NXT Silver Bullion Gateway Gateway Updates and Information - page 7.

msin

legendary

Activity: 1470

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Quote from: Anon136 on February 10, 2014, 11:16:46 AM

Quote from: wwdz99 on February 10, 2014, 10:39:02 AM

hi Anon ,u r doing a great work.

and You also gave me a lot of hope to be able to trade US stocks by AE. As a foreigner, you know, it is difficult to trade U.S. stocks (such as NASDAQ), you can deploy it together in you gateway?

I think this is a lot of people just like me will needed. Waiting for your reply, thank you.

You cant technically trade any of the underlying assets on the nxt decentralized asset exchange. What you can trade is assets denominated in the underlying asset. I.E. a promise to pay the underlying asset on demand. Since the person could never pay you the underlying asset in your jurisdiction you could never actually get the stock. HOWEVER you could take advantage of changing prices by buying the promise to pay, holding that promise to pay while the value of the underlying asset (presumably) increases, then selling that promise to pay to someone state-side for more than you initially paid for it (since if the value of the underlying asset increases than so too will the value of the promise to pay that asset on demand)

I can definitely see this. It would be very easy to start a tech stock AE for example, give the choice of a few popular stocks (apple, google, facebook, twitter, etc) to be traded on Nxt AE. Hell, maybe I'll start the exchange. I could easily post statements for each transaction for confirmation.

Anon136

legendary

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Quote from: wwdz99 on February 10, 2014, 10:39:02 AM

hi Anon ,u r doing a great work.

and You also gave me a lot of hope to be able to trade US stocks by AE. As a foreigner, you know, it is difficult to trade U.S. stocks (such as NASDAQ), you can deploy it together in you gateway?

I think this is a lot of people just like me will needed. Waiting for your reply, thank you.

You cant technically trade any of the underlying assets on the nxt decentralized asset exchange. What you can trade is assets denominated in the underlying asset. I.E. a promise to pay the underlying asset on demand. Since the person could never pay you the underlying asset in your jurisdiction you could never actually get the stock. HOWEVER you could take advantage of changing prices by buying the promise to pay, holding that promise to pay while the value of the underlying asset (presumably) increases, then selling that promise to pay to someone state-side for more than you initially paid for it (since if the value of the underlying asset increases than so too will the value of the promise to pay that asset on demand)

wwdz99

sr. member

Activity: 243

Merit: 250

hi Anon ,u r doing a great work.

and You also gave me a lot of hope to be able to trade US stocks by AE. As a foreigner, you know, it is difficult to trade U.S. stocks (such as NASDAQ), you can deploy it together in you gateway?

I think this is a lot of people just like me will needed. Waiting for your reply, thank you.

upekha

full member

Activity: 183

Merit: 100

TDTPJR-P5SGXY-UU2OS6-BPTUV4-NJYQFT-6CWYZP-IA2W

sounds interesting!

silver seems legit Wink

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: User705 on February 09, 2014, 05:28:05 PM

Thumbs up for the brave people getting it done. You were asking the questions so I thought I'd share the info that I know. Decentralized physical assets will have the weak point of the person or company holding and handling the physical items. If you are choosing to be that person be cautious.

yea i would be lying if i said it wasn't terrifying. ill just get the license if I can.

User705

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First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold

Thumbs up for the brave people getting it done. You were asking the questions so I thought I'd share the info that I know. Decentralized physical assets will have the weak point of the person or company holding and handling the physical items. If you are choosing to be that person be cautious.

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: User705 on February 09, 2014, 05:04:17 PM

I'm not familiar with ripple but a cursory look suggests that the actual gateways between fiat and xrp are companies like bitstamp which either are registered MSBs or are not in US jurisdiction. Also recent arrests of regular bitcoin sellers in Florida for failing to follow MSB regulations shows the dangers of even doing things P2P. Calling things tokens etc while the real meaning is something else will only make it seem like you are actively trying to dodge the law. Why not just be a PM sales company that accepts Nxt as payment and pays with Nxt for silver.

Because decentralized asset exchange is a core feature. Once we get this ball rolling down hill and everyone is doing it these laws will be unenforceable. The hard part is just getting that ball rolling. others are doing it also https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/counterparty-desktop-gui-bounty-thread-430998 this is going to be the next big thing in the crypto space.

again though any idea what the implications wuold be if i purposefully made no guarantees to honour any arrangements?

