Author

Topic: NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information - page 833. (Read 2761626 times)

member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Running costs are extremely low for NXT: As most users have flatrates, it basically comes down to power costs. Even running the forging client on a netbook would only cost about 25€ per year.

It's extremely low, if you're only running Nxt on top of what you'd normally be doing. But remember that some folks won't be leaving their computing devices on for long periods of time. Even if you assume that e.g. Nxt node is set to automatically run whenever you connect to the internet, there are still other costs (that usually aren't factored into the numbers) like setting all this up, one more process to consider as culprit if your system hangs, etc.


As the price will increase and it is always possible to reduce power consumption by using a rasp-pi and a solar-panel

Rasp-pis may not suffice for much longer, there have been discussions about this recently, though I'm sure there will be newer, more powerful and still cheap microboards that will take their place. And solar panel production costs are going down and efficiencies are going up. But they're still a non-negligible cost in terms of $ and setup.


Basically, if I'm a regular guy (i.e. not someone who has a comp running for long periods of time, and not particularly concerned about the Nxt network) and my expected net gains are very low, then I'd rather not bother with forging at all. Too many things in life to worry about, I'd rather just lease my forging power and have one less. Let the market make it easy for me to decide where to lease it, e.g. who can offer better returns, which forger seems to be not doing evil.

EDIT: So ultimately it'll depend on price and transaction volume increasing. If they increase enough, then regular folks may find it worth it to forge themselves. Then yeah, I can see shared forging, or some other form of variance reduction in the protocol as much more appealing than leased forging or joining pools.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
@Come-from-Beyond :

using NXT wallet from here http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/#
and numerical keypad doesn't work for me (azerty keyboard).

You need to tell wesleyh, not to Come-From-Beyond , because the nxtra.org client was created by #wesleyh.

Fixed.
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
when should we be able to lease forging power? im not about to send all my coins away, not worth the risk

In ~1 month.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0

Thanks for the link. But that only reduces the variance, it doesn't increase the expected gains from forging. Pools "work" (well, used to work) for Bitcoin and friends because expected gains (used to be) > costs even for small-timers, but the variance was extremely high. Nxt has low expected gains from forging. Poor shibes like me will likely have have expected gains of < 0 (after electricity and hardware costs), the only profitable ones may be ones that can do it in scale and have market advantages in the different parts of the cost equation, to keep costs down.

I share the concerns of centralization, but seems to me the way to deal with that is for leasers to be able to have some kind of influence on the forger's behavour (i.e. what txes they reject, scripts they don't run and how they blacklist/weigh other forgers). Maybe moving leasing power to someone else is sufficient, or maybe there needs to be some way for leaser's to inflict a penalty (but maybe with their own reputations on the line).

Expected gains = rewards - running costs

Running costs are extremely low for NXT: As most users have flatrates, it basically comes down to power costs. Even running the forging client on a netbook would only cost about 25€ per year. Using the average per day there are 3.347.046,35 NXT fee generated per year.

This means, that forging on a netbook at the moment is profitable if you have more than 173,704.0 NXT on your account. As the price will increase and it is always possible to reduce power consumption by using a rasp-pi and a solar-panel, i do not think, that expected gains is a good argument for pooled forging.
All you could save by pooling would be 173,704.0 Nxt at the moment - a lot less if price increases.

Edit: Math was a off

when should we be able to lease forging power? im not about to send all my coins away, not worth the risk
legendary
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1005
I keep getting 100's of these messages (NRS 0.7.5)

[2014-02-17 11:58:47.291] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps5.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 11:58:48.350] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps5.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 11:58:51.529] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps1.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 11:58:52.579] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps5.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 11:58:54.779] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps5.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 11:58:56.980] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps5.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 11:58:58.318] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps1.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 11:58:59.369] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps5.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting

What's causing this? Can this be ignored?

My public node acts the same.
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
Finally , i'm start forging in the testClient


http://i.epvpimg.com/kkZAh.png
sr. member
Activity: 338
Merit: 250
I keep getting 100's of these messages (NRS 0.7.5)

[2014-02-17 11:58:47.291] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps5.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 11:58:48.350] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps5.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 11:58:51.529] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps1.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 11:58:52.579] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps5.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 11:58:54.779] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps5.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 11:58:56.980] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps5.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 11:58:58.318] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps1.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting
[2014-02-17 11:58:59.369] DEBUG: Failed to accept block 5019498541751544021 at h
eight 68491 received from vps5.nxtcrypto.org, blacklisting

What's causing this? Can this be ignored?
newbie
Activity: 39
Merit: 0

Thanks for the link. But that only reduces the variance, it doesn't increase the expected gains from forging. Pools "work" (well, used to work) for Bitcoin and friends because expected gains (used to be) > costs even for small-timers, but the variance was extremely high. Nxt has low expected gains from forging. Poor shibes like me will likely have have expected gains of < 0 (after electricity and hardware costs), the only profitable ones may be ones that can do it in scale and have market advantages in the different parts of the cost equation, to keep costs down.

I share the concerns of centralization, but seems to me the way to deal with that is for leasers to be able to have some kind of influence on the forger's behavour (i.e. what txes they reject, scripts they don't run and how they blacklist/weigh other forgers). Maybe moving leasing power to someone else is sufficient, or maybe there needs to be some way for leaser's to inflict a penalty (but maybe with their own reputations on the line).

