Do not invest in anything, if you can´t take the risk.
Buy BTC, send them to a paperwallet and wait.
You will never get more BTC then you bought this way,
but you don´t have to trust anyone.
Topic: Official Avalon mining rig clones thread from bitmine.ch (NOW SHIPPING) - page 9. (Read 58539 times)
August 27, 2013, 03:37:04 AM
August 27, 2013, 02:52:14 AM
You all knew the risk before getting in.
If they deliver in 1 week; they are only one month late from the date given when batch 1 opened. This is, given asic standards, pretty good.
And if the price keeps rising, you'll get ROI.
If they deliver in 1 week; they are only one month late from the date given when batch 1 opened. This is, given asic standards, pretty good.
And if the price keeps rising, you'll get ROI.
August 27, 2013, 01:54:52 AM
(DELETED)Did you really think that, if someone offers something to good to be true, that (for once) it is actually true!
Wake up and say hello to reality!
August 26, 2013, 07:51:14 PM
Wow, quite a surprise - kudos for producing the chips out of a thin air! My order number is 194 with local pickup - are you going to you inform customers a day or two before their miners will be ready?
August 26, 2013, 02:22:45 PM
These are some really BAD NEWS !!
First, you should be proud to make this announcement if this had been done on the end of July'13.
This protects our investment and satisfaction?
No! This is only a shameless try to protect your image, lets be sincere here, you failed to deliver the product. Why? You really belive that your costumers should care why you failed at this?
From the news posted on August 9, 2013 on you site anyone can read the following:
You clearly state that "Our current plan is to wait a couple of more weeks for Avalon to fulfill their obligations, but if there are further delays we will initiate the process of upgrading FOR FREE all of our orders to the next generation of bitcoin miners based on Bitfury’s 55nm chips"..
Did Avalon fulfilled their obligations? No.
Is everyone expecting you to keep your word? Yes.
Are you keeping your word? Clearly not!
Why don't you do like everyone else and ask for a refund? Why would you think we (your costumers) would accept this solution (knowing what we know now)?
Bitmine should be very ashamed to even consider this at this point. It is very clear to anyone that you should start upgrading every order as you stated.
We're very proud to announce that our batch #1 customers will see their orders being shipped beginning early next week!
Despite being one of the rarest "elements" on earth due to Avalon's delayed shipping, we were anyway able to source from third parties a lot of Avalon ICs that is big enough to assemble all of our Batch #1 units.
Despite being one of the rarest "elements" on earth due to Avalon's delayed shipping, we were anyway able to source from third parties a lot of Avalon ICs that is big enough to assemble all of our Batch #1 units.
First, you should be proud to make this announcement if this had been done on the end of July'13.
...in order to protect our customer's investment and satisfaction it was our top priority to source the ICs somewhere else as fast as possible.
This protects our investment and satisfaction?
No! This is only a shameless try to protect your image, lets be sincere here, you failed to deliver the product. Why? You really belive that your costumers should care why you failed at this?
From the news posted on August 9, 2013 on you site anyone can read the following:
Quote
As far as our production plan is concerned, we have everything in stock and we’re ready for production of all the three batches of units as soon as we get the chips. Our current plan is to wait a couple of more weeks for Avalon to fulfill their obligations, but if there are further delays we will initiate the process of upgrading FOR FREE all of our orders to the next generation of bitcoin miners based on Bitfury’s 55nm chips, a product we’ve been working on for almost two months now and that is 15 times more power efficient than the current generation devices, with the hashing power ranging from an entry level, 50 GHash/s retail miner up to the fully-populated, 2 THash/s industrial-grade power monster. These new miners will be available for sale to everybody else beginning in October.
You clearly state that "Our current plan is to wait a couple of more weeks for Avalon to fulfill their obligations, but if there are further delays we will initiate the process of upgrading FOR FREE all of our orders to the next generation of bitcoin miners based on Bitfury’s 55nm chips"..
Did Avalon fulfilled their obligations? No.
Is everyone expecting you to keep your word? Yes.
Are you keeping your word? Clearly not!
Why don't you do like everyone else and ask for a refund? Why would you think we (your costumers) would accept this solution (knowing what we know now)?
Bitmine should be very ashamed to even consider this at this point. It is very clear to anyone that you should start upgrading every order as you stated.
August 26, 2013, 10:59:20 AM
We're very proud to announce that our batch #1 customers will see their orders being shipped beginning early next week!
Despite being one of the rarest "elements" on earth due to Avalon's delayed shipping, we were anyway able to source from third parties a lot of Avalon ICs that is big enough to assemble all of our Batch #1 units. We could have waited for the delivery of our own batch, but in order to protect our customer's investment and satisfaction it was our top priority to source the ICs somewhere else as fast as possible. This is also good news for our batch #2 users, as when we'll receive the first lot of chips from Avalon, these will go directly to the assembly of the first batch #2 orders.
