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Topic: Obama issues executive order claiming power to seize Americans' bank accounts (Read 3551 times)

hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500

You do not understand much about healthcare.  There is much to be gained by streamlining and diagnosing early.  The worst part of all is RIGHT NOW we are ALL PAYING to care for those who do not have insurance.  It is done in the ER and the cost is passed on to you in higher healthcare costs.  UNLESS YOU TURN PEOPLE AWAY TOTALLY YOU WILL PAY THIS COST.  


Please provide some data on that. From what I have seen almost all of the money goes towards chronic conditions for those over 55. ER bills are nothing compared to that.

I heard (though I can't guarantee it's veracity) that the cost of screening everyone for everything they might have (but don't) far outweighs the potential savings. Of course, it'd be nice for the individuals to get early treatment and not die horribly but in terms of sheer economics, it's a policy that pushes the cost of healthcare up (and we have nowhere near enough healthcare providers for it anyway).

Real world experience in most of the 1st world disagrees.  Regular checkups (not screening everyone for everything) do save money.  

Or maybe the rest of the world values saved lives over the cost. 

I worry you are basing these claims on shaky data (like of the quality normally presented in the news). Nothing is ever that simple, it always depends on context. For example, perhaps regular checkups for those over 55 or with some other risk factor saves money, but not for large swaths of people. Regular could also be like once every 10 years.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1004
Obama passed a law so insurance companies can't let customers use co-pays for prescriptions now. I was paying $200 a month for insurance and got my prescriptions for $15 bucks, now I pay $200 a month for my prescriptions and have no insurance. Obama is completely screwing health care, ask anyone who works in the field. He does whatever he want's whether it's legal or not, there will always be some ignorant fools to back him up.

Explain what happened..  Did your insurance bill go up and you decided not to pay? 

Sounds fishy because Obamacare has not changed things in relations to co-pays on prescriptions.  Obamacare has made it so insurance companies cannot charge for preventative checkups (that save money long term) as well as birth control (which also saves money).



No it wen't down $20 because they couldn't offer the same plans. It went from $15 copay to $1,800 a year deductible.  Up until a couple months ago generic prescriptions could be covered with a copay. Now if a insurance company wants to offer a copay they need to included brand name drugs. Which is not a affordable option, so copay's have been removed. I've been told this by a few people that work at Lifewise. I have looked around for alternatives and the only plans I've seen with smaller deductibles, more then make up for in monthly charges.

Well again Obamacare did not make the change you refer to.

Insurance companies are allowed to charge co-pays for drugs.  They are allowed to charge different co-pays for different classes of drugs or have no co-pay at all.  Requiring a co-pay does not trigger a need for brand name drugs.  You must be referring to a state law change. 
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Obama passed a law so insurance companies can't let customers use co-pays for prescriptions now. I was paying $200 a month for insurance and got my prescriptions for $15 bucks, now I pay $200 a month for my prescriptions and have no insurance. Obama is completely screwing health care, ask anyone who works in the field. He does whatever he want's whether it's legal or not, there will always be some ignorant fools to back him up.

Explain what happened..  Did your insurance bill go up and you decided not to pay? 

Sounds fishy because Obamacare has not changed things in relations to co-pays on prescriptions.  Obamacare has made it so insurance companies cannot charge for preventative checkups (that save money long term) as well as birth control (which also saves money).



No it wen't down $20 because they couldn't offer the same plans. It went from $15 copay to $1,800 a year deductible.  Up until a couple months ago generic prescriptions could be covered with a copay. Now if a insurance company wants to offer a copay they need to included brand name drugs. Which is not a affordable option, so copay's have been removed. I've been told this by a few people that work at Lifewise. I have looked around for alternatives and the only plans I've seen with smaller deductibles, more then make up for in monthly charges.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1004

You do not understand much about healthcare.  There is much to be gained by streamlining and diagnosing early.  The worst part of all is RIGHT NOW we are ALL PAYING to care for those who do not have insurance.  It is done in the ER and the cost is passed on to you in higher healthcare costs.  UNLESS YOU TURN PEOPLE AWAY TOTALLY YOU WILL PAY THIS COST.  


Please provide some data on that. From what I have seen almost all of the money goes towards chronic conditions for those over 55. ER bills are nothing compared to that.

I heard (though I can't guarantee it's veracity) that the cost of screening everyone for everything they might have (but don't) far outweighs the potential savings. Of course, it'd be nice for the individuals to get early treatment and not die horribly but in terms of sheer economics, it's a policy that pushes the cost of healthcare up (and we have nowhere near enough healthcare providers for it anyway).

Real world experience in most of the 1st world disagrees.  Regular checkups (not screening everyone for everything) do save money.  

