NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 2346.

xibeijan

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Quote from: 2Kool4Skewl on December 20, 2013, 03:11:39 AM

Quote from: xibeijan on December 20, 2013, 03:08:05 AM

Why is coinmarketcap showing 999,997,987 NXT instead of 1B NXT?

Someone sent 2013 Nxt back to the genesis account, thus destroying them.

Cool idea, but doesn't anyone have the keys to the genesis account? Or, does the software reject transactions coming from that account?

What about all the unclaimed NXT? Is that being destroyed also?

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: EmoneyRu on December 20, 2013, 03:23:50 AM

What would happen if I same run api query to register alias N-times from one account? I'll loose (N-1) coins?

Yes.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: Anon136 on December 20, 2013, 03:03:53 AM

All you would have to do is brute force the creation of a key pair that digested the 1440th genSignature to a hit that was below everyone elses target. It would be totally doable.

This problem is super solvable though. BTNext should make the BaseTarget adjustable with an algo similar to bitcoins re-target algo. Then Increae the 1440 block (24 hours) restriction for effectiveBalance out to about 43200 (1 month) just to be extra super safe (its best to pick absurdly safe parameters when dealing with billions or possibly even trillions of dollars someday). Then finally make the nextGenSignature a digest of the prevGenSignature + the public key of the author of the last block. You couldnt game it with intentionally selected keys because you would have to pick the key 1 month ahead of time and there would be no way to predict who would author which blocks 1 month out since miners drop in and out of the network at random.

1440 blocks is safe number coz u have to know who will sign the 1439th block which depends on the signer of the 1438th block and so forth. To know future signers u must know future balances. Even if u know future balances u must know future topology of the network to predict which blocks will be orphaned.

EmoneyRu

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Nxt-kit developer

What would happen if I same run api query to register alias N-times from one account? I'll loose (N-1) coins?

2Kool4Skewl

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Quote from: xibeijan on December 20, 2013, 03:08:05 AM

Why is coinmarketcap showing 999,997,987 NXT instead of 1B NXT?

Someone sent 2013 Nxt back to the genesis account, thus destroying them.

xibeijan

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Why is coinmarketcap showing 999,997,987 NXT instead of 1B NXT?

Anon136

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 20, 2013, 02:50:12 AM

Quote from: Anon136 on December 20, 2013, 02:45:03 AM

oooh so the generationSignature is a digest of the previous generationSignature + the time-stamp of the previous block?

No. It's digest of prevGenSignature only.

How determined the generator (account) of the next block:

1. X = digest of prevGenSignature gives 256 bits
2. First 64 bits is a HIT
3. Target = BaseTarget (which is the same for all accounts) * Balance * Time_since_previous_block
4. If HIT < Target then next block can be generated

Edit: Target grows each second until it "crosses" HIT of one of the accounts

All you would have to do is brute force the creation of a key pair that digested the 1440th genSignature to a hit that was below everyone elses target. It would be totally doable.

This problem is super solvable though. BTNext should make the BaseTarget adjustable with an algo similar to bitcoins re-target algo. Then Increae the 1440 block (24 hours) restriction for effectiveBalance out to about 43200 (1 month) just to be extra super safe (its best to pick absurdly safe parameters when dealing with billions or possibly even trillions of dollars someday). Then finally make the nextGenSignature a digest of the prevGenSignature + the public key of the author of the last block. You couldnt game it with intentionally selected keys because you would have to pick the key 1 month ahead of time and there would be no way to predict who would author which blocks 1 month out since miners drop in and out of the network at random.

xibeijan

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Quote from: nexern on December 19, 2013, 07:21:06 PM

Quote from: xibeijan on December 19, 2013, 02:49:39 PM

Quote from: abctc on December 19, 2013, 03:19:49 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 19, 2013, 03:08:21 AM

... planning to get rid of the interface completely.

- very sad.

The browser (https) access and the absence of stand-alone client is the most distinguishing (and attractive) feature of Nxt.

The browser access successfully works on smartphones right now.

Hope BCNext will change his mind regarding browser client.

I don't like the java interface at all and would prefer a stable, fast, clean native interface.

me too.
i want a client which is lean, small, fast and cross os, running
without installation from my usb-stick on windows, linux or mac,
able to connect to my private local node, my public net node and
even to other secured nodes later without any stored browser
history and security concerns like this, just by one click from
any place.

i want to manage my account, handle shares on the asset exchange
and use all the cool features nxt is providing soon without
leaving the client workspace, just like a central application hub.

i also want to see all quotes for other coins, best in near realtime
and trade them with advanced tools and technical analysis including
candlestick charts. auto-notifications on price-actions and bot-trading
with backtesting tools are also welcome.

i want a client which never needs updates, because this is built in
and it would also nice to add special plugins with a single click and
use them without restarting my os or even the client itself.
all this should fit into 1mb to send the client via mail to friends
without bothering them by complex multilayer installations and make
them start nxt easy.

well, we don't have it right now but we could have it soon. ;-)

http://87.230.14.1/charts/01_screen.png

(early prototype running on my win7 vm)

Looks like a trading platform to me, and looks great.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: Anon136 on December 20, 2013, 02:45:03 AM

oooh so the generationSignature is a digest of the previous generationSignature + the time-stamp of the previous block?

No. It's digest of prevGenSignature only.

