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Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 283. (Read 723903 times)
January 29, 2014, 10:44:27 AM
January 29, 2014, 10:39:27 AM
Market Orders are not processing! Is the system down??
January 29, 2014, 12:00:15 AM
Let's see if by re-phrasing I can make this clear in a definitive way:
1 ) Bitfinex ltd is incorporated in Hong Kong.
2 ) Hong Kong is not China.
3 ) Bitfinex operates with an off-shore account in Pudong.
4 ) This can be extrapolated also by the account number, which begins with OSA ( in case somebody still don't see the point, OSA stands for Off Shore Account)
5 ) Our offshore account is denominated in USD and has nothing to do with CNY ( a.k.a. Yuan, a.k.a. Renminbi, that is the Chinese currency) to whom the restrictions apply.
6 ) China wants to limit the outflow of capital, not a company incorporated in Hong Kong that stays away from its currency.
7 ) BTC-China = CNY --> Problem
8 ) Bitfinex = USD --> No Problem
Bitfinex already change wire deposit account from China Off Shore Account to China Construction Bank Account located at Hong Kong.
Good news for those who feel little doubt about deposit in Bitfinex.
Great! I can wire funds locally (instead of charging international wire fees)
As a Hong Kong people, the above 8 points are correct. But Hong Kong is definitely part of China. However, Hong Kong is special region which has TOTALLY different laws and regulations from China (at least before year 2047).
January 28, 2014, 08:54:25 PM
Let's see if by re-phrasing I can make this clear in a definitive way:
1 ) Bitfinex ltd is incorporated in Hong Kong.
2 ) Hong Kong is not China.
3 ) Bitfinex operates with an off-shore account in Pudong.
4 ) This can be extrapolated also by the account number, which begins with OSA ( in case somebody still don't see the point, OSA stands for Off Shore Account)
5 ) Our offshore account is denominated in USD and has nothing to do with CNY ( a.k.a. Yuan, a.k.a. Renminbi, that is the Chinese currency) to whom the restrictions apply.
6 ) China wants to limit the outflow of capital, not a company incorporated in Hong Kong that stays away from its currency.
7 ) BTC-China = CNY --> Problem
8 ) Bitfinex = USD --> No Problem
Bitfinex already change wire deposit account from China Off Shore Account to China Construction Bank Account located at Hong Kong.
Good news for those who feel little doubt about deposit in Bitfinex.
January 28, 2014, 03:56:37 PM
Silly question here.. but I noted the swap rates for USD is quite high, 0.28% a day? Isn't that possible to make a lot of money in a year from just offering USD?
People using BitFinex can choose between buying Bitcoins and offering USD. So the "liquidity providing rates" naturally are somewhere in the area of historic and/or expected Bitcoin exchange rate grows minus the exchange rate risk.
That's why the rates are ridiculously high compared to regular, old stuff from the offline world.
So yes, please provide dollars. You'll receive mindboggling rates, compared to anything non-Bitcoin-related. And tell all your friends too! :-)
Ente
(Who is one of the guys who pays those incredible rates)
It's quite tempting to want to move a large sum of my liquidity into the exchange but it also seems extremely risky thing to simply leave it there for the long haul..
Edit: Related reddit thread
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/1vofkw/risks_associated_with_moving_a_large_amount_of/
Heh, funny thread on /r/.
I feel reasonably safe that BitFinex doesn't plan any evil things, and have a good technical security.
As a general sane rule, I only have a part of my holdings on any website.
You could, for example, transfer 10% of your "speculate money" to BitFinex, to provide liquidity. Remove the resulting interest daily, or wait until your funds doubled or something similar.
Or calculate something on the line of "I invest x% of my funds, it takes y days for it to double, my funds are a% of the total money on BitFinex and they exist since b years". All data is public. Simply calculate your personal risk treshold. Or maybe you will calculate that it's not worth the risk - Bitcoin in itself if risky and rewarding enough already ;-)
Ente
January 28, 2014, 04:39:11 AM
BTW, if I may make sugestment to your business. Make sure to invest in a good staff for customer support! Security and customer support are (in my opinion) the most important parts of a business.
If for example I make a support ticket and wait many hours to days for an response, I will be reluctant to use the service. While when the customer gets a fast and friendly reply within an hour, he will grow trust in your business and will most likely stay with you.
Unfortunately customer service is a weak point at many big exchanges, but I think if you make customer support to one of you priority's (after security), I am sure that you will grow to one of the biges exchanges in the market.
+1, Totally agree with this point.
January 28, 2014, 03:26:53 AM
Thanks for clearing things up
BTW, if I may make sugestment to your business. Make sure to invest in a good staff for customer support! Security and customer support are (in my opinion) the most important parts of a business.
If for example I make a support ticket and wait many hours to days for an response, I will be reluctant to use the service. While when the customer gets a fast and friendly reply within an hour, he will grow trust in your business and will most likely stay with you.
Unfortunately customer service is a weak point at many big exchanges, but I think if you make customer support to one of you priority's (after security), I am sure that you will grow to one of the biges exchanges in the market.
+1, that's one of the reasons why I don't invest more.
January 28, 2014, 02:49:04 AM
Hi every one!