We would like to thank all of our customers for their understanding of the reasons behind the three weeks delayed shipping and would like to confirm that batch #2 buyers will probably still see their miners shipped on time.
Despite being one of the rarest "elements" on earth due to Avalon's delayed shipping, we were anyway able to source from third parties a lot of Avalon ICs that is big enough to assemble all of our Batch #1 units. We could have waited for the delivery of our own batch, but in order to protect our customer's investment and satisfaction it was our top priority to source the ICs somewhere else as fast as possible. This is also good news for our batch #2 users, as when we'll receive the first lot of chips from Avalon, these will go directly to the assembly of the first batch #2 orders.
We would like to thank all of our customers for their understanding of the reasons behind the three weeks delayed shipping and would like to confirm that batch #2 buyers will probably still see their miners shipped on time.
August 13, 2013, 02:35:57 PM
2 things:
1) The buck stops ... somewhere else? You had no risk in this? Wow that's gotta be the best business deal yet for you.
... and yet ... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2919925
2) You can only estimate a good ROI at the best possible outcome? Ouch.
1) The buck stops ... somewhere else? You had no risk in this? Wow that's gotta be the best business deal yet for you.
... and yet ... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2919925
2) You can only estimate a good ROI at the best possible outcome? Ouch.
August 13, 2013, 02:25:49 PM
Dear all,
Sorry for the late reply to all of your questions, we have been very busy to stay on track with the products that will come AFTER the avalon generation and that is indeed a good thing for all of our customers too, I think. First of all let me say that we are aware of the panic that was generated by Avalon's declaration, in fact I'm one of the first that got very angry at them for what happened and their silly declarations. You know, when you care to make everything perfect and everything gets messed up by a single supplier, you get quite pissed off.
That said you may have read and seen from the picture that we're already assembling the units from batch #1 and #2, in fact if you want you can come to our offices and pickup your unit, but yes... obviously without the Avalon chips, because nobody has them yet! What does that mean? It means that we PAID (read: money went out) not only the Avalon chips (as proof has been posted here already), but also for a huge stock of cases, power supplies, heatsinks, PCB boards (including the quite expensive control units), so I hope that you realise that at this stage, it is really not possible to offer refunds anymore.
We tried, however, to do our best to make everyone happy even if the fault is not ours, we understand that many people have invested great amount of personal money and that's why we're trying our best to make a plan B possible where we will, should the worst happen, upgrade everybody to a newer generation device based on Bitfury chips, this is something that I hope you realise isn't obvious.
Now, getting back to the supply of Avalon chips, we're quite confident that Avalon will deliver the chips in a time that we think should be within two weeks. In fact, right today we received from them the new samples from our batch #2 order, so I don't believe that somebody that wants to disappear, still sends out the promised sample chips. Thanks to the fact that everything is ready, from the day we receive the chips in a very short time of just about one week your miners will be shipped out.
A last, quick note about the fact that everybody is talking about "ROI". Nobody can tell you if you're going to ROI, and the fact is very simple: there are too many variables implied. The biggest of them is the USD exchange rate, if the bitcoin keeps on deflating at the current rate, then if you will sell your mined bitcoins in one year from now, you will have well over your initial investment. Or sell them in two years and who knows maybe you're going to have ten times the initial investment? All the online ROI calculators simply take one exchange rate and consider the profit made based on a constant selling on that rate, but when and if you're going to sell the mined coins is totally up to you.
In case there are still open questions I'll be available to answer them,
Thanks!
Sorry for the late reply to all of your questions, we have been very busy to stay on track with the products that will come AFTER the avalon generation and that is indeed a good thing for all of our customers too, I think. First of all let me say that we are aware of the panic that was generated by Avalon's declaration, in fact I'm one of the first that got very angry at them for what happened and their silly declarations. You know, when you care to make everything perfect and everything gets messed up by a single supplier, you get quite pissed off.
That said you may have read and seen from the picture that we're already assembling the units from batch #1 and #2, in fact if you want you can come to our offices and pickup your unit, but yes... obviously without the Avalon chips, because nobody has them yet! What does that mean? It means that we PAID (read: money went out) not only the Avalon chips (as proof has been posted here already), but also for a huge stock of cases, power supplies, heatsinks, PCB boards (including the quite expensive control units), so I hope that you realise that at this stage, it is really not possible to offer refunds anymore.
We tried, however, to do our best to make everyone happy even if the fault is not ours, we understand that many people have invested great amount of personal money and that's why we're trying our best to make a plan B possible where we will, should the worst happen, upgrade everybody to a newer generation device based on Bitfury chips, this is something that I hope you realise isn't obvious.
