Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 171. (Read 723903 times)

BitVC - Huobi's new platform - has swaps at a minimum interest rate of 0.1% and a maximum of 1%.  Looks like this is only for CNY/BTC/LTC - in which case it is a very high rate for BTC and LTC, and a reasonable rate for CNY.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitvc-a-new-trading-platform-from-huobi-662221

Does anyone have more details?

It'd be interesting to know if their swap rate tracks the Bitfinex USD rate.

I think what you're describing happened to me the other day. I deposited some LTC to my account, but it deposited directly into my trading account. I had a position open and I wasn't able to move the LTC until I closed the position.

Also, check and see if you have auto-renew open.

Looks like it will, they ignore all this question. I would also like to get an answer on this.

On the face of it, this seems to be quite a blow to USD lenders.  It can potentially cut the demand for loans in half to provide supposed reduced risk to lenders.  I thought the 50% fee increase was to pay for the reduced risk.  You are now also going to providing tools for borrowers to automatically refinance with lower rates ( I know traders could already do this but at least they had to put some effort into it).  So, if I loan out $5,000 at 0.15% for 10 days, and a lender then offers the same terms but at 0.1499%, my loan will be dropped and replaced.

No longer are lenders going to need to try and beat the best rate in the current book, they just have to beat *any* rate of any current loan in existence.  This is going to drive lending rates down to prime in no time.

I do not see how this will help lenders.  I think what is more likely to happen is the rate will go down so low that the lenders manage their own risk by simply pulling their money and going elsewhere.  The only way this will not happen is if the rate is artificially given a floor.

Right now, we have $2.5M of about $30M waiting to be borrowed.  What is going to happen when $15M of that can be self-funded and we have $18M looking to be borrowed?  This almost looks like an effort to drive lenders out of BITFINEX.



In addition, something is not right about the FRR.  In the past 24 hours, 65% of the loans taken have been below the FRR (80% in the last hour) but the FRR has barely budged.  Why?  In the past the FRR dropped rather rapidly when fixed rates dropped and risen slowly as rate rise.  Is this an attempt to provide a rate floor?



What is confusing me the most right now is that this seems to be a knee jerk reaction to some users posting doomsday scenarios on reddit.  Scenarios that seem to be written to scare new investors away and drive rates down.  What are the chances that they are playing the BITFINEX team at the expense of the lenders?

i dont quite get it, i always took long positions only with btc in my wallet, but no $, so whats the difference now? imo your leverage gets bigger only if logn positions go down or short positions up.

Can anybody help out?

I transferred in some BTC to my bitfinex account.

The BTC are showing correctly under the Your Balance deposit tab.

 But when I try to transfer fromy my deposit wallet to my exchange wallet, the BTC deposit wallet balance is showing as zero and I get an Insufficient Funds message.

 It's not confirmations (the transfer in was hours ago) and I don't have any open positions or orders.   

How can I simultaneously have a positive and a zero BTC wallet deposit balance?

Anybody know what the problem is?

Many thanks....

I second this. Can you at least maintain the total accumulated swap cost visible in the same place it is now, just for reference ?

That's why I love Bitfinex!
Always very cautionous and playing it conservative and safe, and yet adding new helpful features all the time! :-)

I am a trader, and still am happy to hear the leverage is reduced, rather than enlargened. This means a bit less (chance for) profit for all sides, but reduces the risk so much!
I don't think Bitcoin will be in calm waters anytime soon. With 80% drops *regularly*, I can only applaud this decision.

Swap-bot? Now, that sounds interesting indeed!
I'm curious how this will work out practically. As, for example, a new swap offer would be desireable for a lot of "bots" at the same time..

Cheers, Raphael, Giancarlo and the whole Bitfinex team!

Ente

I understand your position and also the general wish of traders for more leverage at least as an option. I think it is certainly a possibility but not with bitfinex model of insured swaps and socializing of potential losses. They could certainly establish a certain where lenders have more control over the counterparty of their swap with choosing a certain amount of max leverage/whether it's for ltc or btc etc.
The problem is as you see from having different periods that this would transform the already clunky 2-dimensional swap market to a 3 or 4 dimensional market with very spread out liquidity and potential technical problems.
As somebody who is mainly providing swaps and has expressed concern multiple times in the past over the large amount of swaps I am quite satisfied with BFXs announced changes. If you want more leverage you should of course consider some other possiblity. I personally would never put any money on okcoin and huobi simply for their history/language barrier and unclear chinese regulation. I already consider BFX a very high risk investment.

You can't be serious! What you're implicitly saying is that the BFX team wasn't smart enough to notice this earlier!? I think they are doing a very good job and they're fully capable of understanding the consequences of previously allowing this. I assume they know why they're taking this decision now (and that they were fully aware of the previous leverage), which still doesn't mean I like it for my trading profile.


