Topic: OccupyLA on 10/1 !! We will be there in Bitcoin Attire! Financial Revolution! - page 3. (Read 7996 times)

A reasonable definition of freedom is: not using coercion, theft, fraud, or violence to advance one's goals. It's unfortunate that advocating such a message elicits the label of "cult."

Seems to me that it might be more reasonable to use the cult label when describing people who worship flags, badges, and the scripture of legislatures as moral truth. Put the average libertarian next to the average police office, soldier, IRS agent, Congressman, or "Supreme Court" justice. Observe their codes of conduct, their rituals, and the the meaning they derive from symbols, authority figures, and protocol. Observe who tells you how to act, dress, speak, and obey. Observe who demands conformity and obedience.

Which side exhibits traits of individualism, and which of collectivism? Which side should more properly be described as the cult?

That's funny, to try to sum up libertarians as a cult. Good try though, in that case every gathering with purpose is a cult.
The best part is we discuss real world issues, while the hippy/socialist/communist cults out there worship love and peace, two extremely difficult to define terms that are almost non-applicable to govt. and important decision making.

I have debated here and other places past the point of wanting to teach you poor misguided people what this country is based on. I have proven myself beyond a doubt, and the things that I fight for are right in line with what America was intended to be. Not some communistic fairy tale that gets too real when we get mass murdered.

So here is what I say,
Ya if you oppose what is clearly, obviously, logically, certainly, the movement made by true American patriots trying to "fix" what went wrong with their great country, Then you better duck and run. Because you might as well be invading Long Beach Harbor to me, you are still an enemy. It is just about past the point of talking. These pathetic LARasa groups are going to catch a special hot one from the ruger. I cant believe we dont straight mop them up on sight. They think they are all bad because they have never got a taste, they think Americans are pussy and waiting to be taken over, I have heard them say it themselves out at the rally, with bandanas sunglasses and gloves like they were gonna do something.lol.

Anyways, If any socialist or lib or w/e really wants to further his cause, read a history book and then come join us. Or you will be executed by the time we are done. And thats real.
Sorry to explain it like a mother fucking patriot, but My forefathers would be pissed i havent killed some of these anti american jokes yet.

LOL, violence from these hippy ravers??? Give me a break, lol. When they throw a bottle or molitov, we fire a .223 at their head.

I think it is rather clear for those who spend the time to think about it.

Libertarians are happy to leave other people with the freedom to say "no" I don't want to participate in XX activity.

Statists,  want to take away my freedom to say "no",  I don't want to participate in XX activity.

I'm happy to allow Atlas to do whatever he wants as long as I don't have to participate.

Unfortunately,  Atlas would advocate that force and violence be used against me to compel me participate in whatever government plan he is advocating.

Because of people who share Atlas' world view, I don't have the "freedom" to say "no",  I won't participate with social security,  medicare,  public schools,  socialized medicine, etc.

I think it is clear who is advocating freedom,  and who is advocating compulsion.

Bitcoin tips the balance of power in favor of those who value freedom.
That is why so many libertarian types are attracted to Bitcoin.  (Myself included)

The definition of freedom is in the eye of the beholder.

Because you have openly challenged a lot of their libertarian views, you are now deemed by 'them' as being an 'enemy' to their 'freedom'. Many other cults display similar tendencies when non believers criticise their beliefs.

My interest is both academic, with a major focus on Accounting and a minor in Economics, and for entertainment value, since there's a really fun mix of insanity and stupidity around these parts.  Honestly, you guys are starting to get a little dull on both fronts, though.

I'm not sure how you find my posts to be 'anti-freedom', though?  That just sounds like some like some bullshit you made up.

FAtlas,

I'm curious.
Every time I see a post of yours on the forum,  you are very anti-Bitcoin,  and very pro-government involvement in every post.
You seem to spend lots of time on this forum where most members have a very different viewpoint than yourself.

I would like to know if you are being paid by an organization to spread your anti-Bitcoin, anti-freedom message on this forum,   or if you just spend this much time because it is entertaining for you on a personal level.

I don't mean this as a personal attack in any way,  I am just curious if spreading Bitcoin negativity is your job.

I think Yifu put this well when I told him about this thread,

"I'll support when I see action other wise I'm too busy just chit chat, there's only so little "real" projects in waves of talks on the forum that have no basis and there are no actions taken. I'm going to ignore this until a plan is be lay out and action have been taken towards a concrete path to a clear goal. Petty differences are really so irrelevant to this cause."

To the folks who've been participating in the philosophical discussions an this thread:

I'm a socialist.  One thing I expect that socialist and libertarians would agree with is that I am NOT a socialist.  I'm fine with that.

I've read all of your comments to me and to one another.  I have agreement with some of the statements, disagreement with some, respect for some arguments, and not so much for others.

