Topic: occupy taksim (Read 3969 times)

This saturday's account (29/06/13) from a close friend who was there:

"I was near tunel around 18:00. I think there was a gathering there. But there wasn't too many people. There was a toma (crowd control vehicle, with a water cannon on top of it) and some police. I walked towards taksim, as I was going to meet my friend there. There was a demonstration about the events in Lice near Galatasaray highschool. (note: The soldiers fired on demonstrators near the town of Lice and killed one kurdish boy who was demonstrating against the construction of a military headquarters in their town). I had hard time going through. I arrived at the square, there were no demonstrators, and around the statue it was full of police (this is around 18:20). I called my friend and learned that he wasn't coming. I went back towards Galatasaray high school. I joined the demonstrators protesting the events in Lice, and we entered the square together around 19:00. We did a sit-down protest on the square. The new slogans were "everywhere is Lice, everwhere is resistance" (note: derived from everywhere is taksim, everywhere is resistance, probably the most popular slogan of the movement), "Kurdistan will be the tomb of fascism", "biji biratiya gelan" (note: kurdish slogan which I don't understand). Around 20:30 the taksim solidarity (taksim dayanisma), declared the event over. I thought there would be no more action and left to go home. Apparently they started the attack about half an hour later"

Finally what I could learn from the few independent media organizations in Turkey, that they have attacked people to clear the square and arrested some 10-15 people. They've used tear gas as usual but apparently it was less intense than the usual. One claim is that they used plastic bullets and paint guns. I am not sure if the paint gun was really just paint gun or rather pepper balls (this is what they usually use, which also paints your clothes, and may make the journalists think that it is just paint gun), since I don't know anyone personnally who was subjected to the attacks this time.

long but interesting piece both showing the american perspective (i.e. total indifference), and a reasonably objective account of what happened in taksim:

http://www.city-journal.org/2013/eon0628cb.html

Can't protesters just occupy something in a way, that police cannot nitpick? like not blocking traffic, or dividing in large group on a sidewalks?

I know that it sounds silly...

I was there:

http://rt.com/news/turkish-twitter-protest-organizers-arrest-406/

this was basically a mourning event for the death of Ethem Sarisuluk. People came with flowers. The police started announcing that we have to clear the square for traffic. We didn't (but we didn't do anything either). They came with their shields to push us out. At this point you can see what the protestors are throwing at the police. Yes, flowers.

Yes eventually, they started using gas, and a very small group started throwing stones at them (with a larger group trying to convince them to stop throwing stones, I was one, so I know from personal experience). At the end of the night, the police was shooting plastic bullets, pepper balls, pepper gas canisters aimed at people. They went  completely mad.

Another example of how people supporting "occupy gezi" are not hoodlums:

http://rt.com/news/turkish-police-lawyers-courthouse-534/

Here is an example from the spirit of gezi:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/15/arts/music/music-in-istanbul-is-intermission-for-a-protest.html?_r=0

Right, but this wasn't a crowd of violent hoodlums. These are common folks who no longer fear the police violence. These are middle class people who are sick of the authoritarian erdogan government imposing every aspect of their lives.

As an example, I gave a tour of gezi park, when it was liberated (the park was under the control of the protesters between 1-15 june), to my 60+ years old american physics professor. His only complaint was that it was too crowded and hot.

Remember, the thing started with greenpeace activists reading books at the park. The police came and gassed those people and burned their tents. Afterwards everyone came to the park, hundres of thousands. Even famous turkish film stars, people from all proffessions. These were no hoodlums. The police gassed them nonetheless. They actually left the square so that people would think that they left and gather to the square and gassed them at once to deliver the gas most effectively (rather than using it to disperse the crowd).

Another example, on 22 june, when the police entered istiklal street a group of 50 or so police officers were trapped between tens of thousands of demonstrators chanting things like "killers" (they shot a guy called ethem sarisuluk in the head in ankara). I was right behind the police (there were demonstrators on both sides of the police). When the police were afraid and wanted to pull back to taksim square, the demonstrators organized them to pass unharmed. We tried to hold those of us who looked too angry. Once they passed, they started gassing us nonetheless.

I agree that the police are mostly just simple men. In fact they are much better than the turkish police I know from my youth (famous for making people disappear). It is what they are ordered to do, and the fact that they follow those unlawful orders that makes them enemy of the people.

