obsolete bitcoin investment advices [change needed]

pawel7777

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Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

2. Invest what you are able to lose;
I have a question!
Who has ever lost in bitcoin?

Are you serious? Anyone who bought in at above the current price is at a loss. "You don't lose if you don't sell" is nonsense and nothing but a coping mechanism.

Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

But with bitcoin having proven that it can resuscitate after crash, the advice should be rephrased as Invest what you will not be needing in the next few years. It will not be advisable to use the money meant for your childrens school fees for bitcoin. Just have an investment budget from your income that will not negative alter your living state.

What you're proposing is not much different from "don't invest more than you can afford to lose", the only difference is that you seem to guarantee that BTC will keep breaking the new ATH every "few" years. Nobody can predict what will happen in the next few years, and there are good arguments out there for the next cycle to not reach the previous ATH.
I'm sure you wouldn't be giving such guarantees outside of an anonymous forum if you could face legal consequences for giving bad investment advice.

Outhue

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If your plan is too make a fortune from Bitcoin investment, your spare money can still get you there, I am sorry to say this OP, your first point is utterly stupidity, when you are asked to invest your spare money it's for your own good.

A bear market can take up to 2 and a half years and we don't know how long this bear market will last, imagine this takes 3 long years and you invest money that you will need after a year, won't you end up selling your Bitcoin for loss because you need the money after a year? This is why using spare money that you won't be needing in the short or long term is the best.

You can still make a lot with spare money investing in Bitcoin, the longer the bear market the better, if you can successfully invest 300$ in Bitcoin per month, in twelve months that is 3600$ and in three years you would have invested 10,800$, and since you are taking advantage of the bear market you will still make some good amount of money, now imagine if Bitcoin does a 6x in a bull market.

Silberman

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Quote from: kryptqnick on May 28, 2023, 10:13:12 AM

I believe that investing spare money and investing what one can afford to lose are basically the same thing because if it's spare money, it means you can afford to lose it, and if you can't afford to lose it, it's not spare money.
Investing what you won't need in the next few years isn't a bad alternative, but it's also somewhat risky because there's no guarantee that Bitcoin will always recover and always grow, so at some point it might not be better or the same in a few years.
DYOR isn't bad either, since at least basic understanding of what you're putting your money into is required, and so is personal financial responsibility.

Correct, investing in bitcoin money that we cannot afford to lose will make holding our position way harder and could force us to sell at the worst possible time, meaning that taking such a risk is simply not worth it, and this means the guideline of not investing more than what we can afford to lose should still be followed, now depending on the expenses of each person what we can afford to lose is different for each one of us, however regardless of the amount we can invest in bitcoin this is a better alternative than to just hold our fiat or to put it in a bank.

Accardo

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Quote from: Bananington on May 27, 2023, 05:15:14 PM

Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

In today's bitcoin, we know that if you invest with your spare money you may never make any fortune from bitcoin.

Spare money does not mean small money, don't misunderstand the two. Spare money is the money that is not included in your budget for expenses, or money that you budget to invest in bitcoins after you have sorted out other financial problems.

Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

2. Invest what you are able to lose;
3. DYOR (Do your own research):

These two are also still very valid, these are tips that never go out of need and everyone needs to always be reminded about it constantly that is why it is always being mentioned. If they are not said, they will be forgotten and people especially new Investors will make mistakes.

Spare money is as good as investing what we are able to lose. And in the OP's thoughts, Investing into bitcoin with funds that'll be required anytime soon by the investor can lead to losses in bitcoin. Hence, investing in bitcoin for quick profits has nothing to do with spare cash. Like you defined spare cash, if a person invests into bitcoin the money they are able to lose they'll gain enough profits; that should be the reason behind the number 2 advise. Because, they'll consider the investment as a lost money and don't remember to check up on it for a while, given time the money will accumulate to a substantial amount of profits.

