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Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments - page 32. (Read 1234271 times)

full member
Activity: 563
Merit: 103
i remember translations have been handled on crowdin a year ago: https://crowdin.com/project/byteball

that was before translations have been handled via discord / davinci / utopian.io.
i can check what has been done around that time, maybe we could discuss a belated compensation for german translation work, since i didn't get paid.

i will also check on discord if any help is needed for the GUI translation.


I remember clearly that a few years ago translations were not paid at all. I would have loved do the Italian translation then, which was missing, but then I didn't since there was no reward for that - while at the same time tons of Gigabytes where thrown at BTC holders. Perhaps you were not in Byteball community back then tarmo888.

Maybe there wasn't translations campaigns during the first year, but there has been rewards since 2018 March, but that mainly DaVinci and Utopian.io translators, so others were not even accepted to join Crowdin project back then, unless they were also Slack community member. Somebody called Robert got paid for Italian translations in 2018 June.

Translations are still handled via Crowdin, the community is just on Discord now.
sr. member
Activity: 1015
Merit: 289
We are still open for suggestions of better distribution methods.

I think translators of the wallet app should be rewarded for their work. They spend time working and allow users to operate wallet in native languages which brings value to the network. Alas they get nothing in return. Instead funds are spent on random people with lottery.

The wallet app is translated 100% in only 10 languages. Some incentive wouldn't hurt.



I second that. Bounties for HQ work would put bytes in the hands of people who really deserve them - which surely would benefit adoption. Indeed it's a nonsense NOT to pay translators while giving out tons of bytes to random lottery winners. I could myself do excellent translations in Italian, should they be needed and should there be a reward for that.

What are you guys talking about? The translators have always been rewarded for their previous translations and there was just week ago a translation campaign announcement on Discord to translate the GUI wallet again because lot of texts have changed since most of the languages were translated last time. Italian is already fully translated and will be released with new version.

We initially accepted only DaVinci and Utopian.io translators/proofreaders because the quality was higher there, but now we have extended it to community members too (people who actually use the app). Translations are funded from community fund (donations from Realname Attestation bot and fees from Username Attestation bot). There isn't that much to translate as there is funds in distribution fund, so your criticism on other distribution methods (draw airdrop is not the only one) doesn't make much sense.

i remember translations have been handled on crowdin a year ago: https://crowdin.com/project/byteball

that was before translations have been handled via discord / davinci / utopian.io.
i can check what has been done around that time, maybe we could discuss a belated compensation for german translation work, since i didn't get paid.

i will also check on discord if any help is needed for the GUI translation.


I remember clearly that a few years ago translations were not paid at all. I would have loved do the Italian translation then, which was missing, but then I didn't since there was no reward for that - while at the same time tons of Gigabytes where thrown at BTC holders. Perhaps you were not in Byteball community back then tarmo888.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1109
Graphic Design & Translation - BTC accepted here!
We are still open for suggestions of better distribution methods.

I think translators of the wallet app should be rewarded for their work. They spend time working and allow users to operate wallet in native languages which brings value to the network. Alas they get nothing in return. Instead funds are spent on random people with lottery.

The wallet app is translated 100% in only 10 languages. Some incentive wouldn't hurt.



I second that. Bounties for HQ work would put bytes in the hands of people who really deserve them - which surely would benefit adoption. Indeed it's a nonsense NOT to pay translators while giving out tons of bytes to random lottery winners. I could myself do excellent translations in Italian, should they be needed and should there be a reward for that.

What are you guys talking about? The translators have always been rewarded for their previous translations and there was just week ago a translation campaign announcement on Discord to translate the GUI wallet again because lot of texts have changed since most of the languages were translated last time. Italian is already fully translated and will be released with new version.

We initially accepted only DaVinci and Utopian.io translators/proofreaders because the quality was higher there, but now we have extended it to community members too (people who actually use the app). Translations are funded from community fund (donations from Realname Attestation bot and fees from Username Attestation bot). There isn't that much to translate as there is funds in distribution fund, so your criticism on other distribution methods (draw airdrop is not the only one) doesn't make much sense.

i remember translations have been handled on crowdin a year ago: https://crowdin.com/project/byteball

that was before translations have been handled via discord / davinci / utopian.io.
i can check what has been done around that time, maybe we could discuss a belated compensation for german translation work, since i didn't get paid.

i will also check on discord if any help is needed for the GUI translation.
full member
Activity: 563
Merit: 103
Quote
What are you guys talking about? The translators have always been rewarded for their previous translations and there was just week ago a translation campaign announcement on Discord to translate the GUI wallet again because lot of texts have changed since most of the languages were translated last time. Italian is already fully translated and will be released with new version.