I have seen them (with my own eyes) launching tear gas grenade inside a cafe, where there were only unprotected civilians who weren't even chanting slogans. I attempted to save those people but I couldn't (tear gas in a closed space is horrible). In the end they were saved by one of the protestors who had an army issued mask.

Please read other sources. Just avoid Turkish government propaganda, even NYT or BBC are reasonable in terms of reporting.

Don't judge this with your old prejudices, the gezi park incident is pretty unique. I think it was facilitated by a sort of collective consciousness that appeared due to the technological connections now possible between people and an exceptionally authoritarian state.

I have never seen anything like this in my lifetime, in none of the three countries that I have lived. I have never heard of anything like this either.

I've never heard about passersby's getting injured by an attack by the protesters. Any sources you can cite? There have been many injuries caused by the police to people who were minding their own business, even in their own workplaces.


How did you get that impression? That's the complete opposite of what is really going on. The evidence is out there. I suggest you stop reading your favorite commentaries and begin to collect raw information and interpret for yourself.

I call bullshit. Huge crowd of violent hoodlums is bound to cause damage. Shop window, passerby's head, car - equally good targets for a brick. Those policemen are simple men, just like you, trying to keep country in order, just to get their heads bashed in. Even if some 5% of protesters act on a decent cause, the rest of them are what they are: adrenaline junkies, seeking to channel their frustration and violent tendencies.

There was a protest in Brazil recently, now that was quite peaceful.

I was in Istanbul from 6 June until today. I'll be leaving tomorrow.

I have mixed feelings. I was pretty much involved in anything that happenned after the initial uprising (31 May). I got gassed, was hit by pepper ball bullets, kicked and batoned by the police. All I have as a result is a cough and a diarrhea that seems to have died off, as of today.

Here are the videos that I shot:

https://vimeo.com/user18982678/videos

Right now the park is under government control, and the taksim square is protected as if it was a war zone, frontier outpost. There are police barricades from Harbiye and Gumussuyu. The only pedestrian entrance to the square is via Istiklal and Siraselviler.

While the government continue to act as if they are in control. They have already retreated from their positions, quite a bit. For example they have announced that they will organize a referandum for the fate of the park. They also announced that they will respect the court order (the court has issued an order to stop the development of the park). They are actually planting more trees in the park, to look positive.

They have also defacto accepted the right to spontaneous demonstrations. This last weekend there were hundreds of thousands of people demonstrating in different parts of Istanbul to protest the release of the police officer who killed Ethem Sarisuluk (a protester, who was killed in Ankara by a bullet in the head). In the past, the government would attack such demonstrations and try to disperse the people. Today, they content with just holding the taksim square.

I was there during the last police attack this saturday. The police announced that we should empty the square. We didn't, and they attacked in force. Unfortunately my recording for the initial phase of the attack was lost when I dropped my camera while recording.

In any case, I think the events of June, was an important, unforgettable experience for the Turkish people. They have realized that they can g oout into the street and make a mess if the government pisses them off. Turks didn't have this idea before.

Another interesting thing is that the park and the surrounding region, was under the control of the protestors from 1st of june to 15 of june:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouVxXkwExHw

during this time there was no government authority. No police force, no army, nothing in around Taksim. Yet the crime rate was virtually zero. There was no looting, virtually no vandalism (accept police vehicles and a pastry shop owned by the municipal of Istanbul), no harrassement (even though there were young girls sleeping in the park alone), and no in fighting (even though there were ideologically opposing groups staying in the park).

Now people are organizing forums in parks accross the country to discuss how to proceed:

http://www.bianet.org/english/youth/147740-every-park-become-gezi-park-in-turkey

Personally I prefer direct resistance to the police. But I also hope that this turns into something bigger than itself and define the political landscape in Turkey in the future.

this is the new phenomenon:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22949632

This guy was arrested at the end of the day together with a number of people standing with him. Today there are many people standing in Taksim.

this is what I shot friday night. I was pretty much at the front line,
when the thing started:

https://vimeo.com/user18982678/videos

the videos are not in correct order. the first one is the "dancing people" the second one is the "escape from gezi", and the last one is the "escape from gezi 2"

I was there last night. The cops attacked the park around 20:45. I was trying to take photos of the police and suddenly saw the gas canisters coming at us. I had my mask and a bicycle helmet I put on in panic, and started moving out of the park, helping people around me without masks. It was pretty crazy. They used tear gas, pepper gas, and something which made me want to vomit very strongly even behind my half-face mask.