Now, getting back to the supply of Avalon chips, we're quite confident that Avalon will deliver the chips in a time that we think should be within two weeks. In fact, right today we received from them the new samples from our batch #2 order, so I don't believe that somebody that wants to disappear, still sends out the promised sample chips. Thanks to the fact that everything is ready, from the day we receive the chips in a very short time of just about one week your miners will be shipped out.
A last, quick note about the fact that everybody is talking about "ROI". Nobody can tell you if you're going to ROI, and the fact is very simple: there are too many variables implied. The biggest of them is the USD exchange rate, if the bitcoin keeps on deflating at the current rate, then if you will sell your mined bitcoins in one year from now, you will have well over your initial investment. Or sell them in two years and who knows maybe you're going to have ten times the initial investment? All the online ROI calculators simply take one exchange rate and consider the profit made based on a constant selling on that rate, but when and if you're going to sell the mined coins is totally up to you.
In case there are still open questions I'll be available to answer them,
Thanks!
August 12, 2013, 03:28:23 PM
look at that: https://bitmine.ch/?p=802
this is totally against their FAQ when I bought the unit!
guys you are breaching the contract! that is fraud!
Quote
That said, here’s now a small clarification regarding our refund policy. When you placed the order, you had the full power to retract from the buying order at anytime, till the status of your order was “Confirmed“. Once you entered in the buying agreement, we stocked and/or produced all the needed parts for your order, along with the purchase of the needed ICs from Avalon. About three weeks ago, we finished sourcing all the parts for the units of batch #1, #2 and #3, everything from the packaging carton to the last screw except, of course, for the hashing units: these are temporarily on hold due to Avalon’s well-known late delivery of the chips. However, these boards will be manufactured within just one week once we get the ASICs from Avalon, so it’s just a matter of weeks if not days. To make the delivery process as fast as possible, we started already the assembly of the cases with the control units, PDUs, cables, fans, etc. and that’s the reason why your order now shows “Production“. At this stage, it is no longer possible to cancel your order and ask for a refund because your unit is already partially manufactured, waiting to be finished and then shipped out.
this is totally against their FAQ when I bought the unit!
Quote
Q: I changed my mind, can I request a refund for my order?
A: YES, if the order wasn’t shipped yet, you are eligible for a full refund based on our Order Refunds Policy. Please contact our support team to ask for a refund. Also, kindly note that if you cancel your order, you will loose your position in the order queue.
A: YES, if the order wasn’t shipped yet, you are eligible for a full refund based on our Order Refunds Policy. Please contact our support team to ask for a refund. Also, kindly note that if you cancel your order, you will loose your position in the order queue.
guys you are breaching the contract! that is fraud!
August 11, 2013, 08:19:33 AM
that news don't really say a lot that customers will get a product to achieve ROI:
if you guarantee that your customers will achieve ROI (BTC ROI, not FIAT!) from batch 2/3 avalon clone than this is a good deal, else we have to hope that you will make us a good offer for nextgen hardware.
post some explanations here please. you have been silent for a while now.
+1 we need a clear statement!Quote
Our current plan is to wait a couple of more weeks for Avalon to fulfill their obligations, but if there are further delays we will initiate the process of upgrading FOR FREE all of our orders to the next generation of bitcoin miners based on Bitfury’s 55nm chips
what means "further delay"? how long do we have to wait? chips are already delayed and ROI is totaly destroyed!if you guarantee that your customers will achieve ROI (BTC ROI, not FIAT!) from batch 2/3 avalon clone than this is a good deal, else we have to hope that you will make us a good offer for nextgen hardware.
post some explanations here please. you have been silent for a while now.
Thinking about refund too.
August 10, 2013, 06:01:36 AM
that news don't really say a lot that customers will get a product to achieve ROI:
if you guarantee that your customers will achieve ROI (BTC ROI, not FIAT!) from batch 2/3 avalon clone than this is a good deal, else we have to hope that you will make us a good offer for nextgen hardware.
post some explanations here please. you have been silent for a while now.
Quote
Our current plan is to wait a couple of more weeks for Avalon to fulfill their obligations, but if there are further delays we will initiate the process of upgrading FOR FREE all of our orders to the next generation of bitcoin miners based on Bitfury’s 55nm chips
what means "further delay"? how long do we have to wait? chips are already delayed and ROI is totaly destroyed!if you guarantee that your customers will achieve ROI (BTC ROI, not FIAT!) from batch 2/3 avalon clone than this is a good deal, else we have to hope that you will make us a good offer for nextgen hardware.
post some explanations here please. you have been silent for a while now.