We initially accepted only DaVinci and Utopian.io translators/proofreaders because the quality was higher there, but now we have extended it to community members too (people who actually use the app). Translations are funded from community fund (donations from Realname Attestation bot and fees from Username Attestation bot). There isn't that much to translate as there is funds in distribution fund, so your criticism on other distribution methods (draw airdrop is not the only one) doesn't make much sense.

What are the rules for these supposed rewards?

You need to signup on Crowdin, where all the translation are.
You translate all the strings, so the wallet is 100% translated.
You translate it so it actually makes sense and is not just a straight machine translation.
Somebody else needs to proofread all the strings.
Some chat bots can be translated too, but right now we translating wallet because it has had most changes, website probably will be translated again when the rebranding is finished.
jr. member
Activity: 81
Merit: 8
Quote
What are you guys talking about? The translators have always been rewarded for their previous translations and there was just week ago a translation campaign announcement on Discord to translate the GUI wallet again because lot of texts have changed since most of the languages were translated last time. Italian is already fully translated and will be released with new version.

We initially accepted only DaVinci and Utopian.io translators/proofreaders because the quality was higher there, but now we have extended it to community members too (people who actually use the app). Translations are funded from community fund (donations from Realname Attestation bot and fees from Username Attestation bot). There isn't that much to translate as there is funds in distribution fund, so your criticism on other distribution methods (draw airdrop is not the only one) doesn't make much sense.

What are the rules for these supposed rewards?
full member
Activity: 563
Merit: 103
We are still open for suggestions of better distribution methods.

I think translators of the wallet app should be rewarded for their work. They spend time working and allow users to operate wallet in native languages which brings value to the network. Alas they get nothing in return. Instead funds are spent on random people with lottery.

The wallet app is translated 100% in only 10 languages. Some incentive wouldn't hurt.



I second that. Bounties for HQ work would put bytes in the hands of people who really deserve them - which surely would benefit adoption. Indeed it's a nonsense NOT to pay translators while giving out tons of bytes to random lottery winners. I could myself do excellent translations in Italian, should they be needed and should there be a reward for that.

What are you guys talking about? The translators have always been rewarded for their previous translations and there was just week ago a translation campaign announcement on Discord to translate the GUI wallet again because lot of texts have changed since most of the languages were translated last time. Italian is already fully translated and will be released with new version.

We initially accepted only DaVinci and Utopian.io translators/proofreaders because the quality was higher there, but now we have extended it to community members too (people who actually use the app). Translations are funded from community fund (donations from Realname Attestation bot and fees from Username Attestation bot). There isn't that much to translate as there is funds in distribution fund, so your criticism on other distribution methods (draw airdrop is not the only one) doesn't make much sense.
sr. member
Activity: 1015
Merit: 289
We are still open for suggestions of better distribution methods.

I think translators of the wallet app should be rewarded for their work. They spend time working and allow users to operate wallet in native languages which brings value to the network. Alas they get nothing in return. Instead funds are spent on random people with lottery.

The wallet app is translated 100% in only 10 languages. Some incentive wouldn't hurt.



I second that. Bounties for HQ work would put bytes in the hands of people who really deserve them - which surely would benefit adoption. Indeed it's a nonsense NOT to pay translators while giving out tons of bytes to random lottery winners. I could myself do excellent translations in Italian, should they be needed and should there be a reward for that.
jr. member
Activity: 81
Merit: 8
We are still open for suggestions of better distribution methods.

I think translators of the wallet app should be rewarded for their work. They spend time working and allow users to operate wallet in native languages which brings value to the network. Alas they get nothing in return. Instead funds are spent on random people with lottery.

The wallet app is translated 100% in only 10 languages. Some incentive wouldn't hurt.

legendary
Activity: 3136
Merit: 1116
Is this thing minable? I have a farm running in China. Which algorithm do you guys use? PM me if you need this to be mined. I am open for suggestions.

No. Coins are distributed at the whim of one guy named Tony.

Nice FUD, but in order that to be true, he would need to have control of which transactions end up in Bitcoin block on Friday noon UTC.

