This all said by the one who received an email to pickup his avalons before anyone else received any kind of notice...
What's up shill? Having a nice day?
Topic: Official Avalon mining rig clones thread from bitmine.ch (NOW SHIPPING) - page 5. (Read 58539 times)
September 09, 2013, 08:50:07 AM
September 09, 2013, 08:37:13 AM
They do not recognize this. In previous emails exchanged with them, I made clear we invested on them. Their answer was as cold/rude as it could be. "We do not sell investments, we sell products."
If buying a non existing product from a non experienced "company" based on promises is not an investment on them........
... (then) ... show me your investment contract!If buying a non existing product from a non experienced "company" based on promises is not an investment on them........
I guess you bought a product and not an investment. That fact that the product was not in hand straight away makes no difference.
So for example ... you buy new car (BMW, VW, Nissan, ... whatever is your favorite) ... it gets custom made according to your needs and then (usually after months of waiting) delivered (or you arranged factory pick).
Is that an investment as well? I guess not.
You could argue that the Avalon Clones make you money and the car doesn't, but even if you have a Pizza delivery service or run a taxi, I doubt very much that the car manufacturer gives you your money back (or free upgrades ... some dealers might do ... but not the manufacturer), if they bring out a newer and better version in the meantime. So in the end you can cry all day long, but it does not change the fact that you made a mistake in buying that product in the first place.
And here comes the big IF: If I would have known that before, I would not have bought them myself. But after thinking long and hard (when I still had the chance to opt-out) I decided to stay on.
Here comes the small if (at least for me): If you did not think it through, because greed controlled your brain all the way, until you realized that you overpaid or bought the wrong product, then I feel sorry for you and hope you learned a lesson (as did I).
Never the less ... peace and mine for everyone!
one4many
September 09, 2013, 08:36:08 AM
Bitmine.ch was and is the one profiting the most (by far) and thus is, has and should also bear most risk. Not customers.
Customer protection laws are quite strong here too.
Customer protection laws are quite strong here too.
http://www.coindesk.com/avalon-asic-customer-bitcoin-refunds-delivery-delays/
Can't imagine why haven't they asked for their refund.
... they won't let us early investors, who provided them the cash to even start their bitcoin business, down with a complete loss.
They do not recognize this. In previous emails exchanged with them, I made clear we invested on them. Their answer was as cold/rude as it could be. "We do not sell investments, we sell products."
If buying a non existing product from a non experienced "company" based on promises is not an investment on them........
What you said is truth , but I think that they sell "imaginary" products.
September 09, 2013, 08:20:55 AM
Bitmine.ch was and is the one profiting the most (by far) and thus is, has and should also bear most risk. Not customers.
Customer protection laws are quite strong here too.
Customer protection laws are quite strong here too.
http://www.coindesk.com/avalon-asic-customer-bitcoin-refunds-delivery-delays/
Can't imagine why haven't they asked for their refund.
... they won't let us early investors, who provided them the cash to even start their bitcoin business, down with a complete loss.
They do not recognize this. In previous emails exchanged with them, I made clear we invested on them. Their answer was as cold/rude as it could be. "We do not sell investments, we sell products."
If buying a non existing product from a non experienced "company" based on promises is not an investment on them........
I am wondering too - and this is roughly what I would like to hear from them:
Cut the Avalon nightmare short - get refund for ordered chips - and offer bitmine.ch 2nd gen upgrades/replacements.
Else refund the customers that wish to do so.
September 09, 2013, 08:16:35 AM
Bitmine.ch was and is the one profiting the most (by far) and thus is, has and should also bear most risk. Not customers.
Customer protection laws are quite strong here too.
Customer protection laws are quite strong here too.
http://www.coindesk.com/avalon-asic-customer-bitcoin-refunds-delivery-delays/
Can't imagine why haven't they asked for their refund.
... they won't let us early investors, who provided them the cash to even start their bitcoin business, down with a complete loss.
They do not recognize this. In previous emails exchanged with them, I made clear we invested on them. Their answer was as cold/rude as it could be. "We do not sell investments, we sell products."
If buying a non existing product from a non experienced "company" based on promises is not an investment on them........
September 09, 2013, 08:05:17 AM
Swiss people are among the most honest and upright folks I've done business with in my life. They would rather pay out of their own pockets, before they screw you in a deal.
I'm quite certain that the guys from bitmine will come up with a fair solution to this situation, they won't let us early investors, who provided them the cash to even start their bitcoin business, down with a complete loss.