August 09, 2013, 10:58:45 PM
Next news: https://bitmine.ch/?p=746
August 09, 2013, 02:24:17 PM
Batch 2 clones cost more and there is no eta for the avalon chips, it will be even a longer wait.
August 09, 2013, 12:15:42 PM
So ... those are all avalon chips ...
I was thinking exactly the same
... so they have to give some shares for free for the buyers of Avalon 1st Gen Miners - the delay have to be compensated in some way.
If they will not accept refunds this would be a way.
August 09, 2013, 11:55:49 AM
So ... those are all avalon chips ...
August 09, 2013, 10:44:10 AM
August 09, 2013, 10:19:35 AM
asked mr. anselmi last sunday, no answer till now.
August 06, 2013, 04:38:01 PM
has anyone emailed them about batch 2 orders, cause definitely paid the most from all the batches
August 05, 2013, 10:19:53 PM
did some calculations:
lets take batch 2 without PSU but express shipping. that means 7039 USD. if you are not able to pick it up on your own and bring it across the border without paying VAT (illegal!) you have to pay the full amount to customs because bitmine will include an invoice showing the correct total. lets take 20% VAT for e.g. (lots of EU countries have more): 7039*1,2= 8447 USD -> PSU 250 USD = 8697 USD.
batch 2 will arrive early september if there are no further delays from avalon: diff. will be at least 60 mio.
calculation done with overclocked unit with 110 GH/s.
I'm sure the diff. will increase about 45 %/month (~15% each cycle) for the next few month.
http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=60000000&dcosts=8697&diff_mincrease=45&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=110000&btcusd_mincrease=0&btcusd=90&dpowcon=1000&dleadtime=0&pcost=0.30&calcweeks=52&action=calc
reaching break even: NEVER
-> asked them for refund or discount offer to all batch 2/3 customers.
+1 , anyone from batch 2 asked them for refund lets take batch 2 without PSU but express shipping. that means 7039 USD. if you are not able to pick it up on your own and bring it across the border without paying VAT (illegal!) you have to pay the full amount to customs because bitmine will include an invoice showing the correct total. lets take 20% VAT for e.g. (lots of EU countries have more): 7039*1,2= 8447 USD -> PSU 250 USD = 8697 USD.
batch 2 will arrive early september if there are no further delays from avalon: diff. will be at least 60 mio.
calculation done with overclocked unit with 110 GH/s.
I'm sure the diff. will increase about 45 %/month (~15% each cycle) for the next few month.
http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=60000000&dcosts=8697&diff_mincrease=45&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=110000&btcusd_mincrease=0&btcusd=90&dpowcon=1000&dleadtime=0&pcost=0.30&calcweeks=52&action=calc
reaching break even: NEVER
-> asked them for refund or discount offer to all batch 2/3 customers.
August 04, 2013, 08:33:52 AM
did some calculations:
lets take batch 2 without PSU but express shipping. that means 7039 USD. if you are not able to pick it up on your own and bring it across the border without paying VAT (illegal!) you have to pay the full amount to customs because bitmine will include an invoice showing the correct total. lets take 20% VAT for e.g. (lots of EU countries have more): 7039*1,2= 8447 USD -> PSU 250 USD = 8697 USD.
batch 2 will arrive early september if there are no further delays from avalon: diff. will be at least 60 mio.
calculation done with overclocked unit with 110 GH/s.
I'm sure the diff. will increase about 45 %/month (~15% each cycle) for the next few month.
http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=60000000&dcosts=8697&diff_mincrease=45&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=110000&btcusd_mincrease=0&btcusd=90&dpowcon=1000&dleadtime=0&pcost=0.30&calcweeks=52&action=calc
reaching break even: NEVER
-> asked them for refund or discount offer to all batch 2/3 customers.
lets take batch 2 without PSU but express shipping. that means 7039 USD. if you are not able to pick it up on your own and bring it across the border without paying VAT (illegal!) you have to pay the full amount to customs because bitmine will include an invoice showing the correct total. lets take 20% VAT for e.g. (lots of EU countries have more): 7039*1,2= 8447 USD -> PSU 250 USD = 8697 USD.
batch 2 will arrive early september if there are no further delays from avalon: diff. will be at least 60 mio.
calculation done with overclocked unit with 110 GH/s.
I'm sure the diff. will increase about 45 %/month (~15% each cycle) for the next few month.
http://btcinvest.net/bitcoin-mining-profit-calculator.php?diff=60000000&dcosts=8697&diff_mincrease=45&blpbtc=25&dhsmhs=110000&btcusd_mincrease=0&btcusd=90&dpowcon=1000&dleadtime=0&pcost=0.30&calcweeks=52&action=calc
reaching break even: NEVER
-> asked them for refund or discount offer to all batch 2/3 customers.
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