But in a few hours, there was a huge crowd. People were saying that, this was much larger than  31 May. We ran away from the park but when the police stops people stop running and gather around and go back. The police will be pretty tired. I went home around 3:00 am last night. There is talk about reinforcements from other cities.

Now the police is arresting people (even some people from their homes). Apparently military police (genderme) was used in mecidiyekoy to stop people from crossing the bridge. I think tonight will be pretty crazy also.

The decision from the Taksim Collective (Taksim Dayanisma) has been to continue the occupation. I don't think they could decide otherwise, since even if only the greenpeace people said that they would stay, nobody would leave. They have also decided to organize under a more coherent organization scheme, which includes very disparate groups such as ODP,BDP, TKP, IP, CHP, etc.

There are people saying that this may turn into a bloodbath. I doubt that, but it is not completely impossible with the government supporters planned meeting in Kazlicesme on Sunday. I would expect a police attack on Tuesday or Wednesday.

So far the tactics have been to leave when the police comes and to come back when they leave. I hope with this new sense of organization, they don't try to defend the park. I think that would be stupid.

If the police decides to occupy taksim themselves, I think the protesters should simply move the headquarters, and wait. If they decide to demolish the park with a police occupation. That can be done (logistically) but it would be a horrible blow to the image of Tayyip, who has already suffered quite a bit. People who had postive opinions of him a few years back are now drawing parallels between him and Kenan Evren (the turkish general responsible for the coup d'etat of 1980).

FWIW, rocks appeared long after the sweeping attack by the police. By the time people started throwing rocks, many protesters had already been injured. Molotov cocktails appeared very briefly after many such attacks by the police for a week, and the police's reaction to these appeared less severe than their initial offense (back when they were attacking sleeping tent dwellers).


Turkey is still pretty much secular, so you'd need a precautionary reaction against a potential threat to secularism. These already happened many times in Turkey, and resulted in this situation.

Precautionary rhetoric in general, regardless of the subject, is prone to turning into religion itself.


I think it should continue until things start moving about legislative, even constitutional change. Don't think it will happen though, since it requires a political consensus. If the Turkish left could do that, AKP wouldn't be in power in the first place.

This was never about the trees, so I hope the protesters don't try to build on that topic this late in the game. It has been a victory so far, but now they need to let the government build what it wants to build.

Hi,

I couldn't post an update because I was in the park for a few days, and I only had emergency internet access.

The atmosphere (when I was there) was rather calm. I met artists, students, teachers and all kinds of other people.

The cops attacked only on tuesday (while I wasn't there), I tried to reach the park, but apparently they managed to push most of the people out, and I didn't have the proper gear against tear gas, so I ended up going back to Karakoy.

Now, apparently the PM has stepped a bit back. He says certain things which can be interpreted positively. The people in the park were discussing how to interpret those. He is also organizing a huge meeting of his own with his supporters, to show his power.

I don't know what will be decided. Apparently the leftist groups are willing to stop the occupation while the greenpeace groups want to continue. To me, it sould continue until the police that has killed people be properly punished.

Though I agree that violent protest is not the answer, many of the protesters were not being violent.  It was the police who initiated violence against the citizens they're supposed to protect.  If this were true, the police would've stand down and left the protesters alone: what, then, separates a mercenary from official government force?  Who do the police work for?

If it isn't a protest against islam then it needs to become that. It would really be the best thing for the region. The best thing for Turkey would be overthrow of the current government and a return to something secular... combined with the EU pulling prospective status over it.

Hey, I'm all against any governments  BUT:

What do you expect of police if it's provoked with rocks and Molotov cocktails?
I view these violent protesters as a worse thing.

They demolish their own country.
It's not the case with countries like Egypt and Turkey, but they call for intervention.
In the short run change of government is for the worse.
Instead of your dictator you will get a whole room of greedy politicians who cannot agree on what they want, will spend your money to advertise themselves, will suck more money than your dictator in the end.
 In the very end you will be run by jewish banks and other puppeteers.

If we look at Syria insurgency - it's a bunch of foreign mercenaries, or plunderers enjoying overseas support, while on a rape run. They are not your freedom fighters.