Occulta Scamming? - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

gamer4156

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Quote from: ataranlen on April 06, 2012, 06:34:06 PM

Quote from: gamer4156 on April 06, 2012, 05:57:32 PM

Occulta earns $1000 through amazon affiliates(You can consider this a job) He could take this money and put it into his bank account. This would result in + $1000.

Instead he decides to be given his $1000 in amazon affiliate credit as a gift card. He then sells this gift card for $800.
His bank now would have +800

$1000-$800= $200 more that he could have had, if he had just taken the direct deposit.

Newdude earns $1000 through buying and reselling Ipads. He could take this money and put it into his bank account. This would result in + $1000.

Instead he decides to take his $1000 and buy gift cards. He then sells these gift cards for $800.
His bank now would have +800

$1000-$800= $200 more that he could have had, if he had just left that money in the bank.

There are several problems with your argument here.
1. Occulta is selling them for 10% off, not 20%.
2. Bank transfers take time. Mailed checks take even more time. And then if he wants BTC, he has to wait even longer for a transfer from his bank account to whatever exchange he wants to use. And then Fees at the exchange!
3. The $1000 from Occulta is VERY different from the $1000 from Newdude. Here's why:
To get that $1000, occulta refers people to amazon, and earns 15% of what they buy. This can be as simple as links on his websites, to more complicated stuff such as setting up his own amazon.com sub-site. Occulta nets $1000 in amazon Credit.
Newdude, if he is selling iPads, Buys them for $500-$800 each, and sells them for what, $50 profit each? He then takes that money and buys Amazon gift cards. (why he chooses gift cards? I don't know, Money laundry perhaps?) Newdude nets ~$50 for each iPad he sells.

1) Occulta used to sell for 20% off and still does if you buy enough.

2) Lets say he has sold $30,000 worth of cards(its probably much higher) Lets take an average of 12%(just a guess, since he now sells for 10 and used to sell for 20) thats a $3,600 that he is getting taxed on but never made. The time is a good argument, and it comes down to would you make more money getting BTC now or waiting a week and having $3600 more to spend on coins. If he is some market wiz and makes a killing trading and having coins now makes him more money. Then I cant argue against that. $1000 earned is $1000 earned, there is no way to argue that. Just because they are earned differently doesn't make it less or more valuable.

3)According to newdude, he buys ipads for $100 with some pawnshop deal(this is what he says I dont know if this is a fact) And resells them for $250-$400.

ataranlen

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The One and Only

Quote from: gamer4156 on April 06, 2012, 05:57:32 PM

Occulta earns $1000 through amazon affiliates(You can consider this a job) He could take this money and put it into his bank account. This would result in + $1000.

Instead he decides to be given his $1000 in amazon affiliate credit as a gift card. He then sells this gift card for $800.
His bank now would have +800

$1000-$800= $200 more that he could have had, if he had just taken the direct deposit.

Newdude earns $1000 through buying and reselling Ipads. He could take this money and put it into his bank account. This would result in + $1000.

Instead he decides to take his $1000 and buy gift cards. He then sells these gift cards for $800.
His bank now would have +800

$1000-$800= $200 more that he could have had, if he had just left that money in the bank.

There are several problems with your argument here.
1. Occulta is selling them for 10% off, not 20%.
2. Bank transfers take time. Mailed checks take even more time. And then if he wants BTC, he has to wait even longer for a transfer from his bank account to whatever exchange he wants to use. And then Fees at the exchange!
3. The $1000 from Occulta is VERY different from the $1000 from Newdude. Here's why:
To get that $1000, occulta refers people to amazon, and earns 15% of what they buy. This can be as simple as links on his websites, to more complicated stuff such as setting up his own amazon.com sub-site. Occulta nets $1000 in amazon Credit.
Newdude, if he is selling iPads, Buys them for $500-$800 each, and sells them for what, $50 profit each? He then takes that money and buys Amazon gift cards. (why he chooses gift cards? I don't know, Money laundry perhaps?) Newdude nets ~$50 for each iPad he sells.

gamer4156

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Its 2012, It takes a week for a letter to get to pretty much any part of the world. How fast can one turn BTC into USD? 2-3 days? With the 10s of thousands that he has sold from 20%-10% off would you wait 2-3 more days for thousands of dollars more? Also is occulta located in the USA?

jamesg

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AKA: gigavps

Quote from: gamer4156 on April 06, 2012, 06:20:50 PM

International affiliates can be paid with a check or gift cards. Direct deposit is not available for non us banks.

