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Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 2516. (Read 2761650 times)

legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1003
I think you are right. Good news.

False alarm. I was basing this on an older description of Nxt. The code already removes effects of age on hashing power. Going to delete older posts.

Specifically, I was confused by this:

Alice has 2500 nxts on her account. Last time she found a block 4 days ago. Her money is like a mining rig with hashpower equal to 2500 * 4 = 10000 GH/s.
Bob has 1000 ntx on his account. He was on vacation and hasn't opened his account for 20 days. His money is like a mining rig with 1000 * 20 = 20000 GH/s hashpower.

But later BCNext says this (see below), which doesn't mention coin-age at all. So like you say he must have changed the spec. I was confused why he criticized PPCoin and ended up adopting an almost identical system. It would make a lot more sense if he dropped coin age altogether.


It's a good chance to tell the details...
Each block has "generationSignature" parameter. An active account signs "generationSignature" of the previous block with its private key. This gives 64 bytes which are hashed with SHA256. The first 8 bytes of the hash gives a number (I call it a "hit"). The hit is compared to the current "target" (64bit number). If the hit is lower than the target then next block can be generated.
The target for each account is proportional to the balance. Someone holding 1000 coins gets a 50 times bigger target than someone with 20 coins. Thus the owner of 1000 coins will generate 50 times more blocks than the owner of 20 coins (in the long run).
The target is not constant, it grows each second passed since the timestamp of the previous block. If noone generated a block on the first second then the target becomes 2 times bigger and so on. The base target is the target on the 60 second mark. If there is only a few active accounts then after a long time someone will generate a block because the target will become very big. If you open the client and log with any funded account you can see a ticking timer in BLOCKS widget. It shows when the target will become greater than your hit.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
2) Age is the number of confirmations on the coins used for mining. The target is proportional to coin-age. So it is difficulty/ ((number of coins)(confirmations on coins))

A fix for the issue is to change the target to difficulty/(number of coins).

Anyways, if you don't understand than just simulate it. It is easy to do in excel, matlab, or whatever.


Target is not proportional to coin-age.

BCNext wrote:
After thinking about the mining algorithm I came to conclusion that original proof-of-stake used by PPC and NVC is a bit flawed.  Bob could accumulate small amounts on different accounts during a long period of time and then attempt a 51% attack.  Artificial limits like max 90 days don't seem to work as intended.  Nxt will use a different proof-of-stake approach, I need time to nail some details and then I'll post them here.

After that he devised such an algo:

1. Target = BaseTarget * Balance * Time_since_last_block
2. Hit = First 64 bits of SHA256(SignCurve25519(PreviousBlockHash))
3. If Hit <= Target then a block can be generated

Thus

Time_when_next_block_can_be_generated = First 64 bits of SHA256(SignCurve25519(PreviousBlockHash)) / (BaseTarget * Balance)

PreviousBlockHash and BaseTarget are the same for all miners. Balance is fixed. There is no age here.


A fix for the issue is to change this to
target=difficulty/(number of coins).

We already have this!
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Hmm... strange. Am I seeing other people's transactions in my unconfirmed?
I just saw a 30 million transaction from/to completely unknown addresses, and a 5000 transaction, in my unconfirmed list.
Those are not mine, and non of the addresses are mine. So why am I seeing them?

The transaction ID of the 5000 one is: 4186390315154153878

It's a list of ALL unconfirmed transactions.

Ah.. OK. Did not know that. Tongue
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
Hmm... strange. Am I seeing other people's transactions in my unconfirmed?
I just saw a 30 million transaction from/to completely unknown addresses, and a 5000 transaction, in my unconfirmed list.
Those are not mine, and non of the addresses are mine. So why am I seeing them?

The transaction ID of the 5000 one is: 4186390315154153878

It's a list of ALL unconfirmed transactions.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
I understand that I can now claim my NTX, but I don't understand how to do that.
 Huh

Could someone please explain or at least point me in the right direction (link)?

