Topic: occupy taksim - page 2. (Read 3969 times)

the library is apparently flooded due to water cannon attacks:

Good for you gurcani.

I find it disgusting how much our media is a tool of the government. During the Egyptian riots they considered it an uprising to take over the government and covered it like there was good chance for an overthrow of the government.

For this one they talk about the difficulty the Turkish government is facing against these protesters.

The police attacked taksim, starting from this morning.

I tried to go there tonight with some foreigners, but we turned back as soon as we got tear gas. People I was leading didn't have the stomach to continue. I assume that the library is destroyed (it was in the park but near the square) but I may be wrong. We'll see about it soon. I'll try to go there tomorrow with some more experienced folks.

I'm curious about the similarities between Taksim and OWS.
Are they using a General Assembly consensus model for mass decision making?
Have they pooled funds based around working groups, ie flyer making, food distribution, march organization?
Are there treasurers of any kind in these groups or the group at large?

As far as donations go, I think a proof of concept viral 'tip demonstration' might do more good than a monetary donation per se. For example, reddit btc tips turning into more tips, allowing for wider possibility of adoption.

My primary concern is, collectivist movements tend to look down on anything that has to do with money, and often for good reason. Therefore I would suggest a more generic privacy awareness campaign, which I think is becoming an essential need in Turkey. This can cover providing free VPN access, introduction to sharing information and trading privately, circumventing government censorship, and most importantly an initial discussion about what can be done in case of an Internet blackout.

While we would all agree on a goal to create an environment which would remove these needs, it's important to note that governments are more inclined to implement laws that are enforceable. So even if there isn't an ongoing rampant abuse by the State (which seems to be the case in Turkey anyway), widespread privacy awareness would be a deterrent by itself.

Hi,

I haven't contacted the people that organize the library. I will go and talk to them, next time I go to taksim, which may take a while, because I need to attend a conference this week.

I don't think they will accept monetary donation, but I'll let you know what they tell me.

Thank you.
I'm going to do my best to get some btc sent your way via the OWS Library. Hopefully, you can use them to spread awareness, whether its demonstrating how to use them or using them for flyers ect. How do you feel about this idea?

I could organize a bitcoin aid campaign if need be. Right now, the whole country is watching the events there, so the people who are staying there are supported by everyone in the country. I don't feel like they need material help at this point. I was there for a big demonstration yesterday, and it was so crowded, I could only stay for an hour. There was an old woman on the metro going to taksim, wearing a Guy Fawkes mask playfully to scare what looked like her granddaughter.

Another thing is that I don't want to be personally responsible for the transfer of a lot of bitcoins to the right people. So my suggestion would be that if the government tries to censor the internet etc. As the bitcoin community, we can provide high quality, paid vpn services for the people at the park.

That way those who want to contribute may pay for the vpn service directly and I would publish the information for these vpn accounts in turkish over facebook etc. to the organizers. I am not sure if this would be feasible in practice, but this is what I thought would make sense.

However, right now, this does not seem to be an issue either. The people are impossible to convince to use vpn (or open source alternatives to facebook or twitter), unless there is a problem with them (I know, it is stupid, but this is how it is).

I stayed there the night on saturday. I talked to some random people about bitcoins among other things. I can say that there is no awareness whatsoever about bitcoins in Turkey.

Go there and ask 'em.

Anyone got some info on btc addresses for people there?

Ok, there it is.

I flew in last night to Istanbul and I was finally at taksim today. It looks surreal.

At this time the park was full of young people (mostly students). There were stands of small leftist organizations, green/ecological ngo's, universities and gay and lesbian organizations. The taksim square (as opposed to the park), was occupied by leftist political parties. there was an open air library and a makeshift 'revolution museum'.

The police has left the square to the people last Saturday. The place is being run by citizen organisations for a week now. It is actually particularly well organized. There are now people selling stuff also, from gas masks, to various flags to watermelons. While I was there, they were anouncing that people shouldn't buy stuff from commercial stands but rather share it from the free ones.

Police says that they will not do anything until Monday. We'll see what they will do afterwards. I hope taksim stays like this. It would be a monument of what the people can do.

it sez:

"Before the police started gassing people, the gezi park occupation was like this. Those who don't see it or don't show it have no shame."

As of the early morning of monday 03 june:

The events have further spread accross the country. Taksim square is now completely under the control of demonstrators. But the police violence continues elsewhere in the country including Ankara (the capital). They use the tear gas to punish people rather than try to push them anywhere. In any case, the tear gas is becoming completely useless because people now know what to expect, and they still come back when the gas is gone.

Apparently the demonstrators in Taksim square are still decidedly peaceful. There were no widespread vandalism (except against police cars, and a pastry shop owned by the mayor), and the demonstrators were picking up the trash sunday morning. It is apparently more like a festival at this point, with a collective music group playing "ciao bella" etc.

There are widespread complaints by people that the local media is playing it down. All the mainstream news channels continue with their daily routine. When the events were taking place, cnn-turk, ntv, haber-turk (local mainstream news channels) were showing documentaries on penguins or cooking shows.

I am not sure if this will continue into the week with this kind of intensity, especially with Erdogan leaving the country until Thursday.

One thing that became clear is that, we need a sort of police technologies information database. For instance a website which keeps track of the crowd control technologies that the police use (tear gas, pepper spray, orange gas etc.) by country, and develop methods of fighting against them. While people are rather creative: they build their makeshift masks and stuff, it could be more efficient if there were more individuals who were already prepared.

I remember from while I lived in the US, the cops would have some fake demonstrations (with actors who were also cops I guess), to train for the actual demonstrations in the school's parking lot. This was at the time of the Iraq war, and I later saw them use those tactics against us, when we were demonstrating against the war.

If I were one of those cops, I would need a change of pants.

Except that "Ataturk" was an extreme secularist and the current government has "islamic roots". So what the education system thought to people older than 20-25 is in complete contradiction to the point of view of the current government.

However the current government is successful economically. And they are not really "islamists". They are more like the Christian democrats in Europe, I guess.

So, while I agree, there is some twist.

Hrmm, most states seem to do a great job keeping anarchism on the hush-hush, so it's not likely they'd try anything.  I'd be utterly shocked if they knew what they were doing:


With this in mind, it's almost guaranteed they're all just pissed off and have no idea what they really want out of it, aside from showing a whole lot of discontent.

And frankly, that would be the best result for all involved. Historically, when a mob topples a government over an unpopular policy, the end result is not good. Now, if they had a goal in mind, something other than inchoate rage, then they might be able to get something done. Probably still end up bad, but at least there's a chance.

These guys are clearly not 'organized' for some purpose. No political movement, no ideology. It is really pure frustration by common people against authoritarianism. At least this is what it looks like.

To be frank, I'd doubt that they could topple the government. I am not sure if that is what they want either. I think if the government said "ok we cancel the plan to demolish the park" and pulled the cops back, they may as well go back home.

Sure I do, I wish them the best of luck.

But with the lack of purpose and just anger, they will end up just like Occupy Wall Street.

If it were a CIA operation, the work would already be going on behind the scenes to turn the protest into a government take-over. Like Egypt and Iran in '78.