Hmmmm. Probably a better reason to get paid in gift cards and sell them on here. Huh.

gamer4156

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Quote from: jamesg on April 06, 2012, 06:18:26 PM

Quote from: gamer4156 on April 06, 2012, 06:12:14 PM

Also for others that didnt know you can accept your amazon affiliates payments in either Amazon Gift cards, or as USD with a direct bank transfer.

What about out of country (USA) affiliates? Do you know how they can be paid?

International affiliates can be paid with a check or gift cards. Direct deposit is not available for non us banks.

jamesg

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Quote from: gamer4156 on April 06, 2012, 06:12:14 PM

Also for others that didnt know you can accept your amazon affiliates payments in either Amazon Gift cards, or as USD with a direct bank transfer.

What about out of country (USA) affiliates? Do you know how they can be paid?

gamer4156

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Also for others that didnt know you can accept your amazon affiliates payments in either Amazon Gift cards, or as USD with a direct bank transfer.

gamer4156

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I feel that my argument is logically thought out and can lead any rational person to a certain conclusion. Now I am not trying to persuade people to use or not use him, once again I could give a shit where he gets his cards. I am just upset that people absolutely trusted Occult's word and forced a competitor out.NO evidence, not even an argument was presented. All that was said is that how can anyone do 20% off? SCAMMER. That was his entire argument.
Who here would not have loved 20% off amazon all the time?

JusticeForYou

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Quote

This is essentially my entire argument. No one cares where the cards came from. Occulta didnt want the competition so he forced a competitor out of the market by lying. Bitcoin is suppose to be the essence of a free market. This was anything but. Essentially you had a monopoly that didn't like the competition so he used his reputation to smear the new seller and force him out.

Yea, 'Free Market'. Did you expect everyone to 'play nice'. I don't know about the other guy so can't speculate. However, YOU have a choice in this free market. If you honestly believe that, then go use the 'other guy'. Give him your business. And then in the end, maybe everyone WILL play nice.

But I do understand what you are saying, but you are aware of it. So your intent, is to put 'Your' belief into others. Making you no worse or better than occulta. The 'Exception' here is if you have proof over speculation.

gamer4156

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Quote from: JusticeForYou on April 06, 2012, 05:53:50 PM

Quote from: gamer4156 on April 06, 2012, 05:48:24 PM

And I find it suspicious that you would take 1000$ earned in USD (that could be directly deposited into your bank account +$1000) and turn this into +800$.

Try and find a whole in that argument.

Found it.

The $1000 doesn't come from him. It comes from Amazon and rather than buy amazon products, he wants to buy a Slushy at the 7/11.

I didnt catch the black hole refrence but if your not joking and dont understand let me simplify.

Occulta earns $1000 through amazon affiliates(You can consider this a job) He could take this money and put it into his bank account. This would result in + $1000.

Instead he decides to be given his $1000 in amazon affiliate credit as a gift card. He then sells this gift card for $800.
His bank now would have +800

$1000-$800= $200 more that he could have had, if he had just taken the direct deposit.

Newdude earns $1000 through buying and reselling Ipads. He could take this money and put it into his bank account. This would result in + $1000.

Instead he decides to take his $1000 and buy gift cards. He then sells these gift cards for $800.
His bank now would have +800

$1000-$800= $200 more that he could have had, if he had just left that money in the bank.

occulta

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Quote from: gamer4156 on April 06, 2012, 05:46:34 PM

They are 100% the same here is why:

You earn $1000 from your supposed amazon affiliates account. You then take this 1000$ in USD and convert it into Amazon gift cards. You sell it at a 20% discount you get $800/$1000.

Newdude earns $1000 from selling Ipads.He then converts it into $1000 in amazon gift cards. He sells it at a 20% discount he gets 800/1000.

You are both taking 1000$ earned and turning it into 800$.

That is not at all how it works, you clearly cannot read, as i have told you he bought the GCs with a credit card, not by selling goods.

This is now out for jury as i cannot repeat such simple facts all night long

gamer4156

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Quote from: JusticeForYou on April 06, 2012, 05:49:54 PM

Quote from: gamer4156 on April 06, 2012, 04:22:10 PM

I am not saying anyone will have problems with his cards.I purchased a $500 one a month or so back and have had zero issues. Here is my problem:

   A new seller enters the market and offers cards at 20% off face value(which is exactly where Occulta started). A current seller who just happens to sell the same product at a lesser discount immediately claims the new person is scamming. What does he provide as evidence? Nothing, his entire argument rests on the premise that selling at such a discount is irrational. No one, not even the mighty occulta, knows the financial and social factors at play with this new seller. What appears to most as irrational could in fact be 100% rational and legitimate.