Who else did receive their Avalon clones? I would love to hear some more success stories
I'm quite certain that the guys from bitmine will come up with a fair solution to this situation, they won't let us early investors, who provided them the cash to even start their bitcoin business, down with a complete loss.
Who else did receive their Avalon clones? I would love to hear some more success stories
September 09, 2013, 07:31:18 AM
In less than two weeks after getting the chips, the first Avalon clones where manufactured and left our warehouse in Camorino, Switzerland.
While most of the customers opted to get their orders shipped, the very first units where picked up on Wednesday and some others will leave through UPS Express service. Tracking number will be provided once available for your order. Please note that the units are delivered according to the original orders queue, so your unit may not show up as shipped yet till next week. While we fully understand the pressure, please do not inquire about the status of your order as we are already doing the best to expedite the process and your order status will be updated by us as soon as updated information such as the tracking number becomes available.
Thank you!
While most of the customers opted to get their orders shipped, the very first units where picked up on Wednesday and some others will leave through UPS Express service. Tracking number will be provided once available for your order. Please note that the units are delivered according to the original orders queue, so your unit may not show up as shipped yet till next week. While we fully understand the pressure, please do not inquire about the status of your order as we are already doing the best to expedite the process and your order status will be updated by us as soon as updated information such as the tracking number becomes available.
Thank you!
How do the 2 weeks compare?
Unfortunately only the overall time is relevant imho.
Also it would be time to step forward and treat your early customers like they deserved it. What can customers expect in terms of upgrade options. We are waiting for months - and our estimated (now calculated) ROI got crushed within the last 1 month.
Hearing some (likely non customers) complaining that "the risk for customers should have been clear in the first place" - I have to strongly disagree with that opinion.
Bitmine.ch was and is the one profiting the most (by far) and thus is, has and should also bear most of the inherent risk. Not customers.
Waiting for real news.
September 08, 2013, 11:06:21 PM
batch 2 miners cost the most and difficulty is rising...there no more chances for any ROI...
September 08, 2013, 02:41:56 PM
und was ist mit Info für Batch 2 und 3 Käufer auf upgrade ?
wie wird die Bestellreinfolge bearbeitet ?
wäre es nicht fair erst mal ihre Bestandskunden zu bedienen bevor weitere Verkaufsbestellung angenommen werden !
ich freue mich auf Ihre eigenen Miner bitte nicht falsch verstehen aber durch die vorbestellten Avalon-Clone-Miner haben sie schon Minimum 300 Geräte die sie fertigen müssen Batch 2 Kunden warten dann schon 6 Monate auf Gerät zum arbeiten
and what about info for batch 2 and 3 buyers upgrade?
how is the net result order processed?
it would not be fair only once their existing customers to use before further sales order are accepted!
I look forward to your own Miner please do not misunderstand, but by the reserved Avalon Clone Miner they already have minimum 300 devices must customize Batch 2 clients then have six months to wait for the device to work
wie wird die Bestellreinfolge bearbeitet ?
wäre es nicht fair erst mal ihre Bestandskunden zu bedienen bevor weitere Verkaufsbestellung angenommen werden !
ich freue mich auf Ihre eigenen Miner bitte nicht falsch verstehen aber durch die vorbestellten Avalon-Clone-Miner haben sie schon Minimum 300 Geräte die sie fertigen müssen Batch 2 Kunden warten dann schon 6 Monate auf Gerät zum arbeiten
and what about info for batch 2 and 3 buyers upgrade?
how is the net result order processed?
it would not be fair only once their existing customers to use before further sales order are accepted!
I look forward to your own Miner please do not misunderstand, but by the reserved Avalon Clone Miner they already have minimum 300 devices must customize Batch 2 clients then have six months to wait for the device to work
+1
Möchte auch die Infos für die Upgrades - würde gerne meine Batch2 Orders upgraden. / Too want to upgrade my Batch2 orders.
September 08, 2013, 01:08:15 PM
und was ist mit Info für Batch 2 und 3 Käufer auf upgrade ?
wie wird die Bestellreinfolge bearbeitet ?
wäre es nicht fair erst mal ihre Bestandskunden zu bedienen bevor weitere Verkaufsbestellung angenommen werden !
ich freue mich auf Ihre eigenen Miner bitte nicht falsch verstehen aber durch die vorbestellten Avalon-Clone-Miner haben sie schon Minimum 300 Geräte die sie fertigen müssen Batch 2 Kunden warten dann schon 6 Monate auf Gerät zum arbeiten
and what about info for batch 2 and 3 buyers upgrade?
how is the net result order processed?
it would not be fair only once their existing customers to use before further sales order are accepted!