Or maybe the rest of the world values saved lives over the cost. 
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k

You do not understand much about healthcare.  There is much to be gained by streamlining and diagnosing early.  The worst part of all is RIGHT NOW we are ALL PAYING to care for those who do not have insurance.  It is done in the ER and the cost is passed on to you in higher healthcare costs.  UNLESS YOU TURN PEOPLE AWAY TOTALLY YOU WILL PAY THIS COST. 


Please provide some data on that. From what I have seen almost all of the money goes towards chronic conditions for those over 55. ER bills are nothing compared to that.

I heard (though I can't guarantee it's veracity) that the cost of screening everyone for everything they might have (but don't) far outweighs the potential savings. Of course, it'd be nice for the individuals to get early treatment and not die horribly but in terms of sheer economics, it's a policy that pushes the cost of healthcare up (and we have nowhere near enough healthcare providers for it anyway).
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 2267
1RichyTrEwPYjZSeAYxeiFBNnKC9UjC5k
And to-date, I have never met an intelligent, college educated, "liberal" who joined the ranks of the "real world" and turned conservative.

Pleased to make your acquaintance.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1004
Obama passed a law so insurance companies can't let customers use co-pays for prescriptions now. I was paying $200 a month for insurance and got my prescriptions for $15 bucks, now I pay $200 a month for my prescriptions and have no insurance. Obama is completely screwing health care, ask anyone who works in the field. He does whatever he want's whether it's legal or not, there will always be some ignorant fools to back him up.

Explain what happened..  Did your insurance bill go up and you decided not to pay? 

Sounds fishy because Obamacare has not changed things in relations to co-pays on prescriptions.  Obamacare has made it so insurance companies cannot charge for preventative checkups (that save money long term) as well as birth control (which also saves money).



hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Obama passed a law so insurance companies can't let customers use co-pays for prescriptions now. I was paying $200 a month for insurance and got my prescriptions for $15 bucks, now I pay $200 a month for my prescriptions and have no insurance. Obama is completely screwing health care, ask anyone who works in the field. He does whatever he want's whether it's legal or not, there will always be some ignorant fools to back him up.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500

You do not understand much about healthcare.  There is much to be gained by streamlining and diagnosing early.  The worst part of all is RIGHT NOW we are ALL PAYING to care for those who do not have insurance.  It is done in the ER and the cost is passed on to you in higher healthcare costs.  UNLESS YOU TURN PEOPLE AWAY TOTALLY YOU WILL PAY THIS COST.  


Please provide some data on that. From what I have seen almost all of the money goes towards chronic conditions for those over 55. ER bills are nothing compared to that.

The cost of caring for people in the ER is not represented in the ER only.  The cost of many of the ER bills is NOT PAID.  It is then distributed over all of the other bills because the hospital needs to stay in business.   Over testing is a huge problem cost and Obamacare reduces this but does not eliminate it.  Proper tort reform would help here.  Finally malpractice insurance cost is passed on to all patients because of the lack of tort reform.  



I like data. What is the total cost of ER bills not paid per year? What is the total amount paid out per year for malpractice insurance? How have these numbers changed over time?

edit: I mean it was your claim so I assume you have looked into it. I have looked into where the money comes from and its purpose as it enters the medical system (and can post that data, from a big study of approx 40k people IIRC) but not yet where it goes after.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1004

You do not understand much about healthcare.  There is much to be gained by streamlining and diagnosing early.  The worst part of all is RIGHT NOW we are ALL PAYING to care for those who do not have insurance.  It is done in the ER and the cost is passed on to you in higher healthcare costs.  UNLESS YOU TURN PEOPLE AWAY TOTALLY YOU WILL PAY THIS COST. 


Please provide some data on that. From what I have seen almost all of the money goes towards chronic conditions for those over 55. ER bills are nothing compared to that.

The cost of caring for people in the ER is not represented in the ER only.  The cost of many of the ER bills is NOT PAID.  It is then distributed over all of the other bills because the hospital needs to stay in business.   Over testing is a huge problem cost and Obamacare reduces this but does not eliminate it.  Proper tort reform would help here.  Finally malpractice insurance cost is passed on to all patients because of the lack of tort reform. 

legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1006
Because having a way to stop a person with the means and motive to be a flight risk is always bad.

Rights...........

They suck when you want to have power over others.

If all citizens had no rights, except the rights dictators decide we are worthy of, it would be much easier to catch the terrorists.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
The worst part of all is RIGHT NOW we are ALL PAYING to care for those who do not have insurance.  It is done in the ER and the cost is passed on to you in higher healthcare costs.  UNLESS YOU ALLOW HOSPITALS TO TURN PEOPLE AWAY YOU WILL PAY THIS COST. 

Fixed. The laws requiring emergency care to be given regardless of ability to pay are only a small part of the problem, though.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500

You do not understand much about healthcare.  There is much to be gained by streamlining and diagnosing early.  The worst part of all is RIGHT NOW we are ALL PAYING to care for those who do not have insurance.  It is done in the ER and the cost is passed on to you in higher healthcare costs.  UNLESS YOU TURN PEOPLE AWAY TOTALLY YOU WILL PAY THIS COST. 


Please provide some data on that. From what I have seen almost all of the money goes towards chronic conditions for those over 55. ER bills are nothing compared to that.
hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
Yes, and where do you think the money for a), b), and c) come from?  From future taxes that will hinder our economy.  You may enjoy the benefits today, but you and I and everyone else will be paying for it down the road in the form of higher taxes and devaluation of our money through increased inflation.

The working class generally votes republican, because they understand personal responsibility and sustainability.  The welfare-recipients (of which I'll include you in, since you are reaping benefits at the expense of taxpayers as mentioned above) generally vote democrat, because they want "more free stuff".  Or at the very least, they don't want their free stuff taken away.

Ah yes, paying for things with taxes. Last I checked, that's how things worked in every developed country. And I pay taxes. I pay Federal, State, Social Security, Medicare, and Capital Gains. And you know what? Tax me a bit more..especially if it helps to subsidize the $160 a month I pay in health insurance...or if it helps my sister avoid $430 a month in healthcare premiums because she has a preexisting condition.

But let me guess...none of this applies to you. Do you have to worry about healthcare? Do you have to worry about absurd education costs? Guess what, in my experience and where I'm from the "working class" doesn't. Know why? Because they never pursued higher education (they barely finished high school), so they never have to worry about paying $550 a month in student loans as I do. They work in Unions, which provide ample pay and healthcare coverage.

My friend, it doesn't matter what party you're in or who you vote for that causes you to understand personal responsibility and sustainability. Regardless of who is brought into Office, America really needs to grow up, put on their big boy pants, and join the ranks of more developed countries like Canada, Greenland, Spain, France, United Kingdom, Germany, Denmark, Switzerland, Netherlands, Austria, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Japan, Australia, and tons of others. Each of those countries is better at taking care of their citizens than we are.

Similarly, this is why you see college campuses filled with liberal-minded people - they aren't working for a living yet, and don't understand how their utopian dreams have real-world consequences. It's why those same people eventually turn conservative when they get out in "the real world" and begin to tire of seeing people gaming the system, stealing their tax dollars to sit on the couch and watch TV while they work hard to provide for themselves.

Ah yes, college churns out liberals every day! Do you know why that is? I think the term is "Education"...

And to-date, I have never met an intelligent, college educated, "liberal" who joined the ranks of the "real world" and turned conservative. I've lived in four states and visited dozens, and I have never encountered this phenomenon. Where do you live were you apparently see it often?

It's sad, really.  More and more of the US populace is dependent on government aid, and that's only our own doing, electing people who give out money like it has no consequence.  The easier it is to acquire free aid from the government (and it seems to be getting easier every day), the more people we will find who choose to not work a day in their lives, the less productive our country will be, and the more difficult it will be to balance the governmental budget without increasing taxes heavily.

[sarcasm] Definitely. Don't you know, 47% of American's depend on the government for every whim! It must be true because a Republican stated it behind closed doors at an all white...whoops, I mean "rich"...dinner party, and Fox News said so. [/sarcasm]

Think about more than just the benefits you are receiving today.  Think about how those benefits will affect your tomorrow.

Indeed I am. I'm thinking very long term...which is why I'm voting with my head this election, and not my wallet.

If you still think college=learning or insurance=good healthcare, I don't think your education was worth it. I guess I didn't realize it until about 3 years into grad school though. The college liberals don't understand the world around them at all, I should know since I was one. All the things you mentioned that you think is helping you and others are actually slow scams. They are ponzi schemes become jobs programs the government had to step in and force people to participate in once they got too big to fail, every now and then something of value comes out of it but that is not the main purpose.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1004
Yes, and where do you think the money for a), b), and c) come from?  From future taxes that will hinder our economy.  You may enjoy the benefits today, but you and I and everyone else will be paying for it down the road in the form of higher taxes and devaluation of our money through increased inflation.

You do not understand much about healthcare.  There is much to be gained by streamlining and diagnosing early.  The worst part of all is RIGHT NOW we are ALL PAYING to care for those who do not have insurance.  It is done in the ER and the cost is passed on to you in higher healthcare costs.  UNLESS YOU TURN PEOPLE AWAY TOTALLY YOU WILL PAY THIS COST. 

