NY regulator memo: Notice of Inquiry on Virtual Currencies - page 2.

Mageant

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Quote from: crumbs on August 14, 2013, 07:53:56 AM

Quote from: Mageant on August 14, 2013, 07:49:06 AM

Quote from: JackH on August 13, 2013, 06:34:59 PM

I dont get this, how exactly will they ACTUALLY stop Bitcoin? There is talk, more talk and even more talk. All the rules and regulations in the world, wont do shit to Bitcoin. The reality is that thousands of users ARE using it, regardless of what someone is saying, simply because they know they cannot be touched. So what is this all for? One last hurrah by regulators?

It won't, and that's the fun thing to watch.
They don't know what to do so they are just trying *anything*.
Just like a caught wild animal will thrash around even though its situation is hopeless.

I think the expression you're looking for is "caught a tiger by the tail"

No, I'm thinking more like a pigeon or rat in a cage.

crumbs

full member

Activity: 210

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Quote from: Mageant on August 14, 2013, 07:49:06 AM

Quote from: JackH on August 13, 2013, 06:34:59 PM

I dont get this, how exactly will they ACTUALLY stop Bitcoin? There is talk, more talk and even more talk. All the rules and regulations in the world, wont do shit to Bitcoin. The reality is that thousands of users ARE using it, regardless of what someone is saying, simply because they know they cannot be touched. So what is this all for? One last hurrah by regulators?

It won't, and that's the fun thing to watch.
They don't know what to do so they are just trying *anything*.
Just like a caught wild animal will thrash around even though its situation is hopeless.

I think the expression you're looking for is "caught a tiger by the tail"

Mageant

legendary

Activity: 1145

Merit: 1001

Quote from: JackH on August 13, 2013, 06:34:59 PM

I dont get this, how exactly will they ACTUALLY stop Bitcoin? There is talk, more talk and even more talk. All the rules and regulations in the world, wont do shit to Bitcoin. The reality is that thousands of users ARE using it, regardless of what someone is saying, simply because they know they cannot be touched. So what is this all for? One last hurrah by regulators?

It won't, and that's the fun thing to watch.
They don't know what to do so they are just trying *anything*.
Just like a caught wild animal will thrash around even though its situation is hopeless.

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: TheButterZone on August 14, 2013, 01:22:50 AM

Government always accomplishes what it sets out to do (which is 180 degrees from what it publicly claims it sets out to do).

quite right ... and they invariably accomplish it so well that they have to double the size of the program and extend it for twice as long ...

jubalix

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Quote from: TheButterZone on August 14, 2013, 01:22:50 AM

Government always accomplishes what it sets out to do (which is 180 degrees from what it publicly claims it sets out to do).

this exaclty +1000

eg drugs,
better education
freedom
etc etc

too many rich people/companies can minimize tax with CC's fot it not to work, and they can buy votes.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

Government always accomplishes what it sets out to do (which is 180 degrees from what it publicly claims it sets out to do).

jedunnigan

sr. member

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Quote from: westkybitcoins on August 14, 2013, 12:30:49 AM

Quote from: jedunnigan on August 13, 2013, 08:14:22 PM

Quote from: westkybitcoins on August 13, 2013, 06:06:22 PM

Quote from: jedunnigan on August 13, 2013, 05:36:41 PM

Quote

As innovative products emerge, it is critical to take steps that allow new technologies and industries to flourish, while also working to ensure that consumers and our national security remain protected.
...
As such, the Department of Financial Services (DFS) has launched an inquiry into the appropriate regulatory guidelines that it should put in place for virtual currencies.

Ignore all the mamzy pamzy anti terrorist nonsense and you get to what they are after: hey we see that our regulatory framework might not best suited for digital currencies and we are afraid to stifle innovation but we are also unwilling to allow illegal activity to go on. Please prove to us you aren't doing anything illegal and tell us how your business works so we can start to figure this thing out.

This is the State of New York we're talking about. I don't for one second believe they're as benignly concerned as your post would suggest.

The only reason I will stand by my point in this conversation is because I have some (in)direct knowledge about the tech sector here in NY. For the past few (7-9) years quite a bit of discussion has gone on about how to make NY more attractive to technology companies. I even know a guy who spoke on panels on behalf of the tech community in front of state officials regarding this manner. Silicon Alley formed from this.

With technology follows money. Lots of it it. Many of the big VCs/angel groups dumping cake into Bitcoin businesses are here in NY, along with many of the companies listed in those subpoenas. These guys aren't they type to sit around and wait for someone to tell them it's okay to do something. They want answers to sure up their investments.

