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Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 169. (Read 723861 times)

legendary
Activity: 2126
Merit: 1001
Swap-bot seems like the real killer here. Making it easy and automatic to jettison a high-rate swap just as soon as a lower offer comes along seems like a recipe for a race to the bottom, as well as making it difficult for manually set offers to compete with automated offers if it reduces the average duration of a swap.
Maybe I've just gotten too used to being a well-fed parasite, but it seems like the possibility of making good returns partly relies on those traders who don't care to manually manage their swaps in search of the best rate, and leave swaps open for days at a time at a slightly elevated rate. If every swap only lasts as long as it takes for a lower offer to appear... I fear I'm just going to see all my cash sat idle more often than not[/li][/list]

Yes, that's the big question indeed.
Honestly, as a borrower, I don't feel too excited about this. This sounds more like "bots automatically snatch away all good swap offers I normally would take manually". ;-)
The truth probably lays in the middle, where the market becomes more mature and efficient, and both sides use bots. So maybe there will be a more stable middle, where all demands meet, without crazy swings in the rates (which noone likes?), and everybody is happy? That's the theory of all those anarchists and free-market-fans, right? :-P

Ente
full member
Activity: 136
Merit: 100
In an ongoing effort to provide our customers with the best possible trading experience ...

So I'm trying to figure out how to expect these upcoming changes to affect the going rate for USD swaps. As a 'lender' I'm not getting an overall-positive feeling from it all (sounds like it'll reduce demand, lead to lower rates, which for reasons of pure self-interest is detrimental to me). But I'm not sure how much of an effect to expect.

Would appreciate any corrections/additions to my logic...

  • Self funding: would reduce demand for swaps by the amount of swap currently taken to cover positions backed by collateral in the 'correct' currency... which, may not be too terribly many - going long on BTC, on margin, with a wallet full of USD seems like an unusual move since you could get the same exposure with no swap cost just by using your own funds. To my understanding, borrowed leverage is useful specifically because it allows you to continue buying/selling past the point where your own funds are exhausted.
    But it is kind of a hassle with all the wallet-juggling to convert your funds back and forward in sync with your positions so maybe there are more people than I expect who are taking out swaps instead of using the currency they already have.
  • Daily Settlement doesn't seem to affect swap providers much at all - the schedule for payments are unchanged, and while the 'term' option might create some fresh demand for swaps each day, the quantity probably isn't huge if the default will be 'daily'.
    If 'term' became very popular it might cause a daily synchronised spike in demand, but that may just match the daily synchronised spike in supply from auto-lenders receiving and offering out their daily swap payment.
  • Real-time autorenew is quite welcome - it's always been somewhat frustrating to see <$100 amounts sit idle with auto-renew set but not activating for 15 minutes, and having no other option to get it moving. Can't see it affecting rates in any systemic way
  • Swap-bot seems like the real killer here. Making it easy and automatic to jettison a high-rate swap just as soon as a lower offer comes along seems like a recipe for a race to the bottom, as well as making it difficult for manually set offers to compete with automated offers if it reduces the average duration of a swap.
    Maybe I've just gotten too used to being a well-fed parasite, but it seems like the possibility of making good returns partly relies on those traders who don't care to manually manage their swaps in search of the best rate, and leave swaps open for days at a time at a slightly elevated rate. If every swap only lasts as long as it takes for a lower offer to appear... I fear I'm just going to see all my cash sat idle more often than not

member
Activity: 69
Merit: 10
ASICMINER shares: Havelockinvestments.com
Anyone know of a site logging the interest rate raw data and BTC swapping on bitfinex ?

Thanks

Mig
http://bfxdata.com
sr. member
Activity: 324
Merit: 250
Anyone know of a site logging the interest rate raw data and BTC swapping on bitfinex ?

Thanks

Mig
legendary
Activity: 2126
Merit: 1001
Right. Then why, up til now, was it required to borrow for every dollar in your (trading) position?

..when going long, i.e. buying bitcoins from borrowed USD, you mean?
Well, until now, whenever you open a position, you lend the necessary funds (USD or BTC).
Even if you still had exactly the currency you need in another wallet.

That didn't make sense. The users' actions, that is. Bitfinex did all fine, and now changes some things so users may buy bitcoins with borrowed USD, when they have USD of their own, and now won't have to pay interest for those "borrowed" USD.

Honestly, that whole topic leaves me wondering what the heck people are actually doing in their bitfinex accounts..

Ente
member
Activity: 88
Merit: 10
Can someone help me understand the "Self Funding" swap changes in the recent announcement?
https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements/?id=21

1) Do other margin platforms require the entire position (leveraged or not) to use swaps? Meaning, is this change on par with what other platforms do, or is this a radical change in the way margin trading is done?

2) Does this change mean that if a trader has a $10k balance, and position size is $20k, they only need to borrow a total of a $10k swap?  I understand it that if this trader has a position less than $10k, they would be using no swaps.  What's a little unclear to me is, if this trader then increases their position to $20k, would the full $20k need to be borrowed in swaps, since they are now using leverage?

3) Do you think this change is going to be retroactive to currently opened positions, or is it only for new positions opened after the 21st?

Thanks for your input.