I don't want insane leverage, especially not on a platform with that large a spread. But with a proper risk management you can safely handle the bfx leverage as it currently is, and even the 4:1 they used to have (even in parts of the November bubble bull run, believe it or not!), if you tread cautiously. It isn't my fault that some traders don't practice a proper risk management and don't stop bad trades early. I understand that BFX wants/has to play safe, but I personally would prefer more leverage.

I'm very happy to see that the Bitfinex Team is still working so intensively on the platform and it's possibilities.
From reading through these changes as a swap provider I'm going to assume that they will decrease the lending rates in the long term, but and this far important in my opinion they also have the potential to take off some of the huge leverage the platform is already on. Keeping the system stable and crash free is of the highest priority even if it hinders additional short term gains. Good Job, BFX. I now understand why you may not have had the time to answers questions in the last three days here.

You should realize that by using BTC as a collateral for a long position you effectively had more leverage than intended and that using the volatile part of a very volatile trading pair assumes additional risk not only to you but to the whole market in case of a sudden drop. If you want to get into insane leverage you should check btc.sx. They offer 10 X leverage and from what I have read so far are guarranted to rip you off through large gaps, unfair stops and high slippage.

Why did you stopped to calculate Bitfinex Sentiment Index? Am I the only man who find it useful?

Withdraw нe paбoтaeт, чтo ли?

Thank God for SWAP BOT!!!!! and other new features coming!  happy trading!!!!

кaк вывecти 1.08 лaйтa c этoгo кeтaйcкoгo финикa мoзг ceбe cпaлил yжo)

Hi Giancarlo,

Thanks for your reply. Even as a trader I agree that the safety of the lenders should be of highest concern.

It's just  disappointing for me as I've learned to be really cautious and get into leveraged positions slowly and with tight stops as to keep my potential losses very low.

I generally like your platform and I really appreciate the way you're trying to implement feature suggestions by users and show that you care... And you've improved a lot in the last year at communicating technical changes/maintenance clearly and in time. But this is the point for me to take a new look at what other exchanges have to offer...

Just a side note:
Existing positions will not be touched/forced liquidated
It only impacts your tradable balance, not your liquidation price.

Raphael

We might increase leverage in the future if we see our swap market is cooling off a little.
For the time being we believe it's a good idea, for the sake of traders, liquidity providers and the bitcoin market to slow down a little the growth of our swap total market.

I hope this helps.

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

So that means, among many changes that make sense to me, you're further reducing the effective leverage for going long by 1? So, in the "old" way of counting leverage down from 2.5:1 to 1.5:1? That sucks...

Hello guys,

To answer some questions:

-You can already chose your swap type, daily or term, on your active positions. But the change will be active only after the 21st of July. We offer you this option now in order for long term position holders to make sure to set their preferences before the change is active


-Regarding the "term" option: yes we are compounding interests payment. WHich is why the default option is "daily", and which is why if you plan on holding a long term position be carefully with this. I hope you understand the reasoning here: paying lenders at the end of their swaps but charging traders at the term of their position meant we were lending money at 0%. Which poses legal problems, and increased our risk by using our capital for what it was not supposed to be used.



We will still borrow additional swap to match your unrealized swap, no matter your tradable balance.

One last change that is upcoming on the 21st of July as well:

Leverage calculation: The currency that is used as collateral for your open position(s) does impact your risk of default in case of a forced liquidation. If you have 3 BTC and take a 6 BTC position, your true leverage, regarding exposure to BTCUSD price, is 3:1, not 2:1. We thus will include the collateral that is not in the last currency of a traded pair as part of the position cost (ie all non-USD collateral for BTCUSD and LTCUSD positions, and all non-BTC collateral for LTCBTC positions).

Your tradable balance is equal to:

( Your leverage * your margin balance (in USD) + your unrealized profit + your unrealized swap) - your position(s) cost (in USD)

Today, your position cost is equal to:

( your position base price * your position size )

After this change, your position cost will be equal to:

(your position base price * your position size + ((your position base price * your position size in USD) - your USD trading balance)
Ok, what does it means in simple term:

1st example

Current BTC price is 600 USD/BTC, and you have a leverage of 2.5:1

If you have 1 BTC, you can open a 1.5 max long or short BTCUSD position
If you have 600 USD, you can open a 2.5 max long or short BTCUSD position

Each dollar you add in your trading wallet will allow you to increase your tradable balance

2nd example

Current LTC price is 0.02 BTC/LTC, and you have a leverage of 2.5:1

If you have 1 LTC, you can open a 1.5 max long or short LTCBTC position
If you have 0.02 BTC, you can open a 2.5 max long or short LTCBTC position

Each bitcoin you add in your trading wallet will allow you to increase your tradable balance

Edit: Existing positions will not be touched/forced liquidated
It only impacts your tradable balance, not your liquidation price.

Let me know if you have any questions
Raphael
Bitfinex team