   My main question to Occulta is why is his 20% so irrational when you started at this discount and now sell at 10%? There is 0 proof that newdude is scamming. There have been ZERO issues with newdudes cards, in fact there have been ZERO issues with Occultas cards. Why is there some lynch mob after newdude? It appears Occulta is just anti free market and hates the competition so he is throwing out accusations that are unfounded and frankly just lies.

   If you are going to jump on the "carding" train, lets see who is really lying about how they get their amazon gift cards.

1) Amazon pays in lump sums once a month. Occulta conservatively sells 30-40 cards a month. So each card MUST be from a separate website.

2) In order to become an amazon affiliate and receive money from them you must provide your TAX ID #. So every dollar that Occulta is getting is being reported from amazon as paid to him. This means that it is being taxed the normal federal and state taxes. Then he comes on here and sells for an additional 10% off. He is essentially raising his tax rate on his alleged affiliate income by 10%, you want to talk about irrational behavior? If he wanted bitcoins he could take the direct deposit(which is offered on ALL amazon affiliate payments) and go through dwolla and mtgox which would save him more than 9%.

   To me the person who is actually "carding" is rather obvious.

Quote

There have been ZERO issues with newdudes cards, in fact there have been ZERO issues with Occultas cards. Why is there some lynch mob after newdude?

Kids from different play grounds often don't get along. OR Obviously they don't like competition.

As far as the 'legitimacy' questions, Why not look into how McDonald's gets to sell at a discount? Cause you don't care but accept the discount. If there is a 'plausible' legitimate way for it to be done, it isn't the buyers responsibility to verify the validity of how or why. That is left up to other people who's job it is.

Now, if he were selling for 50% to 80% off, then you might have a point. But even then, it could be getting rid of inventory before going out of business. Again, it's not the buyers job to determine motives.

But if 'What Ifs' are what you are looking for, then the list is a mile long. What if: it is a program like the ATF selling guns (LOL), and he/they will be horribly embarrassed when it turns out to back fire on them.

What If: ∞

So in the end,

It comes down to, is it a good and reasonable deal on the face of it? If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't.

This is essentially my entire argument. No one cares where the cards came from. Occulta didnt want the competition so he forced a competitor out of the market by lying. Bitcoin is suppose to be the essence of a free market. This was anything but. Essentially you had a monopoly that didn't like the competition so he used his reputation to smear the new seller and force him out.

JusticeForYou

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Quote from: gamer4156 on April 06, 2012, 05:48:24 PM

And I find it suspicious that you would take 1000$ earned in USD (that could be directly deposited into your bank account +$1000) and turn this into +800$.

Try and find a whole in that argument.

Found it.

The $1000 doesn't come from him. It comes from Amazon and rather than buy amazon products, he wants to buy a Slushy at the 7/11.

JusticeForYou

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Quote from: gamer4156 on April 06, 2012, 04:22:10 PM

I am not saying anyone will have problems with his cards.I purchased a $500 one a month or so back and have had zero issues. Here is my problem:

A new seller enters the market and offers cards at 20% off face value(which is exactly where Occulta started). A current seller who just happens to sell the same product at a lesser discount immediately claims the new person is scamming. What does he provide as evidence? Nothing, his entire argument rests on the premise that selling at such a discount is irrational. No one, not even the mighty occulta, knows the financial and social factors at play with this new seller. What appears to most as irrational could in fact be 100% rational and legitimate.

My main question to Occulta is why is his 20% so irrational when you started at this discount and now sell at 10%? There is 0 proof that newdude is scamming. There have been ZERO issues with newdudes cards, in fact there have been ZERO issues with Occultas cards. Why is there some lynch mob after newdude? It appears Occulta is just anti free market and hates the competition so he is throwing out accusations that are unfounded and frankly just lies.

If you are going to jump on the "carding" train, lets see who is really lying about how they get their amazon gift cards.

1) Amazon pays in lump sums once a month. Occulta conservatively sells 30-40 cards a month. So each card MUST be from a separate website.

2) In order to become an amazon affiliate and receive money from them you must provide your TAX ID #. So every dollar that Occulta is getting is being reported from amazon as paid to him. This means that it is being taxed the normal federal and state taxes. Then he comes on here and sells for an additional 10% off. He is essentially raising his tax rate on his alleged affiliate income by 10%, you want to talk about irrational behavior? If he wanted bitcoins he could take the direct deposit(which is offered on ALL amazon affiliate payments) and go through dwolla and mtgox which would save him more than 9%.

To me the person who is actually "carding" is rather obvious.