Expected gains = rewards - running costs

Running costs are extremely low for NXT: As most users have flatrates, it basically comes down to power costs. Even running the forging client on a netbook would only cost about 25€ per year. Using the average per day there are 3.347.046,35 NXT fee generated per year.

This means, that forging on a netbook at the moment is profitable if you have more than 173,704.0 NXT on your account. As the price will increase and it is always possible to reduce power consumption by using a rasp-pi and a solar-panel, i do not think, that expected gains is a good argument for pooled forging.
All you could save by pooling would be 173,704.0 Nxt at the moment - a lot less if price increases.

Edit: Math was a off
full member
Activity: 152
Merit: 100
ok guys, sent pm to wesleyh.
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
3705364957971254799

Could I have some testnxt?

Merci!

Sent 2K TestNxt Wink .
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 500
3705364957971254799

Could I have some testnxt?

Merci!
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
@Come-from-Beyond :

using NXT wallet from here http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/#
and numerical keypad doesn't work for me (azerty keyboard).

You need to tell wesleyh, not to Come-From-Beyond , because the nxtra.org client was created by #wesleyh.
legendary
Activity: 866
Merit: 1002
@Come-from-Beyond :

using NXT wallet from here http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/#
and numerical keypad doesn't work for me (azerty keyboard).

unrelated to NRS, so unrelated to CfB
full member
Activity: 152
Merit: 100
@Come-from-Beyond :

using NXT wallet from here http://nxtra.org/nxt-client/#
and numerical keypad doesn't work for me (azerty keyboard).
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
Report bugs on the testnet plz.

Especially the bug when it's impossible to place an ask order if u have not enough NXT to buy ur own order.

Has anyone reproduced the bug?


No ,  i've not found any bug at the moment ....
legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
Report bugs on the testnet plz.

Especially the bug when it's impossible to place an ask order if u have not enough NXT to buy ur own order.

Has anyone reproduced the bug?
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
So far Mises_77 has the best idea for service or product on top of NXT. A nodecoin that rewards people for forging in a new altcoin. This way, even if you dont forge a node, at least you get a nodecoin. Eventually a market in this coin will develop and people will trade them for fun. I think it should be on a per machine basis, so it wont matter how big your acct is, you still can get some nodecoin every minute. Probably need to fractionalize the reward, or limit to the ones that were closest to forging. Anyway, excellent idea regardless of how the details shake out.

I will be using nodecoin as an example of a NXTcoin that are built on top of NXT. Rickyjames is authorized to make 500NXT payment to Mises_77

James

Bounty sent.  James, it would help me a lot if when you do these bounties, you would shoot a quick PM to me containing just a link to the post where you make the award.  

NXTcommunityfund spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoE8nAOEMIa7dFFnWjRNYTM4RkhsN3dRRXFBaTBiaHc#gid=16
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 504
Write Articles for Nxt, get 3.000 Nxt bounty for long article!!
Choose from topics or suggest your own:

- NEW: Nxt as a national currency. Coin or asset built on top of the network as a currency for African countries, casinos, local communities, travel agencies, hotels

- Why is pure Proof of Stake in Nxt best solution for cryptocurrencies?

- How can you mine Nxt only with solar energy?

- How could decentralized exchanges change the world? (no Government, no censorship, USA, China...) - + decentralized messaging, DNS
 - - Decentralized internet and Nxt solutions: Salsacz [proofreading phase]


- The 51% Attack - technical details, history of 51% attacks, how it ended, Nxt solution (is Nxt safer than other PoS currencies?) (Ghash's pool is risking Bitcoin's security again with 40% of the network's hashpower and no one is talking about it. Pools of PoW machines with enormous hashpower is Bitcoin's most pressing concern and biggest flaw right now. Nextcoin is the best answer to this. Why is it not being talked about more?)
- Zahlen

- Nxt: gaming friendly currency (vs. Litecoin, a graphic cards killer) - Due to Litecoin's difficulty skyrocketing there is a global shortage of Graphic Cards, which piss off gamers tremendously and drive up the price for grahics cards. NXT solves this. (Uniqueorn's idea, maybe reserved for him..?)

- Nxt + Raspberry (+other similar platforms (Cubietruck)) (can be different articles, also short articles) (0 energy  forging package)

- Transparent Forging (very very technical, history of mining, comparisons)

Shorter articles/essays:

- Why should you invest in Nxt? (/Why should you invest in Nxt long term?)
- bithic
- Damelon
- many free spots

- Why is Nxt so friendly currency?: (i) It *doesn't* have VC capital backing. ii) It *doesn't* have "slick sales guys*. iii) It *does* have smart devs and an increasing following.  iv) It *is* delivering its promises (more or less) on time.) - more about the community, people form all over the world, community funding, decentralized company - a world of free individuals who all believe in Nxt. 1500 pages in Bitcointalk
- bithic

- How Nxt changed my life


Future (short) articles: (now it's to soon):

- Who accepts Nxt as a payment? (+ fee in Nxt vs. Bitcoin vs. fiat (VISA))
- Nxt invites altcoins to host on it's blockchain
- Can be a new internet stored on Nxt's blockchain / DNS system?
- Nxt clients: Damelon

Have you got any idea about some other article? Share it. We would love to have more scientific articles, financial, economical, IT...

Discussion in Topic: Nxt marketing & promotion
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nxt-marketing-promotion-nxt-forum-now-moved-to-nxtforumsorg-412243
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
I would also like to have some TestNxt please Smiley

I can use Wheezers web client for that right?
5039428182716380979


Sent 2K TestNxt .
Jump to: