Topic: OFAC-Sanctioned Transactions Being Censored - page 3. (Read 2244 times)

This kind of thing is already well underway. There are protocols such as AOPP to support people KYCing their own wallets. This travesty even gained widespread support from entities which should really know better, like Trezor.

How do you propose we do this once the government succeeds in getting rid of cash and forcing everyone to move to a CBDC, where they have complete surveillance over every transaction?

It is relatively easy to stay anonymous while working with crypto alone without converting to/from fiat. The governments will probably require everyone to register their self-hosted wallets, but they cannot really enforce it, at least not at the moment.

However the weak point of crypto is conversion from/to cash/CBDC. The governments know that and they are heavily regulating that conversion, essentially enforcing KYC on any such operation.

So as long as we find a way to convert crypto to/from fiat without going through KYC, then we should be fine.

I still think you're a bit confused.

CBDCs aren't about making money (VISA/MasterCard already do that as you said).

They're about total control/enslavement.

The government/EU Commission will legislate a daily/monthly/yearly quota of how much red meat you're allowed to consume.

Don't believe me? Check it out yourself:

https://en.topwar.ru/218234-nemeckie-chinovniki-predlagajut-ogranichit-potreblenie-mjasa-v-strane-do-10-grammov-v-den-na-cheloveka.html

Please don't dismiss this if you're vegan, because they also plan to limit other things too... your gasoline consumption, how often you'll be able to use airplanes etc.

Bitcoiners are staunch defenders of freedom, right?

That's why NO ONE should accept the Digital ID (CBDC wallet):

https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/european-digital-identity_en

I've posted this video before, check it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5uqMmAGk8c

Also this one:

https://blog.independent.org/2022/12/01/klaus-schwab-china/

You guys still think the West won't become like China?

Bonus video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjxJ1wPnkk4

I guess that's enough red pilling for today.

As I said, I don't claim to be the ultra revolutionary, but I hate both. I realise that CBDCs are far worse but in my opinion card payments are also bad, because they ar connected to the banking system. The latter is a system I have learnt to live with, but it doesn't mean I like it. Finally, banks try to make money in every possible way, getting absurd money if people fail to pay their credit balance. So, my point is we should not have CBDCs , nor banks. That's why I call them equally bad. The card provider companies get money as a fee for their services, so perhaps my initial accusations are not very fair. But, nevertheless, they are linked with the current financial system, aren't they?

Exactly, which goes back to my previous point that, just like when people throw their KYC around everywhere and then end up with their details being stolen, by the time they realize how terrible CBDCs are it will be too late to do anything about it.

Card payments are definitely less bad than CBDCs. Your credit card provider refuses to let you make a payment? You can at least try another provider, or a bank transfer, or some other option. A government refuses to let you make a payment with their CBDC? Nothing you can do about it.

Ok this is what I thought. Sorry.


The only thing I am saying mate is that they both suck. Between the bad, the worst option may be CBDC but I want to clarify that the current economic system which is bank based, has already huge flaws.

No bank credit system is not similar to social credit score. In fact I don't even want to know what the latter is.

But when the bank adds 17% on top of your expenses because you were one month late and then VISA gets 3% of that, I am sorry, I hate this equally.

If you talk about Debit payments then essentially VISA will get 3% of every payment you make, which is a service fee and it's not that bad. But again the bank owns the money you think you own, so...

I mean don't get me wrong, the only thing I am saying is we choose the bad from the worse.

And of course this: A social credit score is when they check your recent posts on social platforms to see if you support the government and decide if they should loan you money based on that is the most unethical thing I have ever seen, but it's not the only one.

Very interesting video, check it out:

JUST IN 🇩🇪 - German member of Parliament
@JoanaCotar
 bashes CBCDs in the Bundestag WHILE WEARING a #Bitcoin T-shirt.

(English 🔊via AI translation)

https://twitter.com/Swan/status/1722717878003364137

German parliament member ’staunch opponent’ of digital euro, all in on Bitcoin

https://cointelegraph.com/news/german-parliament-member-staunch-opponent-of-digital-euro-all-in-on-bitcoin

No, they don't implement a mandatory carbon credit/social credit score system.

When was the last time you saw VISA/MasterCard reject your red meat/gasoline purchases?

ps: I'm not talking about taking loans. You're confused.

I'm talking about regular debit cards.

Wait, are you saying that bank credit core system is similar to social credit score? You must be joking. These are not the same, not even close.
When bank loans you money it wants to know how if you have a stable job, if you have other existing loans and such.
A social credit score is when they check your recent posts on social platforms to see if you support the government and decide if they should loan you money based on that.

But credit cards are linked with banks. This means Visa, MasterCard etc all implement a credit score system for banks.

Btw yeah I have read the entire discussion.

They are NOT the same.

Have you read the entire discussion?