This week it's based on bitcoin txs, next week it's whoever posts a pic of something round on insta, following week it's whatever he feels like. This thing went to shit when the distributor decided that he would do away with the initial distribution social contact, and it's gotten shittier and shittier the further Lord Almighty distributor has veered away from it. You can call it FUD but the only metrics that matter, price and engagement, have objectively fallen off a fucking cliff. Happy Friday  Smiley

Aren't you advocating that this situation needs to be changed at the same time when you are saying it is changing too much? Which one is it then? Should a distribution be left unchanged if it doesn't archive it's goal and should the distribution be written in stone even if it turns out to be hurting the project? Where are all those initial distribution social contract people, was that really a good distribution? If it was, then where are they? They just sit on their balls and that's it, no use of them for the project at all.

Do you understand that Obyte would stick to one distribution if it would find the one that works and wherever it works, the #ophoto campaign reached people, which WCGrid distribution probably didn't reach. More varied people than just hard-core hodlers is better for the project in a long run.

No, I'm saying he fucked it up and you can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again.
full member
Activity: 563
Merit: 103
We are still open for suggestions of better distribution methods. On paper, everybody would create a better cryptocurrency and better distribution, but in reality, people just like to whine. Be different, get creative.
https://medium.com/obyte/distribution-methods-revisited-we-need-you-b0a38800b722

If you could develop the distribution with Autonomous Agents then it will be even better because the distribution could be done even more transparent because all the data would be on public DAG,. As a developer, you would be helping to make Obyte more tested by the time of AA mainnet launch and while coming up with new distribution method, you could win prizes.
https://medium.com/obyte/obyte-autonomous-agents-developer-contest-6a67ae3dacd2

Even if your new distribution method sucks, but you are good at finding show-stopping bugs that crash the whole testnet network, you could still win a prize for helping to discover bugs like that.
https://medium.com/obyte/third-round-of-obyte-autonomous-agents-developer-contest-4a7df3d70b29

If your idea is to burn the whole distribution fund on Bitcoin holders then no need to apply, Obyte tried that already and it didn't work. Good distribution is not the one that burns the distribution fund faster, but the one that actually brings more people to Obyte who will stick around and actually use it.

full member
Activity: 563
Merit: 103
Is this thing minable? I have a farm running in China. Which algorithm do you guys use? PM me if you need this to be mined. I am open for suggestions.

No. Coins are distributed at the whim of one guy named Tony.

Nice FUD, but in order that to be true, he would need to have control of which transactions end up in Bitcoin block on Friday noon UTC.

This week it's based on bitcoin txs, next week it's whoever posts a pic of something round on insta, following week it's whatever he feels like. This thing went to shit when the distributor decided that he would do away with the initial distribution social contact, and it's gotten shittier and shittier the further Lord Almighty distributor has veered away from it. You can call it FUD but the only metrics that matter, price and engagement, have objectively fallen off a fucking cliff. Happy Friday  Smiley

Aren't you advocating that this situation needs to be changed at the same time when you are saying it is changing too much? Which one is it then? Should a distribution be left unchanged if it doesn't archive it's goal and should the distribution be written in stone even if it turns out to be hurting the project? Where are all those initial distribution social contract people, was that really a good distribution? If it was, then where are they? They just sit on their balls and that's it, no use of them for the project at all.

Do you understand that Obyte would stick to one distribution if it would find the one that works and wherever it works, the #ophoto campaign reached people, which WCGrid distribution probably didn't reach. More varied people than just hard-core hodlers is better for the project in a long run.
legendary
Activity: 3136
Merit: 1116
Is this thing minable? I have a farm running in China. Which algorithm do you guys use? PM me if you need this to be mined. I am open for suggestions.

No. Coins are distributed at the whim of one guy named Tony.

Nice FUD, but in order that to be true, he would need to have control of which transactions end up in Bitcoin block on Friday noon UTC.

This week it's based on bitcoin txs, next week it's whoever posts a pic of something round on insta, following week it's whatever he feels like. This thing went to shit when the distributor decided that he would do away with the initial distribution social contact, and it's gotten shittier and shittier the further Lord Almighty distributor has veered away from it. You can call it FUD but the only metrics that matter, price and engagement, have objectively fallen off a fucking cliff. Happy Friday  Smiley
full member
Activity: 563
Merit: 103
Is this thing minable? I have a farm running in China. Which algorithm do you guys use? PM me if you need this to be mined. I am open for suggestions.

