not so resource intensive or the effect more subtle).
The platform with the first distributed dark marketplace will be the winner - MSC, Bitshares, eMunie are too politically correct to do so. Only NXT and/or XCP could fill this gap.
There can be only one.

Klee, if a user had the option to send using either standard or anonymous (zerocoin like), couldn't a merchant simply deny transactions with that flag sent? If so:

The people that hate freedom... *cough* I mean, the people that scream about anonymous transactions don't have to accept them
The people that want to send it anonymously, well, they have that option

Win/Win?

klee

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Anon136 on January 13, 2014, 07:33:17 PM

Anon I suppose you are familiar with adam3us achievements/background: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/adam3us-101601

He is very knowledgeable regarding zerocoin.
The zerocoin dev team ignore me - I think we should approach him to help us investigate whether zerocoin protocol is compatible with NXT PoS.

Can you approach him instead of me? You are more skilled in the mining algo and you would communicate better.

If he succeeds the bounty is 1M NXT paid by me (of course they could be paid partially/full from the 13M but we need to speed things up as much as possible)!

What do you think?

well my first thought would be that, for the same reasons the bitcoin devs rejected zerocoin, it may not be wise to implement zerocoin on this chain even if it were possible. zerocoin is extremely resource intensive and its not one of those things where that issue can be mitigated by only having a few people use it when they need it, zerocoin requires network effects. Its probably best for someone to clone nxt and put zerocoin on the clone chain and people who are buying drugs or hits can use that chain, and they can pay the exorbitant price for that, while normal people like us buying toilet paper and toothpaste can pay the lower fees for less anonymity.

zerocoin is not as resource intensive as it was before, I believe the devs said they reduced it by ~98%

also, NXT should welcome all transactions, no matter what its for. that is what will make the coin succeed.

zerocoin2 launching on May on it's own blockchain.
Anonymity is a must feature IMHO.
I thought the fact that transactions were faster in NXT (they are supposed to become even faster - instant) would be good for a possible 0coin adaptation (not so resource intensive or the effect more subtle).
The platform with the first distributed dark marketplace will be the winner - MSC, Bitshares, eMunie are too politically correct to do so. Only NXT and/or XCP could fill this gap.
There can be only one.

PeercoinEnthusiast

full member

Activity: 126

Merit: 100

JustabitofTime - Co-Founder of CoinTropolis

Quote from: Anon136 on January 13, 2014, 07:33:17 PM

Quote from: Anon136 on January 13, 2014, 07:33:17 PM

Anon I suppose you are familiar with adam3us achievements/background: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/adam3us-101601

He is very knowledgeable regarding zerocoin.
The zerocoin dev team ignore me - I think we should approach him to help us investigate whether zerocoin protocol is compatible with NXT PoS.

Can you approach him instead of me? You are more skilled in the mining algo and you would communicate better.

If he succeeds the bounty is 1M NXT paid by me (of course they could be paid partially/full from the 13M but we need to speed things up as much as possible)!

What do you think?

well my first thought would be that, for the same reasons the bitcoin devs rejected zerocoin, it may not be wise to implement zerocoin on this chain even if it were possible. zerocoin is extremely resource intensive and its not one of those things where that issue can be mitigated by only having a few people use it when they need it, zerocoin requires network effects. Its probably best for someone to clone nxt and put zerocoin on the clone chain and people who are buying drugs or hits can use that chain, and they can pay the exorbitant price for that, while normal people like us buying toilet paper and toothpaste can pay the lower fees for less anonymity.

zerocoin is not as resource intensive as it was before, I believe the devs said they reduced it by ~98%

also, NXT should welcome all transactions, no matter what its for. that is what will make the coin succeed.

Exactly. In the client there could be a checkbox for 'anonymous transaction' that would utilize something like Zero. There, everyone is happy.

klee

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Anon136 on January 13, 2014, 07:33:17 PM

Anon I suppose you are familiar with adam3us achievements/background: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/adam3us-101601

He is very knowledgeable regarding zerocoin.
The zerocoin dev team ignore me - I think we should approach him to help us investigate whether zerocoin protocol is compatible with NXT PoS.

Can you approach him instead of me? You are more skilled in the mining algo and you would communicate better.

If he succeeds the bounty is 1M NXT paid by me (of course they could be paid partially/full from the 13M but we need to speed things up as much as possible)!

What do you think?

well my first thought would be that, for the same reasons the bitcoin devs rejected zerocoin, it may not be wise to implement zerocoin on this chain even if it were possible. zerocoin is extremely resource intensive and its not one of those things where that issue can be mitigated by only having a few people use it when they need it, zerocoin requires network effects. Its probably best for someone to clone nxt and put zerocoin on the clone chain and people who are buying drugs or hits can use that chain, and they can pay the exorbitant price for that, while normal people like us buying toilet paper and toothpaste can pay the lower fees for less anonymity.

Taint analysis.

xyzzyx

sr. member

Activity: 490

Merit: 250

I don't really come from outer space.

Its probably best for someone to clone nxt and put zerocoin on the clone chain and people who are buying drugs or hits can use that chain, and they can pay the exorbitant price for that, while normal people like us buying toilet paper and toothpaste can pay the lower fees for less anonymity.

+1

Edit: Oh, an there's this:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2014/01/13/bitcoin-anonymity-upgrade-zerocoin-to-become-its-own-cryptocurrency/

Patel

legendary

Activity: 1320

Merit: 1007

Quote from: Anon136 on January 13, 2014, 07:33:17 PM

Anon I suppose you are familiar with adam3us achievements/background: https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/adam3us-101601

He is very knowledgeable regarding zerocoin.
The zerocoin dev team ignore me - I think we should approach him to help us investigate whether zerocoin protocol is compatible with NXT PoS.

Can you approach him instead of me? You are more skilled in the mining algo and you would communicate better.

If he succeeds the bounty is 1M NXT paid by me (of course they could be paid partially/full from the 13M but we need to speed things up as much as possible)!

What do you think?

well my first thought would be that, for the same reasons the bitcoin devs rejected zerocoin, it may not be wise to implement zerocoin on this chain even if it were possible. zerocoin is extremely resource intensive and its not one of those things where that issue can be mitigated by only having a few people use it when they need it, zerocoin requires network effects. Its probably best for someone to clone nxt and put zerocoin on the clone chain and people who are buying drugs or hits can use that chain, and they can pay the exorbitant price for that, while normal people like us buying toilet paper and toothpaste can pay the lower fees for less anonymity.

zerocoin is not as resource intensive as it was before, I believe the devs said they reduced it by ~98%

also, NXT should welcome all transactions, no matter what its for. that is what will make the coin succeed.

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217