A beacon was sent out and this is the first formal response.

Huh. That's actually fairly interesting, but I can't help but wonder if they've actually *achieved* their goal of improved tech-industry-friendliness in the last several years. I'm not sure that the formation of a tech-oriented locale actually demonstrates that.

Time will tell.

You're totally right about that. Ask most they will say NY has not accomplished what they set out to do.

westkybitcoins

legendary

Activity: 980

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Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!

Quote from: jedunnigan on August 13, 2013, 08:14:22 PM

Quote from: westkybitcoins on August 13, 2013, 06:06:22 PM

Quote from: jedunnigan on August 13, 2013, 05:36:41 PM

Quote

As innovative products emerge, it is critical to take steps that allow new technologies and industries to flourish, while also working to ensure that consumers and our national security remain protected.
...
As such, the Department of Financial Services (DFS) has launched an inquiry into the appropriate regulatory guidelines that it should put in place for virtual currencies.

Ignore all the mamzy pamzy anti terrorist nonsense and you get to what they are after: hey we see that our regulatory framework might not best suited for digital currencies and we are afraid to stifle innovation but we are also unwilling to allow illegal activity to go on. Please prove to us you aren't doing anything illegal and tell us how your business works so we can start to figure this thing out.

This is the State of New York we're talking about. I don't for one second believe they're as benignly concerned as your post would suggest.

The only reason I will stand by my point in this conversation is because I have some (in)direct knowledge about the tech sector here in NY. For the past few (7-9) years quite a bit of discussion has gone on about how to make NY more attractive to technology companies. I even know a guy who spoke on panels on behalf of the tech community in front of state officials regarding this manner. Silicon Alley formed from this.

With technology follows money. Lots of it it. Many of the big VCs/angel groups dumping cake into Bitcoin businesses are here in NY, along with many of the companies listed in those subpoenas. These guys aren't they type to sit around and wait for someone to tell them it's okay to do something. They want answers to sure up their investments.

A beacon was sent out and this is the first formal response.

Huh. That's actually fairly interesting, but I can't help but wonder if they've actually *achieved* their goal of improved tech-industry-friendliness in the last several years. I'm not sure that the formation of a tech-oriented locale actually demonstrates that.

Time will tell.

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

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Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: Paladin69 on August 13, 2013, 08:15:24 PM

Probably time to start writing your senator and congressman. We have a few friends in DC now.

... better yet forward them an ounce of the finest from SR to demonstrate how effective bitcoins really are ...

(ps: kids and idiots should not try this at home)

Paladin69

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Probably time to start writing your senator and congressman. We have a few friends in DC now.

jedunnigan

sr. member

Activity: 279

Merit: 250

Quote from: westkybitcoins on August 13, 2013, 06:06:22 PM

Quote from: jedunnigan on August 13, 2013, 05:36:41 PM

Quote

As innovative products emerge, it is critical to take steps that allow new technologies and industries to flourish, while also working to ensure that consumers and our national security remain protected.
...
As such, the Department of Financial Services (DFS) has launched an inquiry into the appropriate regulatory guidelines that it should put in place for virtual currencies.

Ignore all the mamzy pamzy anti terrorist nonsense and you get to what they are after: hey we see that our regulatory framework might not best suited for digital currencies and we are afraid to stifle innovation but we are also unwilling to allow illegal activity to go on. Please prove to us you aren't doing anything illegal and tell us how your business works so we can start to figure this thing out.

This is the State of New York we're talking about. I don't for one second believe they're as benignly concerned as your post would suggest.

The only reason I will stand by my point in this conversation is because I have some (in)direct knowledge about the tech sector here in NY. For the past few (7-9) years quite a bit of discussion has gone on about how to make NY more attractive to technology companies. I even know a guy who spoke on panels on behalf of the tech community in front of state officials regarding this manner. Silicon Alley formed from this.

With technology follows money. Lots of it it. Many of the big VCs/angel groups dumping cake into Bitcoin businesses are here in NY, along with many of the companies listed in those subpoenas. These guys aren't they type to sit around and wait for someone to tell them it's okay to do something. They want answers to sure up their investments.

A beacon was sent out and this is the first formal response.

westkybitcoins

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1004

Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!

Quote from: TippingPoint on August 13, 2013, 06:41:54 PM

Worst case, government(s) could ban the purchase, sale, transfer, or possession of Bitcoins, by executive order.