No. Coins are distributed at the whim of one guy named Tony.

Nice FUD, but in order that to be true, he would need to have control of which transactions end up in Bitcoin block on Friday noon UTC.
jr. member
Activity: 111
Merit: 2
No. Coins are distributed at the whim of one guy named long term thinking.

Now it is better said.
legendary
Activity: 3136
Merit: 1116
Is this thing minable? I have a farm running in China. Which algorithm do you guys use? PM me if you need this to be mined. I am open for suggestions.

No. Coins are distributed at the whim of one guy named Tony.
jr. member
Activity: 42
Merit: 1
Is this thing minable? I have a farm running in China. Which algorithm do you guys use? PM me if you need this to be mined. I am open for suggestions.
copper member
Activity: 154
Merit: 18
Is there anyone here from the Byte ball Team or company to answer a quick question?
legendary
Activity: 1450
Merit: 1013
Cryptanalyst castrated by his government, 1952
The "skin in the game" issue is an instance of what the ancient Greeks called a "sorites" or heap paradox. They show up in all sorts of places. Corny example - you can't make a person rich by giving the person a penny, but if you do it again and again, eventually the person becomes rich. When, exactly, do they become rich? There is no clear answer, hence paradox. Skin in the game is still a useful concept, if not a precise measure of something. Side note - the penny story makes a nice proof by example that this old chestnut is false: "doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results is the definition of insanity." Life is sooooo complicated.    Wink

Anyway. Obyte is one of my faves as a candidate to replace fiat, but the magic hasn't happened yet. Ya never know when the moment might come though.

full member
Activity: 630
Merit: 103
You are both right about the skin in the game. Yes any value is the skin in the game. And not always equal value is of equal importance. Obviously, the value earned by one’s own hard work is more important than the value obtained without much effort (lottery, inheritance, high return passive investment)
sr. member
Activity: 1015
Merit: 289
Here we totally disagree. If you inherit a fortune from your parents, it's your parents skin in the game the one you end up holding. If you waste your inherited fortune you waste their life of savings, not yours. It did cost you nothing to get that fortune. This is why most people who are winning a lottery end up losing everything. It does cost them nothing to get the fortune - to buy a lottery ticket is not really a cost, nor a merit - and the "skin-in-the-game" value of that fortune is zero. When the skin-in-the-game value of something you are holding is zero your pain in losing it is infinitely lower than the pain of losing something where's a lot of YOUR skin-in-the-game. If you make a mistake which leads you to lose all the savings of all your life you are much more inclined to commit suicide than if you make a mistake which leads you to lose the saving of someone's elses life, which happened to be in your possession just by the way of luck because you have won it or inherited it.
In my Ivory Tower post I'm mentioning also modern politicians ruling without skin in the game. Of course if they make mistakes they have something to lose - their power, but they don't really have to pay the whole price of their mistakes, like it would happen in a distant past. The same applies to top bankers. It's not THEIR skin-in-the-game at stake. All those aspects have been widely and well described by Nassim Nicholas Taleb in his book "Skin in The Game". Understanding the meaning of skin-in-the-game is not limited to the concept of "having something to lose", but it deals with the true subjective value of what you have to lose in a game.

So, when does the easily acquired wealth convert into a "skin in the game"? Do you have skin in the game if you buy a ASIC miners with that money or is it still "skin in the game" of the parents?
Does it convert into "skin in the game" after you have hodled it for 8 years? I mean, that's how we have Bitcoin millionaires today, some have been rewarded for not selling.
Do you have skin in a game when you have done physical or mental work in order to get those coins? What if you got paid in alts that were created from air and then converted to Bitcoin?
Or do you only have skin in the game if you invest into cryptocurrencies or its hardware with the work you got paid in fiat currencies?

Because it is a subjective quantity you cannot define it with an equation, and there are obviously gradations in how much skin-in-the-game one can have in any situation. Impossible to reduce this to a formula like the Metcalfe's law. How do you measure the pain of risking or losing your assets? How do you measure someone attachment to what they have? Totally subjective. The fact that a principle exists and it has an influence in a system doesn't imply that we have the instruments to measure its strenght and its effects. Nevertheless, we shouldn't ignore it's existence, and we whould try to understand as much as possible of its mechanisms and make our plans accordingly.
Actually i didn't read Taleb's book yet, these are just my own thoughts, perhaps after I will have read Taleb I will have better answers.  Grin
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