User705

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First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold

I'm not familiar with ripple but a cursory look suggests that the actual gateways between fiat and xrp are companies like bitstamp which either are registered MSBs or are not in US jurisdiction. Also recent arrests of regular bitcoin sellers in Florida for failing to follow MSB regulations shows the dangers of even doing things P2P. Calling things tokens etc while the real meaning is something else will only make it seem like you are actively trying to dodge the law. Why not just be a PM sales company that accepts Nxt as payment and pays with Nxt for silver.

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: brooklynbtc on February 09, 2014, 04:06:08 PM

yeah 10oz is 10x doper.

I wonder how much arbitrage there would be from NXT price including shipping, to retail pricing. I'm guessing not much once you started making a deserved profit on this.

its just something i would have to figure out with trial and error. hopefully not too much error. i would be trying my hardest to compete with amagi prices but thats going to be hard because i will likely have to turn the nxt into bitcoin, the bitcoin into dollars and the dollars into silver. every one of those stages the counter party is going to want some premium. by making my own bars though i may be able to pull it off.

brooklynbtc

sr. member

Activity: 336

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AKA jefdiesel

yeah 10oz is 10x doper.

I wonder how much arbitrage there would be from NXT price including shipping, to retail pricing. I'm guessing not much once you started making a deserved profit on this.

Anon136

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Quote from: brooklynbtc on February 09, 2014, 03:58:04 PM

Quote from: Anon136 on February 09, 2014, 02:32:39 AM

maybe ill do the best of both worlds. maybe ill make my own brand of silver bars. ill just buy shot and build my own foundry and make my own bars out of it. i always wanted to get into that anyway and my rep here combined with my business idea may make my bars actually marketable. i could keep cost down and have an inexhaustible supply of perfectly fungible product.

but would the landlords let me build a foundry in the back yard.... hmm i could always ask i guess.

1 oz ANON Silver bars. DOPE!

well they would be 10oz bars cuz i dont have time to sit and pour 1 oz bars but they would definitely be DOPE!

brooklynbtc

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

AKA jefdiesel

Quote from: Anon136 on February 09, 2014, 02:32:39 AM

maybe ill do the best of both worlds. maybe ill make my own brand of silver bars. ill just buy shot and build my own foundry and make my own bars out of it. i always wanted to get into that anyway and my rep here combined with my business idea may make my bars actually marketable. i could keep cost down and have an inexhaustible supply of perfectly fungible product.

but would the landlords let me build a foundry in the back yard.... hmm i could always ask i guess.

1 oz ANON Silver bars. DOPE!

Anon136

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Activity: 1722

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Quote from: User705 on February 09, 2014, 03:08:37 PM

I wasn't quite sure what you meant by gateway. You basically want to sell silver for Nxt and be a regular bullion sales company? If yes then the AML and KYC rules of the Patriot Act would apply to your business.
EDIT I didn't see the bottom part but yes any type of securities and especially if you are calling them securities will be subject to securities laws of the countries the participants are in. Just because it's decentralized it won't change existing securities laws. Those laws also pretty much give a pass to the buyers and place the penalties and regulations on the sellers which you seem to want to be. Be careful!

Quote from: Anon136 on February 09, 2014, 11:32:57 AM

Quote from: User705 on February 09, 2014, 02:53:41 AM

If you are in the US an MSB is not needed for a bullion company however there are still rules regarding AML and KYC under the Patriot Act. Basically if you accept a certain amount of cash for bullion or buy certain types of PM from customers then you have to report it. It is certainly up for interpretation if crypto-currency is like cash or not. You are supposed to have AML and KYC policies in place for that.
Also if you intend to not fully sell but issue some sort of on demand precious metals certificate you are subject to SEC/ Futures regulations. You don't want that. The less regulation way is to provide storage for customers that purchase your bullion but don't take delivery. Don't call it anything that can remotely be considered a financial instrument.
Good Luck.

I cant just not let people take delivery. My service would be meaningless if I did that.

Quote

Also if you intend to not fully sell but issue some sort of on demand precious metals certificate you are subject to SEC/ Futures regulations.

but thats exactly how nxt decentralized asset exchange works. same with ripple also for that matter. There is no way around it. So every single person who offers a good or service through the decentralized asset exchange will be subject to SEC/Futures regulations. I can call it a colored token if i want, but the fact is that nxt decentralized asset exchange is a system for exchanging securities.

i wonder how people in ripple deal with it

*edit* do you think i could get around this problem by not promising to redeem the "token"? by saying that i reserve the right to do anything that i want with the tokens and that i make no obligation to redeem them for anything specific or anything at all for that matter and that if i happen to send you a silver coin in the mail after you returned one of my "tokens" to me that this was purely and only because of my chose to send you a silver coin? If i really needed to take this a step further i could send things other than silver at random every once in a while to reinforce this idea, and prove to the government, that im not actually promising to do anything specific by issuing these tokens.