I do not like Obama care, but the cost of the program is not nearly as great as partisans imply.  A properly designed program (which Obamacare is NOT) could save a huge amount of money for this country. 


The working class generally votes republican, because they understand personal responsibility and sustainability.  The welfare-recipients (of which I'll include you in, since you are reaping benefits at the expense of taxpayers as mentioned above) generally vote democrat, because they want "more free stuff".  Or at the very least, they don't want their free stuff taken away.

That is just pure propaganda.   Your smarter then that (I hope).

We really need voters who look deeper into the issues.   People who do not follow party over country.  Right now you will not ever balance the budget without compromise.  Both Obama and Romney have drawn lines in the sand that if they stick to them will bankrupt this country. 


legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
Indeed I am. I'm thinking very long term...which is why I'm voting with my head this election, and not my wallet.

But I thought you said you were voting for Obama? Wink

Ha! touché  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
Indeed I am. I'm thinking very long term...which is why I'm voting with my head this election, and not my wallet.

But I thought you said you were voting for Obama? Wink
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
Yes, and where do you think the money for a), b), and c) come from?  From future taxes that will hinder our economy.  You may enjoy the benefits today, but you and I and everyone else will be paying for it down the road in the form of higher taxes and devaluation of our money through increased inflation.

The working class generally votes republican, because they understand personal responsibility and sustainability.  The welfare-recipients (of which I'll include you in, since you are reaping benefits at the expense of taxpayers as mentioned above) generally vote democrat, because they want "more free stuff".  Or at the very least, they don't want their free stuff taken away.

Ah yes, paying for things with taxes. Last I checked, that's how things worked in every developed country. And I pay taxes. I pay Federal, State, Social Security, Medicare, and Capital Gains. And you know what? Tax me a bit more..especially if it helps to subsidize the $160 a month I pay in health insurance...or if it helps my sister avoid $430 a month in healthcare premiums because she has a preexisting condition.

But let me guess...none of this applies to you. Do you have to worry about healthcare? Do you have to worry about absurd education costs? Guess what, in my experience and where I'm from the "working class" doesn't. Know why? Because they never pursued higher education (they barely finished high school), so they never have to worry about paying $550 a month in student loans as I do. They work in Unions, which provide ample pay and healthcare coverage.

My friend, it doesn't matter what party you're in or who you vote for that causes you to understand personal responsibility and sustainability. Regardless of who is brought into Office, America really needs to grow up, put on their big boy pants, and join the ranks of more developed countries like Canada, Greenland, Spain, France, United Kingdom, Germany, Denmark, Switzerland, Netherlands, Austria, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Japan, Australia, and tons of others. Each of those countries is better at taking care of their citizens than we are.

Similarly, this is why you see college campuses filled with liberal-minded people - they aren't working for a living yet, and don't understand how their utopian dreams have real-world consequences. It's why those same people eventually turn conservative when they get out in "the real world" and begin to tire of seeing people gaming the system, stealing their tax dollars to sit on the couch and watch TV while they work hard to provide for themselves.

Ah yes, college churns out liberals every day! Do you know why that is? I think the term is "Education"...

And to-date, I have never met an intelligent, college educated, "liberal" who joined the ranks of the "real world" and turned conservative..."liberal" is the term for a crazy leftist, just as "conservative" is the term for a crazy rightist. To switch sides that easily would you mean you're either incredibly mentally unstable, or just easily persuaded without any effort. I've lived in four states and visited dozens, and I have never encountered this phenomenon. Where do you live were you apparently see it often?

It's sad, really.  More and more of the US populace is dependent on government aid, and that's only our own doing, electing people who give out money like it has no consequence.  The easier it is to acquire free aid from the government (and it seems to be getting easier every day), the more people we will find who choose to not work a day in their lives, the less productive our country will be, and the more difficult it will be to balance the governmental budget without increasing taxes heavily.

[sarcasm] Definitely. Don't you know, 47% of American's depend on the government for every whim! It must be true because a Republican stated it behind closed doors at an all white...whoops, I mean "rich"...dinner party, and Fox News said so. [/sarcasm]

Think about more than just the benefits you are receiving today.  Think about how those benefits will affect your tomorrow.

Indeed I am. I'm thinking very long term...which is why I'm voting with my head this election, and not my wallet.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
The working class generally votes republican, because they understand personal responsibility and sustainability.  The welfare-recipients (of which I'll include you in, since you are reaping benefits at the expense of taxpayers as mentioned above) generally vote democrat, because they want "more free stuff".  Or at the very least, they don't want their free stuff taken away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1020
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