I look forward to your own Miner please do not misunderstand, but by the reserved Avalon Clone Miner they already have minimum 300 devices must customize Batch 2 clients then have six months to wait for the device to work
wie wird die Bestellreinfolge bearbeitet ?
wäre es nicht fair erst mal ihre Bestandskunden zu bedienen bevor weitere Verkaufsbestellung angenommen werden !
ich freue mich auf Ihre eigenen Miner bitte nicht falsch verstehen aber durch die vorbestellten Avalon-Clone-Miner haben sie schon Minimum 300 Geräte die sie fertigen müssen Batch 2 Kunden warten dann schon 6 Monate auf Gerät zum arbeiten
and what about info for batch 2 and 3 buyers upgrade?
how is the net result order processed?
it would not be fair only once their existing customers to use before further sales order are accepted!
I look forward to your own Miner please do not misunderstand, but by the reserved Avalon Clone Miner they already have minimum 300 devices must customize Batch 2 clients then have six months to wait for the device to work
September 07, 2013, 10:26:46 PM
any news on batch 2?
September 07, 2013, 10:17:51 AM
So they're scheduling delivery to customers for the first half of December, while saying on the chip page "Please note that while we took the highest possible care in doing accurate and conservative simulations, the real performances of the final product could vary by a +/- 20% tolerance."
In other words, they don't yet have a working prototype from which they can draw real performance numbers.
I feel a bitbet "Bitmine will deliver 28nm miners in December" bet coming on.
In other words, they don't yet have a working prototype from which they can draw real performance numbers.
I feel a bitbet "Bitmine will deliver 28nm miners in December" bet coming on.
September 07, 2013, 08:21:49 AM
I'm still waiting for my refund...
Not even for refunds they are "trustworthy" and good guys, can you tell how much time are you waiting for, because the people who buy the avalon clone had to pay in 1week
September 07, 2013, 08:11:11 AM
I'm still waiting for my refund...
September 07, 2013, 08:02:13 AM
And now they are going to sell another batch on the 9th September without even the clients from the 1#batch, beside you, receiving their machines.
They == Avalon or they == bitmine.ch?
Bitmine.ch is selling machines on the 9th of September which are not Avalon clones
https://bitmine.ch/?p=882
The two projects are not related and the selling of the 28 nm ASIC has no impact on the production
of Avalon clones
They bitmine.ch, but what do you work for then? I dont say it will have on production, they are trying to get more money before they even show some work. What i saw was photos of the same guy.
September 07, 2013, 07:50:11 AM
The unit comes with the latest firmware (20130723) and the default settings clock wise is 325 MHz, which gives you around 100 to 105 GH/s.
Upgrade to http://ck.kolivas.org/apps/cgminer/avalon/20130821/ for better results
Quote
I experimented with one machine a little and overclocked it to 350 Mhz which resulted in a stable 110 GH/s with a error rate of nearly 7 % (!), which is far to high. Temperature readings at the time where T1:20 T2:46 and T3:47 in a 19 degree cooled server room.
Overclocking the chips to 375 Mhz was a absolutely disaster at a hashing rate of 64 GH/s and error rate of over 50 %.
Overclocking the chips to 375 Mhz was a absolutely disaster at a hashing rate of 64 GH/s and error rate of over 50 %.
Did you note the power consumption at the power plug at those speeds?
It seems the bitmine.ch has a 1000 Watt power supply which is a bit on the edge.
A 1200 W power supply would have left more room for running at 350 MHz (the original Avalons run fine at this speed and I hope bitmine.ch has applied more thermal paste to get better cooling)
September 07, 2013, 07:44:56 AM
And now they are going to sell another batch on the 9th September without even the clients from the 1#batch, beside you, receiving their machines.
They == Avalon or they == bitmine.ch?
Bitmine.ch is selling machines on the 9th of September which are not Avalon clones
https://bitmine.ch/?p=882
The two projects are not related and the selling of the 28 nm ASIC has no impact on the production
of Avalon clones
September 07, 2013, 07:21:03 AM
Because Avalon didn't delivery the promise, their clients have to play the price for it, after they promise to make some type of upgrade for the delay. Yes they are truly trustworthy and keep they promise.