Quote

There have been ZERO issues with newdudes cards, in fact there have been ZERO issues with Occultas cards. Why is there some lynch mob after newdude?

Kids from different play grounds often don't get along. OR Obviously they don't like competition.

As far as the 'legitimacy' questions, Why not look into how McDonald's gets to sell at a discount? Cause you don't care but accept the discount. If there is a 'plausible' legitimate way for it to be done, it isn't the buyers responsibility to verify the validity of how or why. That is left up to other people who's job it is.

Now, if he were selling for 50% to 80% off, then you might have a point. But even then, it could be getting rid of inventory before going out of business. Again, it's not the buyers job to determine motives.

But if 'What Ifs' are what you are looking for, then the list is a mile long. What if: it is a program like the ATF selling guns (LOL), and he/they will be horribly embarrassed when it turns out to back fire on them.

What If: ∞

So in the end,

It comes down to, is it a good and reasonable deal on the face of it? If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't.

gamer4156

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Activity: 1008

Merit: 250

And I find it suspicious that you would take 1000$ earned in USD (that could be directly deposited into your bank account +$1000) and turn this into +800$.

Try and find a whole in that argument.

gamer4156

sr. member

Activity: 1008

Merit: 250

They are 100% the same here is why:

You earn $1000 from your supposed amazon affiliates account. You then take this 1000$ in USD and convert it into Amazon gift cards. You sell it at a 20% discount you get $800/$1000.

Newdude earns $1000 from selling Ipads.He then converts it into $1000 in amazon gift cards. He sells it at a 20% discount he gets 800/1000.

You are both taking 1000$ earned and turning it into 800$.

occulta

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Quote from: rjk on April 06, 2012, 05:20:23 PM

I'd be interested in whether you actually have an honest connection inside Amazon, because it is more likely that the chat support agent is blowing smoke up your ass. Privacy laws and all that shit.

Theymos said the same thing, but i have spoke with chat reps and the first time they said there was not a problem with the codes, but it was suspicious that someone would buy $1000 of $100 GCs, yes they did tell me this... as they was all from the same account. The next time i spoke with them (when newdude reposted the codes) well, i posted that transcript. After theymos wanted direct from amazon to remove this user i contacted them again, and will forward his email onto them

rjk

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1ngldh

I'd be interested in whether you actually have an honest connection inside Amazon, because it is more likely that the chat support agent is blowing smoke up your ass. Privacy laws and all that shit.

occulta

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Quote from: gamer4156 on April 06, 2012, 05:12:08 PM

First of all I called it, that someone would assume I am him since I stood up for him.

But exactly it is NOT my business to know where you get your cards. No one asked you when you first started. But why did a new seller have to prove where his cards came from? If he was in fact scamming he would have been weeded out like all the rest, thats what the market does. He was not given a chance, because you automatically called him a scammer with no proof and people took your word for it. It is not a couple websites you own but 40+. If you are able to do this all the power to you, but using your argument one comes to the same conclusion about you as newdude.

Seriously man, i have stated this probably 4-5times now on all these threads:

I make +80% profit, from amazon associates, selling here for 20% discount.

He makes -20% loss, by buying GCs with a credit card (talked to amazon in great detail about this now), and selling here for 20% discount

If you can still compare the both of us after reading that, then you are clearly cant read? simple math, there is no comparison. How i earn, what websites i run is a totally different subject.

gamer4156

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Quote from: occulta on April 06, 2012, 04:52:10 PM

Someone PM'ed me linking me to this thread, i will probably read it in more detail tomorrow but for now i cant be bothered to give a real lengthy reply to these claims.

All i want to say is this user must be:

gamer4156
Newdude
BTC guy

purely based on the latest replies in this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74747.0;all

seems he is angry and trying to tarnish me here

---------

gamer4156 if you are not newdude, you have gone off on a crazy tangent here. He is selling cards at -20% profit, originally here i sold (and still do sell with large buys) at +80% profit. I do own many high traffic websites, but this really isnt any of your business, or anything to do with people being scammed on this forum

First of all I called it, that someone would assume I am him since I stood up for him.

But exactly it is NOT my business to know where you get your cards. No one asked you when you first started. But why did a new seller have to prove where his cards came from? If he was in fact scamming he would have been weeded out like all the rest, thats what the market does. He was not given a chance, because you automatically called him a scammer with no proof and people took your word for it. It is not a couple websites you own but 40+. If you are able to do this all the power to you, but using your argument one comes to the same conclusion about you as newdude.

Topic: Occulta Scamming? - page 2. (Read 3486 times)