kryptqnick

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I believe that investing spare money and investing what one can afford to lose are basically the same thing because if it's spare money, it means you can afford to lose it, and if you can't afford to lose it, it's not spare money.
Investing what you won't need in the next few years isn't a bad alternative, but it's also somewhat risky because there's no guarantee that Bitcoin will always recover and always grow, so at some point it might not be better or the same in a few years.
DYOR isn't bad either, since at least basic understanding of what you're putting your money into is required, and so is personal financial responsibility.

hatshepsut93

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I don't buy this idea that Bitcoin is today fundamentally different, that more hodlers, higher price and higher trade volumes mean that Bitcoin can't crash. Whether Bitcoin can crash or not depends only on the determination of holders. And no one is researching that, no one is conducting surveys, people cherry-pick statements of high-profile investors like Saylor to make an argument that Bitcoin is now "solid". But volatility is as high as in the early days.

SOKO-DEKE

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Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

2mins 20s read.

1. Invest in Bitcoin with your spare money:
I can say that this advice is not necessary in today's bitcoin world.

If nobody can actually predict what will happen to Bitcoin market price in future but can only assume about the price, why should someone go ahead and invested all his /her money in bitcoin? For anyone that understand that Bitcoin is volatile in nature that should be clear to everyone that we should not invested huge amounts of money that may affect us in bitcoin, so the best is to invest small amounts of money that will not affect us even anything happens in cryptocurrency industry.

Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

2mins 20s read.

Invest what you will not be needing in the next few years. It will not be advisable to use the money meant for your childrens school fees for bitcoin. Just have an investment budget from your income that will not negative alter your living state. Then, when you invest for 3yrs to 5yrs duration, there's no how bitcoin will fail you.

Yes, it is confirmed by early investors and it is also demonstrated by the history of Bitcoin that long-term investors always profit from their Bitcoin investments significantly due to the bull run period that long-term investors to experience. Therefore, holding Bitcoin for a long period of time, at least 5 years, hardly makes us to lose in our Bitcoin investment but likely to give us profits, and that is why we need to invest only money we may not have the uses in the nearest future.

Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

2mins 20s read.

3. DYOR (Do your own research):
This advice should be for altcoin investors. If I may ask, what kind of research is one, especially a newbie expected to make in bitcoin. Are they researching the road map of bitcoin or are they researching the developers behind it? The right thing is to know when to buy. Simply buy low and sell high.

Even in terms of Bitcoin, not just with regard to alternative coins, our personal research is crucial because it can provide us with sufficient proof of Bitcoin and help us determine how much trust to place in our Bitcoin investment. In fact, personal research can help us determine how much will be sweet to invest in Bitcoin.

Issa56

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Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

1. Invest in Bitcoin with your spare money:
I can say that this advice is not necessary in today's bitcoin world. This advice was only relevant like a decade ago when bitcoin was been seen with alot of skepticism. Some saw bitcoin as gambling, some saw it as a ponze scheme while others saw it as a bubble the will burst.
In today's bitcoin, we know that if you invest with your spare money you may never make any fortune from bitcoin.

I keep on saying it and I will continue to say it, always invest your spare money, don't invest what you think will affect you after making investment, you don't have to starve just because you want to invest, have seen some people investing almost all their money in bitcoin, which at the end they won't be feeding well. I will still say it again invest your spare money.

Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

2. Invest what you are able to lose;
I have a question!
Who has ever lost in bitcoin? I do not find this advice pleasant to bitcoin. Although, this is a kind of general advice for assets that are volatile. But with bitcoin having proven that it can resuscitate after crash, the advice should be rephrased as Invest what you will not be needing in the next few years. It will not be advisable to use the money meant for your childrens school fees for bitcoin. Just have an investment budget from your income that will not negative alter your living state. Then, when you invest for 3yrs to 5yrs duration, there's no how bitcoin will fail you.

Don't think because everyone have been saying invest in bitcoin and then you will end up selling your propertie and investing in bitcoin, it's really wrong, their is risk in every investment and we all have to always apply risk management, in bitcoin investing any amount you can afford to lose is part of risk management, I won't recommend anyone to invest all their money in bitcoin.

Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

3. DYOR (Do your own research):
This advice should be for altcoin investors. If I may ask, what kind of research is one, especially a newbie expected to make in bitcoin. Are they researching the road map of bitcoin or are they researching the developers behind it? The right thing is to know when to buy. Simply buy low and sell high.

If am introducing bitcoin to a newbie, then I will tell them to go and do more research, they should go on their own to learn about bitcoin, what bitcoin is all about, what's bitcoin aim, and other necessary things I think the person should know. I won't just introduce you to bitcoin and I will ask you to invest immediately, we should all have proper understanding about what bitcoin is all about.

panganib999

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Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

2mins 20s read.

I really feel that some bitcoin investment advices are obsolete and shouldn't be given anyone again or atleast they should be rephrased to fit the current status and position of bitcoin in today's society.

I will highlight some of the advices and the reasons they should be modified.

1. Invest in Bitcoin with your spare money:
I can say that this advice is not necessary in today's bitcoin world. This advice was only relevant like a decade ago when bitcoin was been seen with alot of skepticism. Some saw bitcoin as gambling, some saw it as a ponze scheme while others saw it as a bubble the will burst.
In today's bitcoin, we know that if you invest with your spare money you may never make any fortune from bitcoin.

2. Invest what you are able to lose;
I have a question!
Who has ever lost in bitcoin? I do not find this advice pleasant to bitcoin. Although, this is a kind of general advice for assets that are volatile. But with bitcoin having proven that it can resuscitate after crash, the advice should be rephrased as Invest what you will not be needing in the next few years. It will not be advisable to use the money meant for your childrens school fees for bitcoin. Just have an investment budget from your income that will not negative alter your living state. Then, when you invest for 3yrs to 5yrs duration, there's no how bitcoin will fail you.

Besides I have known people that put their retirement money into bitcoin
And
I have also seen people that have all their savings in bitcoin. What do you have to tell them?

3. DYOR (Do your own research):
This advice should be for altcoin investors. If I may ask, what kind of research is one, especially a newbie expected to make in bitcoin. Are they researching the road map of bitcoin or are they researching the developers behind it? The right thing is to know when to buy. Simply buy low and sell high.

These and some more are bothering me, I decided to let it out so that we will begin to appreciate bitcoin and not to continue seeing it as it was 10 years ago.

No advice is obsolete for a coin that is as volatile as bitcoin. We've experienced long bear markets and grueling drops in price that left some of us here on the verge of suicide and you're telling me that these advices aren't as relevant as they were in the past? That's just stupid man.

Not everyone's as rich or as safe as you when it comes to investments, most of the time these people who're dipping their toes on bitcoin for the first time are those with a lot to lose either financially or whatever. To say that the "invest what you are able to lose" advice is not relevant anymore cause "you haven't heard of people who lost in bitcoin" is just dumb. Have heard of a lot of stories here just this past few years of people who lost so much that they are already contemplating self-harm.

Be more sensitive will ya? Just cause it worked out for you doesn't mean it worked out for everyone. Read a goddamn book.

Bananington

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Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

In today's bitcoin, we know that if you invest with your spare money you may never make any fortune from bitcoin.

Spare money does not mean small money, don't misunderstand the two. Spare money is the money that is not included in your budget for expenses, or money that you budget to invest in bitcoins after you have sorted out other financial problems.

Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

2. Invest what you are able to lose;
3. DYOR (Do your own research):

These two are also still very valid, these are tips that never go out of need and everyone needs to always be reminded about it constantly that is why it is always being mentioned. If they are not said, they will be forgotten and people especially new Investors will make mistakes.

wiss19

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Your modified advice for the second one is basically what the first advice is all about. Isn't "Invest what you don't need for the next few years" the same as "Invest in Bitcoin with your spare money"? Yes, it is, spare money simply means money that you don't need to spend right now, it's like savings or the part of your salary that doesn't go for the household or overall expenses of the month.