And now they are going to sell another batch on the 9th September without even the clients from the 1#batch, beside you, receiving their machines.
And now they are going to sell another batch on the 9th September without even the clients from the 1#batch, beside you, receiving their machines.
September 07, 2013, 06:47:52 AM
Hello everybody,
as promised a bit more info on my 'delivery experience' with bitmine.ch last Wednesday.
Initially I choose to get my units shipped, but because
a) I met the bitmine guys already and we had a very good and informative discussion
b) and I live near by
I decided to pick them up myself.
Giorgio sent me an email before and told me not to come before 5 pm, because they only got the mining boards with the Avalon chips mounted on them from the factory by mid day. When I arrived only half of my batch was ready to go and the other half was still in final assembly. Christian and Giorgio took me on a tour through the assembly process and explained how and why they build the clones the way they are.
The weakest link in the Avalon miner design is actually the shitty TP-Link router, which runs OpenWRT with cgminer on it. But as they wanted to create a clone they needed to copy that as well. The by far better and probably more stable solution would be a Raspberry Pi, but I guess in their next project (announcement went out today) this unit plays a vital part.
The machines I got are very well made and as written before are a 99 % copy of the existing Avalon design. The only difference is the case, because the Aluminum Case from YiFu is just to heavy and not practical at all.
The unit comes with the latest firmware (20130723) and the default settings clock wise is 325 MHz, which gives you around 100 to 105 GH/s.
I experimented with one machine a little and overclocked it to 350 Mhz which resulted in a stable 110 GH/s with a error rate of nearly 7 % (!), which is far to high. Temperature readings at the time where T1:20 T2:46 and T3:47 in a 19 degree cooled server room.
Overclocking the chips to 375 Mhz was a absolutely disaster at a hashing rate of 64 GH/s and error rate of over 50 %.
And here for fun and frolics some pictures:
That's it ... so my impression is that bitmine.ch is run by trustworthy guys who try to keep their promises and stay honest all the time. I sucks that Avalon did not deliver chips and in turn wasted their (initially good) reputation. The great no bullshit policy turned into a complete mess for the whole community.
I hope it was worth it YiFu.
Mine and peace for everybody!
one4many
as promised a bit more info on my 'delivery experience' with bitmine.ch last Wednesday.
Initially I choose to get my units shipped, but because
a) I met the bitmine guys already and we had a very good and informative discussion
b) and I live near by
I decided to pick them up myself.
Giorgio sent me an email before and told me not to come before 5 pm, because they only got the mining boards with the Avalon chips mounted on them from the factory by mid day. When I arrived only half of my batch was ready to go and the other half was still in final assembly. Christian and Giorgio took me on a tour through the assembly process and explained how and why they build the clones the way they are.
The weakest link in the Avalon miner design is actually the shitty TP-Link router, which runs OpenWRT with cgminer on it. But as they wanted to create a clone they needed to copy that as well. The by far better and probably more stable solution would be a Raspberry Pi, but I guess in their next project (announcement went out today) this unit plays a vital part.
The machines I got are very well made and as written before are a 99 % copy of the existing Avalon design. The only difference is the case, because the Aluminum Case from YiFu is just to heavy and not practical at all.
The unit comes with the latest firmware (20130723) and the default settings clock wise is 325 MHz, which gives you around 100 to 105 GH/s.
I experimented with one machine a little and overclocked it to 350 Mhz which resulted in a stable 110 GH/s with a error rate of nearly 7 % (!), which is far to high. Temperature readings at the time where T1:20 T2:46 and T3:47 in a 19 degree cooled server room.
Overclocking the chips to 375 Mhz was a absolutely disaster at a hashing rate of 64 GH/s and error rate of over 50 %.
And here for fun and frolics some pictures:
 Not 100 % ready yet ... |  One Clone coming up! |
 More to come soon! |  After a looooong day ... |
That's it ... so my impression is that bitmine.ch is run by trustworthy guys who try to keep their promises and stay honest all the time. I sucks that Avalon did not deliver chips and in turn wasted their (initially good) reputation. The great no bullshit policy turned into a complete mess for the whole community.
I hope it was worth it YiFu.
Mine and peace for everybody!
one4many
September 07, 2013, 05:57:36 AM
The units should be J/GH or W/(GH/s)
Yes you are right
You beat DaT to point it out, I guess he must be sleeping ;-)
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