Thanks
 Smiley

Send 0.0001 BTC to 1BCN1ugdKdWd9pQ8Am9hMhtHZfmbXzxE8a with attached Nxt account id. Important: Send it from the same address that u used to send bitcoins from.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Hmm... strange. Am I seeing other people's transactions in my unconfirmed?
I just saw a 30 million transaction from/to completely unknown addresses, and a 5000 transaction, in my unconfirmed list.
Those are not mine, and non of the addresses are mine. So why am I seeing them?

The transaction ID of the 5000 one is: 4186390315154153878
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
Here is the mathematics behind the proof-of-stake generation rate.
Basically it says that the generation rate is proportional to the log of account coin holdings.
It is optimal to have 1 coin in each account when mining.
We would like it to be linear in account holdings, so there is no benefit from combining or dispersing your holdings.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/187987757/Nxt-Problem-Cunicula

I will postpone any further work in documenting Nxt until this is fixed.
Conjure up the developer and I will help him come up with a fix.

Edit: Fix is actually super simple. Just remove age from the equation and make the target depend only on the number of coins in the account.

I lost u at the very beginning. To continue further reading I have to know:

1. Do u decribe a Poisson process?
2. What does "age" mean?
3. Why do u use approximations?
hero member
Activity: 566
Merit: 500
209 blocks were generated by accounts with chance to generate < 1%
I'm within that list. How can we verify our account has created a block? There is no transaction related to that visible on the client. The block probably did not contain any transactions?

We would like it to be linear in account holdings, so there is no benefit from combining or dispersing your holdings.
Well done. I don't see logic in not fixing this.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
Can anyone explain how do I see and trade the NTX that I should have got from the Genesis block?
 Huh

This might have been answered somewhere in this 84 pages thread, but I would really appreciate if someone could explain or at least point me in the right direction (link?).

Thanks!
 Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1038
What are the minimum requirements in terms of amounts of Nxt to feasibly be able to mine more?  Is 1000 NXT enough or would it take forever?
- see here.
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1038
I understand that I can now claim my NTX, but I don't understand how to do that.
Could someone please explain or at least point me in the right direction (link)?
- see here.
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
What are the minimum requirements in terms of amounts of Nxt to feasibly be able to mine more?  Is 1000 NXT enough or would it take forever?
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
Did some more analysis.
Nxt is vulnerable to a type of sibyl attack.  Sad
Will post the math later.
Sorry I missed this earlier.
Can we get the developer to rise from the dead so we can fix the mining algorithm?

I think there's plenty of time to fix this problem. Currently no one will bother to do this kind of attack since the transaction fee is negligible. The only thing he can do is double spend, but it can be easily detected and Nxt goes to 0 will hurt the attacker too.
newbie
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
I understand that I can now claim my NTX, but I don't understand how to do that.
 Huh

Could someone please explain or at least point me in the right direction (link)?

Thanks
 Smiley
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
Now I just need the Price of NXT to skyrocket  so I can tell my boss to go Fuk himself!

Top bid order on the exchange is 1.25 BTC for 1M NXT. Already +25% Smiley


_?_*is the wallet stable now? last time i checked you all were still testing/breaking NXT!  Cool tia!
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
As a stake holder myself im here for the long run and wont be dumping  all my coins. i want to see nxt progress and become mainstream. its already taken off quicker than i expected. Im sat here watching others hard work but im no good at any coding/designing.  so ill stick to spreading the word and mining. ive been running nxt on my machine 24hrs  Grin
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
Guys, what are your long term plans for Nxt? I understand that it is early in the life of Nxt, but some of the attitudes confuse me.

- The very real problem of a possible brute force attack to access accounts was shrugged of more than once now. The anwser basically was, use longer passphrase. This will work (maybe) if you want a few hundred geeks to use Nxt. In the "mainstream" you can never, ever trust the user to be smart.

- The integraded exchange and stuff will be good to have, but some point an effort has to be made with the API so major exchanges can potentially add Nxt. People don't like to use 5 different exchanges. If they have money on Btc-e, they will mainly buy and sell there. This is not an urgent problem, but needs to be addressed at some point.