User705

legendary

Activity: 896

Merit: 1006

First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold

I wasn't quite sure what you meant by gateway. You basically want to sell silver for Nxt and be a regular bullion sales company? If yes then the AML and KYC rules of the Patriot Act would apply to your business.
EDIT I didn't see the bottom part but yes any type of securities and especially if you are calling them securities will be subject to securities laws of the countries the participants are in. Just because it's decentralized it won't change existing securities laws. Those laws also pretty much give a pass to the buyers and place the penalties and regulations on the sellers which you seem to want to be. Be careful!

Quote from: Anon136 on February 09, 2014, 11:32:57 AM

Quote from: User705 on February 09, 2014, 02:53:41 AM

If you are in the US an MSB is not needed for a bullion company however there are still rules regarding AML and KYC under the Patriot Act. Basically if you accept a certain amount of cash for bullion or buy certain types of PM from customers then you have to report it. It is certainly up for interpretation if crypto-currency is like cash or not. You are supposed to have AML and KYC policies in place for that.
Also if you intend to not fully sell but issue some sort of on demand precious metals certificate you are subject to SEC/ Futures regulations. You don't want that. The less regulation way is to provide storage for customers that purchase your bullion but don't take delivery. Don't call it anything that can remotely be considered a financial instrument.
Good Luck.

I cant just not let people take delivery. My service would be meaningless if I did that.

Quote

Also if you intend to not fully sell but issue some sort of on demand precious metals certificate you are subject to SEC/ Futures regulations.

but thats exactly how nxt decentralized asset exchange works. same with ripple also for that matter. There is no way around it. So every single person who offers a good or service through the decentralized asset exchange will be subject to SEC/Futures regulations. I can call it a colored token if i want, but the fact is that nxt decentralized asset exchange is a system for exchanging securities.

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: Coinonaer on February 09, 2014, 11:39:56 AM

Some words in German about this Project:
http://altcoinspekulant.wordpress.com/2014/02/09/nxt-zu-silber-physisches-silber-fur-nxt/

hey thanks for the exposure. if i can find a way to expedite the process of shipping overseas than ill definitely consider shipping over there also. last time i shipped something out of country i had to fill out a bunch of paperwork at the post office, it took like 10 minutes. if i can just find a simpler way to ship internationally than ill ship to germans.

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: pinarello on February 09, 2014, 03:33:11 AM

repost:

All,

People that have running projects other than marketing please let us know what your project is.

We want to have a view on all projects and consider bounty for them.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=453935.new#new

for marketing projects please go here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4465984

k i posted in your thread about it. thanks for letting me know.

Coinonaer

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

Some words in German about this Project:
http://altcoinspekulant.wordpress.com/2014/02/09/nxt-zu-silber-physisches-silber-fur-nxt/

Anon136

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1217

Quote from: User705 on February 09, 2014, 02:53:41 AM

If you are in the US an MSB is not needed for a bullion company however there are still rules regarding AML and KYC under the Patriot Act. Basically if you accept a certain amount of cash for bullion or buy certain types of PM from customers then you have to report it. It is certainly up for interpretation if crypto-currency is like cash or not. You are supposed to have AML and KYC policies in place for that.
Also if you intend to not fully sell but issue some sort of on demand precious metals certificate you are subject to SEC/ Futures regulations. You don't want that. The less regulation way is to provide storage for customers that purchase your bullion but don't take delivery. Don't call it anything that can remotely be considered a financial instrument.
Good Luck.

I cant just not let people take delivery. My service would be meaningless if I did that.

Quote

Also if you intend to not fully sell but issue some sort of on demand precious metals certificate you are subject to SEC/ Futures regulations.

but thats exactly how nxt decentralized asset exchange works. same with ripple also for that matter. There is no way around it. So every single person who offers a good or service through the decentralized asset exchange will be subject to SEC/Futures regulations. I can call it a colored token if i want, but the fact is that nxt decentralized asset exchange is a system for exchanging securities.

msin

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1004

Sounds great, following.

nxtsurfer

newbie

Activity: 8

Merit: 0

Hi,

this is a interesting idea.
My vote goes to off brand.I live also in the EU.
I will follow this thread.

Topic: NXT Silver Bullion Gateway Gateway Updates and Information - page 7. (Read 12398 times)