That would be one of the worst things they could do. Plenty of early adopters would love that, as the price for bitcoins in the U.S. would surge as a result.

billotronic

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Crackpot Idealist

Quote from: TippingPoint on August 13, 2013, 01:01:38 PM

Time to put a face on the name.

Benjamin Lawsky

http://www.youtube.com/v/cDQk4lGSEJQ

jimbobway

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Quote from: JackH on August 13, 2013, 06:34:59 PM

I dont get this, how exactly will they ACTUALLY stop Bitcoin? There is talk, more talk and even more talk. All the rules and regulations in the world, wont do shit to Bitcoin. The reality is that thousands of users ARE using it, regardless of what someone is saying, simply because they know they cannot be touched. So what is this all for? One last hurrah by regulators?

Note that all of the bitcoin companies that received a notice of inquiry are U.S. based companies. Bitcoin is a worldwide phenomenon and there is no way the U.S. can control companies beyond the borders of their jurisdiction. I think the employees of the NY regulator who does research on bitcoin knows that bitcoin cannot be regulated. However, they are paid by the state to do their job and write reports. I bet that deep down in their hearts they know it is futile to control bitcoin. They probably have bills to pay or a family to feed so they perform their jobs on a daily basis to earn their income. It is unfortunate, though, that the leadership is muddling through the facts without acknowledging the truth. I hope through the inquiries that it is the bitcoin companies that give the N.Y. regulators guidance instead of the other way around.

acoindr

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Quote from: TippingPoint on August 13, 2013, 06:41:54 PM

Worst case, government(s) could ban the purchase, sale, transfer, or possession of Bitcoins, by executive order.

As I pointed out before bitcoins are actually stored in the cloud on thousands of computers worldwide. To "own" bitcoins really only means you know the private key allowing them to be sent somewhere else. Since brain wallets can store any number of bitcoins a law banning possession literally means telling people what they can and can't think.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

No law prevents any "criminal" from doing anything. If everyone becomes a "criminal" merely for exercising their civil liberties (and we all are, committing 3 felonies a day according to http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229 ), then very few can ever suffer "punishment". The government can only use fear of punishment for violating more laws than any human being can possibly comprehend as its stick, not imprison every single person/"criminal" that it "rules".

TippingPoint

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Worst case, government(s) could ban the purchase, sale, transfer, or possession of Bitcoins, by executive order.

Government(s) could ban the purchase, sale, or transfer of Bitcoins without a license and associated detailed "record keeping".

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: JackH on August 13, 2013, 06:34:59 PM

I dont get this, how exactly will they ACTUALLY stop Bitcoin? There is talk, more talk and even more talk. All the rules and regulations in the world, wont do shit to Bitcoin. The reality is that thousands of users ARE using it, regardless of what someone is saying, simply because they know they cannot be touched. So what is this all for? One last hurrah by regulators?

They can't stop Bitcoin "core" but they can make it prohibitively expensive/difficult to operate as an entity on the line between virtual and fiat. They can either those malice or ignorance drive out most of the competitors in the US, leaving only a few massively capitalized entities (next gen banks) to remain. Granted Bitcoin itself will "go on", and no the US isn't the whole world, but it doesn't make it good news.

JackH

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Activity: 381

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I dont get this, how exactly will they ACTUALLY stop Bitcoin? There is talk, more talk and even more talk. All the rules and regulations in the world, wont do shit to Bitcoin. The reality is that thousands of users ARE using it, regardless of what someone is saying, simply because they know they cannot be touched. So what is this all for? One last hurrah by regulators?

westkybitcoins

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1004

Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!

Quote from: jedunnigan on August 13, 2013, 05:36:41 PM

Quote

As innovative products emerge, it is critical to take steps that allow new technologies and industries to flourish, while also working to ensure that consumers and our national security remain protected.
...
As such, the Department of Financial Services (DFS) has launched an inquiry into the appropriate regulatory guidelines that it should put in place for virtual currencies.

Ignore all the mamzy pamzy anti terrorist nonsense and you get to what they are after: hey we see that our regulatory framework might not best suited for digital currencies and we are afraid to stifle innovation but we are also unwilling to allow illegal activity to go on. Please prove to us you aren't doing anything illegal and tell us how your business works so we can start to figure this thing out.

This is the State of New York we're talking about. I don't for one second believe they're as benignly concerned as your post would suggest.

Topic: NY regulator memo: Notice of Inquiry on Virtual Currencies - page 2. (Read 14699 times)