- Java, localhost, interface look. Again, if you want Nxt to be successful, it can not remain this. An avarage user will not stand for it.

- We have to make more of an effort to explane Proof-of-Stake, and mining in Nxt. We need a catchy phrase for it, a standard reply. like: "In Nxt your coin is your mining equipment. Buy coin!"
It encourages coin distributon, transactions, and explains mining, and the point of PoS. Don't invest in hardware, invest in the coin.

If you know all this and have plans that brings this coin to the big league, then never mind me.
But it would be nice to know, what is the goal? Making a good coin, or making a good _and_ successful coin?

Thanks for reading.
Valid concerns!

-To make it mainstraem we need to provide accessible security and also ease of use possible for average joe. The first account generating concern can be resolved in some extend by creating something like bitaddress.org , the user types some phrase or code, the algo takes it and add some entropy to it by adding some random numbers and then generate a phrase key which cam be used further, to generate an account id. in the Nxt local client. I also agree that the GU needs more polishing and some graphic design, but it is not a hard problem and can be done in progressing time even by another developers after the open source gets published soon. I guess Nxt has laredy have an API but the same solution as the other one, new developers or the main current developers can add it for sure. It's too young..

-Yes we need to explain for both general and technical audiences, also a more attractive graphical (video) presentation, that's why I created some bounties: general article bounty+ its Chinese translation, the whitepaper, the video. But we need more support.
Fortunately I received pm from several skilled people to assist us with these projects, but all of you should not forget: I am only a stake holder and will push and keep pushing the pace of progress as much as is possible for me. Unfortunately most of big stake holders are idle, two or three are just selfishly in the dumping process (selling is Okay, I mean extreme dumping) and there are at the moment 4 or 5 stake holders who are trying to push and help the process. In the long run, it could be a big problem  Sad

I ll review the bounty thread posts tomorrow and will react accordingly.. giveaway I will probably start assigning and sending coins this midnight.
I had been very busy recently, sorry for the delay Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
Any idea on how to fix this? (I'm on mac mavericks):

I have java 7 update 45.

Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: Nxt : Unsupported major.minor version 51.0
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1(Native Method)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClassCond(ClassLoader.java:637)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(ClassLoader.java:621)
   at java.security.SecureClassLoader.defineClass(SecureClassLoader.java:141)
   at java.net.URLClassLoader.defineClass(URLClassLoader.java:283)
   at java.net.URLClassLoader.access$000(URLClassLoader.java:58)
   at java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:197)
   at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
   at java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:190)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:306)
   at sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:301)
   at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:247)


hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Guys, what are your long term plans for Nxt? I understand that it is early in the life of Nxt, but some of the attitudes confuse me.

- The very real problem of a possible brute force attack to access accounts was shrugged of more than once now. The anwser basically was, use longer passphrase. This will work (maybe) if you want a few hundred geeks to use Nxt. In the "mainstream" you can never, ever trust the user to be smart.

- The integraded exchange and stuff will be good to have, but some point an effort has to be made with the API so major exchanges can potentially add Nxt. People don't like to use 5 different exchanges. If they have money on Btc-e, they will mainly buy and sell there. This is not an urgent problem, but needs to be addressed at some point.

- Java, localhost, interface look. Again, if you want Nxt to be successful, it can not remain this. An avarage user will not stand for it.

- We have to make more of an effort to explane Proof-of-Stake, and mining in Nxt. We need a catchy phrase for it, a standard reply. like: "In Nxt your coin is your mining equipment. Buy coin!"
It encourages coin distributon, transactions, and explains mining, and the point of PoS. Don't invest in hardware, invest in the coin.

If you know all this and have plans that brings this coin to the big league, then never mind me.
But it would be nice to know, what is the goal? Making a good coin, or making a good _and_ successful coin?

Thanks for reading.

looks pretty similar to what i have posted a few pages ago. agree!
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
They can be used to fill 1 nxt to all the blocks. That's easy to implement cause we just need to create another account and transfer to it every minute. Smiley

It's even allowed to send coins back to the same account.

~ daisy chain that 'ish? LOL  Wink
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