CBDC introduces new variables (carbon credits, social credit score). Cards are different.

The question is: is it better to use card payments with the current system? Or CBDCs? To me they are the same. I see no difference at all.

I hate both, but I admit I use card payments a lot. Some entity is behind the transaction anyway, so...

What I meant by "they're not the sheep" is that there's a boundary that when crossed causes people to rise up and riot. You could for instance see it when the governments enforced covid lockdowns.

Yes, people like convenience and usually don't care where the money comes from, which is why they use credit cards and will probably use CBDC money, but it will all stop when the government forbids them to use any other form of payment (cash, crypto) and when they get to feel the impact of social credit scores and carbon footprint taxation. IMO people who are for CBDCs and might use them don't realize yet what they'll bring to the table along with the so called convenience.


Using your analogy, you're being moved from a normal prison to maximum security, but you're still in jail. If that isn't a bad thing then what is?
I'd call them bad because they bring along complete elimination of other forms of payment once enough people use them along fiat money.

They will first invite you to use CBDC, by lowering taxes, giving people free money if they register and download wallets, (which is the carrot) and once there's enough market penetration they'll start using the stick and increasing fees when you use other money, impose additional taxes on merchants who continue to use fiat, decrease the number of available ATMs, increase limits on cash payments and finally remove cash completely. They'll stop printing it and the bills that are in exchange will become scarcer. Also, in countries with high inflation it will take maybe 10 years before there's a need for larger bills and the gov. will not print them, to make it inconvenient for people to carry bags of cash around. The problem will solve itself.

Where I live, even in small shops you go to pay for a coffee and they bring out the POS as if they assume you are going to pay by card or mobile phone. Sometimes I feel weird taking out the cash, but I still pay with cash as much as possible for ideological reasons, activism if you want to call it that. Although it seems to me to be swimming against the tide and news like the banning of mixers on the forum, the possibility of censoring transactions becoming more and more real and the legislations that are being prepared make me see the future quite dark.

If we add to that the number of people who worked for a mixer and received payments directly in their Binance accounts, at least seven, I see it as even darker.

Most people still use cash a bit, and some people (like me) still use cash a lot. Just because a majority of sheep won't notice any difference doesn't mean we should roll over and accept CBDCs. And just because a majority of people won't be affected by OFAC censorship in bitcoin doesn't mean we should just roll over and accept that either.

What the majority are doing is a very bad metric when it comes to privacy, as most people simply don't care until it affects them personally.

If you guys still believe this is a "conspiracy theory", then I don't know what else to tell you:

It’s time to limit how often we can travel abroad – ‘carbon passports’ may be the answer

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/carbon-passports-explainer/index.html

This is only possible with CBDC + carbon credits.

You still don't get it... my point wasn't the record of financial history.

Currently I'm able to buy as much red meat/gasoline as I like with fiat money (either cash or credit/debit card). Right?

Will you be able to do the same with CBDC? Or will they restrict your red meat/gasoline consumption to "mitigate" climate change? Answer this question please.

Sure, BTC is an option (as long as it doesn't become centralized/censor-friendly).

XMR is potentially another...

You will be forced to use the black/grey market to buy red meat or gasoline in the future. They will be like drugs (cocaine, heroin). People don't use banks/cards to buy drugs, they use cash for a reason.

That's true but my point is that we have been on this path of digitalization and full monitoring for a long time, even before the concept of CBDC was introduced. They are just trying to centralize it more and force it on the population under a fancy name. Otherwise in this day and age people aren't using cash that much already and majority of their transactions are already easily surveilled.

Current banking system already has a record of all your financial activity that goes through them without having a fancy disguise for it and on top of that there is a massive database in NSA with your every move inside of it, your financial activity is the least of it. After all they have to use their tens of billions of dollars budget for something!

THEY aren't optional, Bitcoin is. You have the option to choose bitcoin to exit that corrupt system and cut the hands that are in your pocket.

Exactly!

I know no-coiners who understand this, so I'm surprised Bitcoiners don't get it.

Not true.

The current banking system doesn't have: 1) carbon credits, 2) social credit score.

Look it up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djpRUafjx7c

MasterCard has already implemented it:

https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/vision/corp-responsibility/priceless-planet/carbon-calculator.html
https://www.mastercard.com/news/press/2021/april/mastercard-unveils-new-carbon-calculator-tool/

And no, this won't be optional with CBDC + Digital ID... I remember people thinking COVID mRNA vaccines would be "optional".

They're "optional" only if you don't mind losing access to workplaces, universities, hospitals, cafes/restaurants (remember the QR/Green Pass?) etc.

The danger is real and the more people dismiss it, the more it creeps up into our lives.

The goal of CBDCs is to eliminate cash and have everything electronic, and therefore have everything 100% traceable and 100% censorable. This is definitely worse than the current system, where you can at least escape some surveillance and retain some control by using cash.