How determined the generator (account) of the next block:

1. X = digest of prevGenSignature gives 256 bits
2. First 64 bits of X is a HIT
3. Target = BaseTarget (which is the same for all accounts) * Balance * Time_since_previous_block
4. If HIT < Target then next block can be generated

Edit: Target grows each second until it "crosses" HIT of one of the accounts

Anon136

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 20, 2013, 02:40:18 AM

Quote from: Anon136 on December 20, 2013, 02:35:24 AM

My understanding is that the next generationSignatureB is a digest of generationSignatureA and generationSignatureC is a digest of generationSignatureB ect... So what i mean is, what stops an attacker from calculating generationSignatures 1441 steps into the future and then creating and funding account that will win the right to author that 1441st block. It should in theory be rather simple to generate 1441 signatures if it is a purely deterministic process right?

U must predict amounts on other accounts in 1440 steps, coz time when u generate a block depends on ur effective balance. It's possible only for empty blocks. If someone's account becomes larger then he will get chance to inject his block into ur chain completely ruining all ur computations.

oooh so the generationSignature is a digest of the previous generationSignature + the time-stamp of the previous block?

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: Anon136 on December 20, 2013, 02:35:24 AM

My understanding is that the next generationSignatureB is a digest of generationSignatureA and generationSignatureC is a digest of generationSignatureB ect... So what i mean is, what stops an attacker from calculating generationSignatures 1441 steps into the future and then creating and funding account that will win the right to author that 1441st block. It should in theory be rather simple to generate 1441 signatures if it is a purely deterministic process right?

U must predict amounts on other accounts in 1440 steps, coz time when u generate a block depends on ur effective balance. It's possible only for empty blocks. If someone's account becomes larger then he will get chance to inject his block into ur chain completely ruining all ur computations.

Anon136

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 20, 2013, 02:27:05 AM

Quote from: Anon136 on December 20, 2013, 02:20:54 AM

is it really that difficult to calculate out 1441 blocks ahead? it doesn't sound difficult. If it is so difficult now what happens when computers become faster and more powerful in the future? is the plan to just fork it from time to time?

What should be calculated ahead to be able to generate all blocks?

My understanding is that the next generationSignatureB is a digest of generationSignatureA and generationSignatureC is a digest of generationSignatureB ect... So what i mean is, what stops an attacker from calculating generationSignatures 1441 steps into the future and then creating and funding account that will win the right to author that 1441st block. It should in theory be rather simple to generate 1441 signatures if it is a purely deterministic process right?

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: pinarello on December 20, 2013, 02:26:48 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 20, 2013, 02:03:02 AM

I'm preparing version 0.4.0, if noone reports a bug in alias system within 2 hours, I'll publish it.

Are you a human? Do you ever sleep?

Great cant wait !

Pin

U still have to wait till block 22000 before u r able to register names.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: Anon136 on December 20, 2013, 02:20:54 AM

is it really that difficult to calculate out 1441 blocks ahead? it doesn't sound difficult. If it is so difficult now what happens when computers become faster and more powerful in the future? is the plan to just fork it from time to time?

What should be calculated ahead to be able to generate all blocks?

pinarello

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NXT is the future

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 20, 2013, 02:03:02 AM

I'm preparing version 0.4.0, if noone reports a bug in alias system within 2 hours, I'll publish it.

Are you a human? Do you ever sleep?

Great cant wait !

Pin

Anon136

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 20, 2013, 02:12:36 AM

Quote from: Anon136 on December 20, 2013, 02:09:04 AM

So next question. What mechanism prevents people from purposefully creating accounts with public keys which will allow them to author an upcoming block?

Cunicula (as attacker) and BCNext (as defender) came to the following algo:

1. Brand new accounts must wait 1440 blocks before they r given permission to forge blocks
2. Old accounts forge blocks as if their balance doesn't include coins received in the previous block

Amount that is used for forging is called "effective balance".

is it really that difficult to calculate out 1441 blocks ahead? it doesn't sound difficult. If it is so difficult now what happens when computers become faster and more powerful in the future? is the plan to just fork it from time to time?

it seems like if the generationSignature was additionally a product of the hash of the public key of the account that authored the previous block than that would add a measure of security for little additional cost. as in, unlike including phony transactions to get the result you want out of the digest of a whole block, it would be difficult to coax the result you wanted out of a public key funded with a large amount of cash 1441 blocks ahead of time.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: laowai80 on December 20, 2013, 02:11:38 AM

Question on fees for aliases.
What should we set for a fee? Would it matter if someone was a few seconds later in generating an alias registration transaction but paying a higher fee, would that get them a priority? Is there a default fee?

NRS picks transactions with higher FEE/SIZE ratio in the 1st place.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: Anon136 on December 20, 2013, 02:09:04 AM

So next question. What mechanism prevents people from purposefully creating accounts with public keys which will allow them to author an upcoming block?

Cunicula (as attacker) and BCNext (as defender) came to the following algo:

1. Brand new accounts must wait 1440 blocks before they r given permission to forge blocks
2. Old accounts forge blocks as if their balance doesn't include coins received in the previous block

Amount that is used for forging is called "effective balance".

laowai80

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Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 20, 2013, 02:09:43 AM

Yes. It will be invalidating all AS transactions till block 22000.

Ok, got that.

Question on fees for aliases.
What should we set for a fee? Would it matter if someone was a few seconds later in generating an alias registration transaction but paying a higher fee, would that get them a priority? Is there a default fee?

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: laowai80 on December 20, 2013, 02:06:05 AM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on December 20, 2013, 02:03:02 AM

I'm preparing version 0.4.0, if noone reports a bug in alias system within 2 hours, I'll publish it.

And just to confirm, 0.4.0 is to be deployed in real network?

Yes. It will be invalidating all AS transactions till block 22000.

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