1) I understand it like that too. Have $10k balance, don't need to borrow actual funds to open a position with $10k. It wouldn't make sense to suddenly need to borrow $11k when your position grows to $11k.

Also, why should someone have $10k on the platform, and borrow others USD to go long? Everyone would buy with his own funds first, and then might decide to take those bought BTC as collateral for a real position?

Ente
Right. Then why, up til now, was it required to borrow for every dollar in your (trading) position?

I'm still not sure whether other margin platforms (BTC exchanges or otherwise), require traders to swap for each dollar, or just for leverage.
newbie
Activity: 13
Merit: 0
BitVC - Huobi's new platform - has swaps at a minimum interest rate of 0.1% and a maximum of 1%.  Looks like this is only for CNY/BTC/LTC - in which case it is a very high rate for BTC and LTC, and a reasonable rate for CNY.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitvc-a-new-trading-platform-from-huobi-662221

Does anyone have more details?

It'd be interesting to know if their swap rate tracks the Bitfinex USD rate.

Thanks for giving BitVC a try. I still have several invitation codes left, so if anyone is interested please send me a private message.
legendary
Activity: 2126
Merit: 1001
Can someone help me understand the "Self Funding" swap changes in the recent announcement?
https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements/?id=21

1) Do other margin platforms require the entire position (leveraged or not) to use swaps? Meaning, is this change on par with what other platforms do, or is this a radical change in the way margin trading is done?

2) Does this change mean that if a trader has a $10k balance, and position size is $20k, they only need to borrow a total of a $10k swap?  I understand it that if this trader has a position less than $10k, they would be using no swaps.  What's a little unclear to me is, if this trader then increases their position to $20k, would the full $20k need to be borrowed in swaps, since they are now using leverage?

3) Do you think this change is going to be retroactive to currently opened positions, or is it only for new positions opened after the 21st?

Thanks for your input.

1) I understand it like that too. Have $10k balance, don't need to borrow actual funds to open a position with $10k. It wouldn't make sense to suddenly need to borrow $11k when your position grows to $11k.

Also, why should someone have $10k on the platform, and borrow others USD to go long? Everyone would buy with his own funds first, and then might decide to take those bought BTC as collateral for a real position?

Ente
newbie
Activity: 19
Merit: 0
@admins

While I appreciate you posting on the forum when there is a major announcement added to https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements, I think you should also send out an email to all Bitfinex.com users when there are major announcements.

I believe you sent an email a while back, perhaps it was about the heartbleed bug.

I don't think every user Bitfinex subscribes to this thread to get updates about announcements, and they must monitor https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements themselves.  I believe every announcement on https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements is worthy of sending a mass email to all users.  Every user should know about these important changes, whether or not they follow on the forum, or have a monitor on https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements.

I am subscribed to this thread, but still miss important announcements, since not all announcements put on https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements are mirrored here.

Every user should be notified of any changes.  It is very important for every user to know any and all changes. Thank you.



+1  Cool
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1001
CEO Bitpanda.com
Hello, I'm new to using Bitfinex and saw that it trades DarkCoin, DRK.  Can i use Margin to trade DRK???  or is that just for BTC and LTC??

Thanks

Leverage for DRK is not yet available!
member
Activity: 296
Merit: 10
Hello, I'm new to using Bitfinex and saw that it trades DarkCoin, DRK.  Can i use Margin to trade DRK???  or is that just for BTC and LTC??

Thanks
legendary
Activity: 2126
Merit: 1001
@admins

While I appreciate you posting on the forum when there is a major announcement added to https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements, I think you should also send out an email to all Bitfinex.com users when there are major announcements.

I would suggest an "announcement box" or popup when a user is logged in.
Mail would be better than now, at least.

Ente
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Just fixed the script, enjoy new data, thanks to everybody for invaluable help.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
WAIT



Oh, you gotta be kidding me.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
OK, cool. are you still collecting? what was the first date you collected it?
so no old data is available (starting 2013?)
Sorry, all I have you can see on this chart.
I'm not collecting it anymore, because bitfinex doesn't provide this information at all.
That's a shame. I hoped to make some conclusions about BSI. :(
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
hi do you have a thread with full data from the sentiment index?
I'm sorry, what "thread"? I used to get BSI here with this script. All the data I collected is stored here.

OK, cool. are you still collecting? what was the first date you collected it?
so no old data is available (starting 2013?)
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
hi do you have a thread with full data from the sentiment index?
I'm sorry, what "thread"? I used to get BSI here with this script. All the data I collected is stored here.
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
Why did you stopped to calculate Bitfinex Sentiment Index? Am I the only man who find it useful?

кaк вывecти 1.08 лaйтa c этoгo кeтaйcкoгo финикa мoзг ceбe cпaлил yжo)
Withdraw нe paбoтaeт, чтo ли?

hi do you have a thread with full data from the sentiment index?
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 1064
Bitcoin is antisemitic
@admins

While I appreciate you posting on the forum when there is a major announcement added to https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements, I think you should also send out an email to all Bitfinex.com users when there are major announcements.

+1. I approve this motion.

P.S. did they stop giving referral links?
i asked one to the support and they did not even answer.
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