And, I don't think that doing research is only to find out if the coin is worth investing in or not, research conducted can also be aimed to find information and knowledge about a particular thing. So if I ask someone to do their research before they invest, it can also mean that I want them to know Bitcoin before they get into it.

Lanatsa

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Quote from: Silberman on May 25, 2023, 04:51:22 PM

Quote from: Zoomic on May 22, 2023, 08:58:45 AM

Quote from: Hyphen(-) on May 20, 2023, 09:18:07 AM

Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

1. Invest in Bitcoin with your spare money:
I can say that this advice is not necessary in today's bitcoin world. This advice was only relevant like a decade ago when bitcoin was been seen with alot of skepticism. Some saw bitcoin as gambling, some saw it as a ponze scheme while others saw it as a bubble the will burst.
In today's bitcoin, we know that if you invest with your spare money you may never make any fortune from bitcoin.

If you use your entire money to invest in Bitcoin, then which money are you going to use for your personal upkeep? Does that mean anytime you need money, you should sell the Bitcoin you have stocked in your wallet? NO. That is why the advice to invest your spare money in Bitcoin is always good for new investors, so that they can buy Bitcoin with the aim of holding it for a long time.

You have missed the point. Not investing with your spare money does not mean you should invest all you have. What I mean, anyone still investing in bitcoin today with a spare money is a very big joke. You can budget your and be fine in bitcoin investment.
For instance, if you earn $1000 monthly, after removing your living expenses and emergency fund, you can decide to invest 5 to 10% in bitcoin. This is not a spare money and it is not also a living expense money and neither is it an emergency fund.

When you say spare money, $3 can be the spare money of someone that earns $1000.

By definition any money that you do not need to sustain your current living expenses is spare money, but how much money each person can spare a month to invest on bitcoin? That is on them, some people may only invest some beer money in it and without a doubt doing such a thing can be very wasteful as the fees will eat a great deal of whatever they are investing on bitcoin, now investing 5% to 10% is a decent amount but it is still spare money in my mind.

This is where risk management would kick in on which it would really be needing for someone to consider out on how much money that they could afford to lose on their crypto investment.

Risk management is really that highly be needing up to consider on the time you do step your foot into crypto investment.Dont ever have that kind of all-in type of mindset because you would really be finding yourself easily getting be wrecked up by the market considering on how volatility it would be. This is the main importance on spending or investing the money which you can afford to lose is that you wouldnt
really freak out if ever you would see its decreasing in value and since you are really that prepared then you cant really be having those kind of impulsive reactions.

Stick into your plans and be mindful about your each step or decisions you would be making so that you wouldnt really be that ending up on regretting just because you had missed something.

cydrix

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All three advice are still valid in my opinion. Regarding Bitcoin, you have an OP and a few decadent emotions. Please elaborate on why it is so challenging to profit from the free money that we invest in Bitcoin now. You start to reject this rule when most others do. I agree that free money is getting far less common in our time, barring one thing.
In a similar vein, I can't fully support your following suggestions. Although to me, the first and second sound alike.

Silberman

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Quote from: Zoomic on May 22, 2023, 08:58:45 AM

Quote from: Hyphen(-) on May 20, 2023, 09:18:07 AM

Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

1. Invest in Bitcoin with your spare money:
I can say that this advice is not necessary in today's bitcoin world. This advice was only relevant like a decade ago when bitcoin was been seen with alot of skepticism. Some saw bitcoin as gambling, some saw it as a ponze scheme while others saw it as a bubble the will burst.
In today's bitcoin, we know that if you invest with your spare money you may never make any fortune from bitcoin.

If you use your entire money to invest in Bitcoin, then which money are you going to use for your personal upkeep? Does that mean anytime you need money, you should sell the Bitcoin you have stocked in your wallet? NO. That is why the advice to invest your spare money in Bitcoin is always good for new investors, so that they can buy Bitcoin with the aim of holding it for a long time.