I've appreciated enlightening conversations and hope we can get back to them sometime.  For now I am planning to bow out and focus on trying to get Bitcoin known to as many people as possible no matter who they are.  I think that we all recognize that the protests are a good opportunity to do this.

Well to close the gap with the poor countries we need to do like in lybia, that imply a rebelling population and heavy military support to defeat the local dictators (that are always super rich due to drugs, exploting natural resources etc etc)

And that is like a bit more expensive than buying bread for them.

Gabi - you missed my point entirely. And no, the image you posted does not apply to me.

The image i posted apply to you too.

Go check WHY ethiopian are poor and hungry. Then you will discover things like war lords, criminals etc etc. You donate money? Nice, they buy more weapons and don't give a fuck to the people dying.

Seriously guys, if you want to troll, learn to do it in a decent way.

Hmmm I see your point.

There is another easily treatable medical condition that tens of millions are suffering from, known as starvation. Might it be "successful" to take a few percentage points of profit from your bank account and buy bread for them? Surely you are quite wealthy compared to such people, and their need must surely be greater than your desire for your next Blu-ray, case of beer, or book? How much did you spend on your last pair of shoes, and how many days' worth of food could that have purchased for those truly in need? How much have you spent on fuel just for the purpose of air-conditioning your car or house? The computer upon which you typed your message... might it have been more successful to use that money to feed the famished... suffering so unjustly from their easily treatable medical condition?

Or should those few percentage points of profit in your bank account not be included in the taking? Only those wealthier than you ought to surrender their resources? Because from where you're standing, THEY are the rich ones.  But... it does seem that you are far wealthier than the starving Ethiopian, and in terms of comparative lifestyle you are much closer to those rich you despise than the Ethiopian is to you.

Where is the greater wealth gap... and how might we go about closing it? Let's take a look at the extravagances of your lifestyle and I'm sure we can find many ways to be successful.

It's always fun to enjoy successes with other peoples' things, isn't it?

Taxes aren't theft and not having large amounts of the population die from easily treatable medical conditions for a few percentage points of profit is definitely a 'success'.

and you responded like the small child you are  just because some people believe these protests serve no purpose other then to "be cool" doesn't give you the right to be the child you are.

+1 lol this is so on point!

I do apologize if my post was not to your standards.

Perhaps we have different definitions of "success."  If I steal a million dollars from society and build a beautiful park, is that a "successful implementation" of a park?  Does the fact that the beautiful park is desirable give me the moral right to coercively obtain the resources with which to create it?

Your whole post is pretty dumb but this part stands out.  Yes, let's take a debate about whether or not to provide universal healthcare in the direction of questioning 'what is the nature of healthcare'. 

Look at all the other countries that have successfully implemented and continue to run well respected national health services you boob.

That's why it's important to define the meaning of "corruption."  No monetary system would ever change the basic compulsions within people - to lie, cheat, steal, deceive, etc. Corruption of human character will always exist.  BUT, what doesn't need to exist, is the ability of that corruption in human character to leverage the coercive power of government toward its whims. When the government grants favors and special protections, the corruption of human character will inevitably pour into a corrupt governmental system.

The solution to "ending corruption" in this way, is to shrink the government as much as possible. To limit its power to grant favor. To restrain it from interfering with free men and women, from stealing, from war. Reduce the power of central governments, and the corruption of human character will be restrained - its harm limited to the immediate sphere surrounding corrupted individuals, instead of spread or socialized throughout the society.



Fascism and corporatism are similar in many ways... perhaps fascism is just corporatism at a further stage. There is one long gradient path from free-market capitalism toward statism/fascism. We find socialism and corporatism along that path. The way one can determine how far along the path we are, is to observe the extent to which individual property rights are respected. When you surrender half your income to the government, individual property rights have long been abandoned, and nobody should be surprised when some of that stolen money ends up in the hands of those well-connected to government.



Hmmm I think you may not quite be seeing it clearly. If there is a strong disagreement between Bitcoin holders, the block chains can fork, but one group cannot take the coins away from the other. So in a hypothetical world with two classes, a rich and a poor, the poor at worst could fork a chain if they all agreed to do so, and then both classes would operate their own version. It doesn't take a genius to guess which chain would be more respected and ultimately win out.



Wealth is not poker chips.

Those who see wealth as poker chips will inevitably be led toward socialist sympathies. Those who understand that wealth is produced, not distributed, will inevitably be led toward capitalist/libertarian sympathies.

And I'm curious... what is universal health care? All treatment has cost - so to what level of cost are all people entitled, in your view? Do we all have a right to ibuprofen? Or do we have a right to yearly checkups? Or to all drugs and perscriptions? Or do we have a right to infinite health resources?   And if we have a right to a good or service, does that not mandate a slavish claim upon the life of another person? If I'm entitled to ibuprofen, who should be forcefully compelled to produce it for me?

Maybe not, but at least no one will be able to fuck with our money, inflationate it to hell or block account and payments (who said paypal?)