You have missed the point. Not investing with your spare money does not mean you should invest all you have. What I mean, anyone still investing in bitcoin today with a spare money is a very big joke. You can budget your and be fine in bitcoin investment.
For instance, if you earn $1000 monthly, after removing your living expenses and emergency fund, you can decide to invest 5 to 10% in bitcoin. This is not a spare money and it is not also a living expense money and neither is it an emergency fund.

When you say spare money, $3 can be the spare money of someone that earns $1000.

By definition any money that you do not need to sustain your current living expenses is spare money, but how much money each person can spare a month to invest on bitcoin? That is on them, some people may only invest some beer money in it and without a doubt doing such a thing can be very wasteful as the fees will eat a great deal of whatever they are investing on bitcoin, now investing 5% to 10% is a decent amount but it is still spare money in my mind.

AnonBitCoiner

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Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

1. Invest in Bitcoin with your spare money:
I can say that this advice is not necessary in today's bitcoin world. This advice was only relevant like a decade ago when bitcoin was been seen with alot of skepticism. Some saw bitcoin as gambling, some saw it as a ponze scheme while others saw it as a bubble the will burst.
In today's bitcoin, we know that if you invest with your spare money you may never make any fortune from bitcoin.

I think this advise is true for today also because spare money means that you don't need this amount for your daily expenses and if one put money that is not a spare amount so it will be sometime risky because of the need in householding activities.

Making fortune is necessary but if a person is hardly fulfil his family expenses then there is no need of investment and other thing is that person will only invest what he can afford so it does not matter that with little amount he make his fortune late or with large amount of money he make his fortune soon.

BVeyron

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Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

2mins 20s read.

I really feel that some bitcoin investment advices are obsolete and shouldn't be given anyone again or atleast they should be rephrased to fit the current status and position of bitcoin in today's society.

I will highlight some of the advices and the reasons they should be modified.

1. Invest in Bitcoin with your spare money:
I can say that this advice is not necessary in today's bitcoin world. This advice was only relevant like a decade ago when bitcoin was been seen with alot of skepticism. Some saw bitcoin as gambling, some saw it as a ponze scheme while others saw it as a bubble the will burst.
In today's bitcoin, we know that if you invest with your spare money you may never make any fortune from bitcoin.

2. Invest what you are able to lose;
I have a question!
Who has ever lost in bitcoin? I do not find this advice pleasant to bitcoin. Although, this is a kind of general advice for assets that are volatile. But with bitcoin having proven that it can resuscitate after crash, the advice should be rephrased as Invest what you will not be needing in the next few years. It will not be advisable to use the money meant for your childrens school fees for bitcoin. Just have an investment budget from your income that will not negative alter your living state. Then, when you invest for 3yrs to 5yrs duration, there's no how bitcoin will fail you.

Besides I have known people that put their retirement money into bitcoin
And
I have also seen people that have all their savings in bitcoin. What do you have to tell them?

3. DYOR (Do your own research):
This advice should be for altcoin investors. If I may ask, what kind of research is one, especially a newbie expected to make in bitcoin. Are they researching the road map of bitcoin or are they researching the developers behind it? The right thing is to know when to buy. Simply buy low and sell high.

These and some more are bothering me, I decided to let it out so that we will begin to appreciate bitcoin and not to continue seeing it as it was 10 years ago.

I think btc is suitable for long-term investments, it is not able to provide much money in a short period of time. So the amount to invest is something everyone should decide on their own. Here, IMHO no research is needed, but the evaluation of income and expenditure rates is a thing better to be performed before buying btc. I think the amount of investment should be something in between "everything you earn" and "only the money you can afford to lose".

Ucy

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Investors need to know How to invest, How much to invest, When to invest, etc.
On how to invest, that's probably why they are advised to DYOR.

In regards to how much to invest, we typically advise people to "invest what they can afford to risk".... *what you can afford to lose* should be reserved for gamblers not Bitcoin investors as it's quite rare to lose all your investment to price fluctuations. The risk is in losing part of your investment or not growing it at all.
Just use the amount of money you wouldn't be too bothered about when things aren't going your way.

Finally, it's important to know when to invest. Invest when you are certain that price will go up & stay above your investment entry price long enough. It's important to know the right time to enter and probably the right time to exit the market, when you need to. You need someone who can predict the market accurately to guide you on this. Such people are quite very few and are most likely Prophets who depend on our CREATOR for such rare knowledge. You can identify them by their consistency and unwillingness to take the credit for their prediction accuracies. They instead give the Credit to the CREATOR of the Universe.

Bazzu

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I think about this , it's up to the person who is going to invest because usually people before investing first learn about the risks of loss and so on.

so in my opinion nothing is obsolete, because we invest, we must be prepared to lose money or lose.

I think in this case it's up to the person who will invest because everyone has a different strategy.

Zoomic

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Quote from: Hyphen(-) on May 20, 2023, 09:18:07 AM

Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

1. Invest in Bitcoin with your spare money:
I can say that this advice is not necessary in today's bitcoin world. This advice was only relevant like a decade ago when bitcoin was been seen with alot of skepticism. Some saw bitcoin as gambling, some saw it as a ponze scheme while others saw it as a bubble the will burst.
In today's bitcoin, we know that if you invest with your spare money you may never make any fortune from bitcoin.

If you use your entire money to invest in Bitcoin, then which money are you going to use for your personal upkeep? Does that mean anytime you need money, you should sell the Bitcoin you have stocked in your wallet? NO. That is why the advice to invest your spare money in Bitcoin is always good for new investors, so that they can buy Bitcoin with the aim of holding it for a long time.

You have missed the point. Not investing with your spare money does not mean you should invest all you have. What I mean, anyone still investing in bitcoin today with a spare money is a very big joke. You can budget your and be fine in bitcoin investment.
For instance, if you earn $1000 monthly, after removing your living expenses and emergency fund, you can decide to invest 5 to 10% in bitcoin. This is not a spare money and it is not also a living expense money and neither is it an emergency fund.

When you say spare money, $3 can be the spare money of someone that earns $1000.

Quote from: demonica on May 20, 2023, 01:07:54 PM

You do have a point and I bet others also understand your point. But I still think that it's still applicable. Maybe not for everyone, but for others, especially newbies. Those three advices you've mentioned are usually being advice to beginners since they are still exploring and starting their Bitcoin journey so it's not a bad thing to follow these advices. But of course, through time and if you learned enough, your ways of investing and thinking may change. Your level of risk may change and you may start investing more on Bitcoin and not just using your extra money. And same goes for the other advices. These advices may not be applicable to you anymore since you've had enough experience and knowledge, but these things can still be useful for others.

You have a point mate. This could be the advice given to newbies to keep them at their toes until they understand the system. But for someone who is well experienced, the advice is faulty.

Ultegra134

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Quote from: Bitcoin_Arena on May 19, 2023, 07:45:14 PM

Quote from: Zoomic on May 19, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

1. Invest in Bitcoin with your spare money:
I can say that this advice is not necessary in today's bitcoin world. This advice was only relevant like a decade ago when bitcoin was been seen with alot of skepticism. Some saw bitcoin as gambling, some saw it as a ponze scheme while others saw it as a bubble the will burst.

Have you forgotten that we do have bear markets that last a while?

Investing with spare money means in case of a bear market, one won't be forced to sell of there bitcoins at a lower market price just because they have to cover other expenses. Same applies to one investing what they can afford to lose. Nothing is obsolete

Certainly, the first point is solid advice: you shouldn't invest, not only in Bitcoin but in general, if you don't have the budget to do so. Investing shouldn't put you under financial strain. If you can't afford it, you're better off not taking a risk you can't afford.

The second point is kind of pointless to be bonest, at least that's how I see it. Any amount of money lost would stink, large or small. A loss is a loss. I can afford to lose $2,000, for instance, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be mad or disappointed. Moreover, even if we're talking about Bitcoin, gains are still not guaranteed.

Topic: obsolete bitcoin investment advices [change needed] (Read 314 times)