I am currently looking to get my money out of Mtgox and was looking at bitfinex for that purpose.
How trust worthy do you guys think is bitfinex? Are there any information available about them, is it just a one man operation or do they have employees/support agents, etz. ?
If you could let me know your opinion and experience, I would greatly appreciate it.
I am currently looking to get my money out of Mtgox and was looking at bitfinex for that purpose.
How trust worthy do you guys think is bitfinex? Are there any information available about them, is it just a one man operation or do they have employees/support agents, etz. ?
If you could let me know your opinion and experience, I would greatly appreciate it.
I think bitfinex is quite comparable to other btc exchanges like GOX and stamp. they are in the pu dong free trade district. they might be lacking in support vs stamp.
Their site is a bit behind i think, though i don't know much about computers. But stamp and gox messes up all the time too.
January 27, 2014, 09:37:25 PM
Some pages ago the BitFinex guys wrote they have no bankaccounts, company registration or anything else in China. From that, they are not affected by chinese regulations or new year whatsoever.
....
Ente
This is not accurate. If you look back to the post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4007805 , Raphael clearly states that the deposit bank account is in Pudong (which is the financial district in Shanghai). BTC China ALSO is HQ'd in Pudong, so I don't understand why Raphael thinks he is exempt while BTC China is not???
tldr - do not deposit in Bitfinex until this is cleared up.
Let's see if by re-phrasing I can make this clear in a definitive way:
1 ) Bitfinex ltd is incorporated in Hong Kong.
2 ) Hong Kong is not China.
3 ) Bitfinex operates with an off-shore account in Pudong.
4 ) This can be extrapolated also by the account number, which begins with OSA ( in case somebody still don't see the point, OSA stands for Off Shore Account)
5 ) Our offshore account is denominated in USD and has nothing to do with CNY ( a.k.a. Yuan, a.k.a. Renminbi, that is the Chinese currency) to whom the restrictions apply.
6 ) China wants to limit the outflow of capital, not a company incorporated in Hong Kong that stays away from its currency.
7 ) BTC-China = CNY --> Problem
8 ) Bitfinex = USD --> No Problem
I hope it's all clear now.
In case it isn't, well.....
Have a good day
Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team
Giancarlo, thank you for responding. Do you have confirmation from your bank that you will not be impacted by these regulations (which don't mention an exemption for offshore accounts in China)?
I appreciate this is *your* interpretation of the regulatory impact - I just want to make sure the Chinese authorities agree with your assessment.
BTW - I say this as I also happen to work in Compliance on Wall St, and I know that my interpretation often does not coincide with that of the SEC/FINRA/etc...
January 27, 2014, 09:13:55 PM
Silly question here.. but I noted the swap rates for USD is quite high, 0.28% a day? Isn't that possible to make a lot of money in a year from just offering USD?
People using BitFinex can choose between buying Bitcoins and offering USD. So the "liquidity providing rates" naturally are somewhere in the area of historic and/or expected Bitcoin exchange rate grows minus the exchange rate risk.
That's why the rates are ridiculously high compared to regular, old stuff from the offline world.
So yes, please provide dollars. You'll receive mindboggling rates, compared to anything non-Bitcoin-related. And tell all your friends too! :-)
Ente
(Who is one of the guys who pays those incredible rates)
It's quite tempting to want to move a large sum of my liquidity into the exchange but it also seems extremely risky thing to simply leave it there for the long haul..
Edit: Related reddit thread
http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/1vofkw/risks_associated_with_moving_a_large_amount_of/
January 27, 2014, 08:09:45 PM
Some pages ago the BitFinex guys wrote they have no bankaccounts, company registration or anything else in China. From that, they are not affected by chinese regulations or new year whatsoever.
....
Ente
This is not accurate. If you look back to the post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4007805 , Raphael clearly states that the deposit bank account is in Pudong (which is the financial district in Shanghai). BTC China ALSO is HQ'd in Pudong, so I don't understand why Raphael thinks he is exempt while BTC China is not???
tldr - do not deposit in Bitfinex until this is cleared up.
Let's see if by re-phrasing I can make this clear in a definitive way:
1 ) Bitfinex ltd is incorporated in Hong Kong.
2 ) Hong Kong is not China.
3 ) Bitfinex operates with an off-shore account in Pudong.
4 ) This can be extrapolated also by the account number, which begins with OSA ( in case somebody still don't see the point, OSA stands for Off Shore Account)
5 ) Our offshore account is denominated in USD and has nothing to do with CNY ( a.k.a. Yuan, a.k.a. Renminbi, that is the Chinese currency) to whom the restrictions apply.
6 ) China wants to limit the outflow of capital, not a company incorporated in Hong Kong that stays away from its currency.
7 ) BTC-China = CNY --> Problem
8 ) Bitfinex = USD --> No Problem
I hope it's all clear now.
In case it isn't, well.....
Have a good day
Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team
Thanks for clearing things up
BTW, if I may make sugestment to your business. Make sure to invest in a good staff for customer support! Security and customer support are (in my opinion) the most important parts of a business.
If for example I make a support ticket and wait many hours to days for an response, I will be reluctant to use the service. While when the customer gets a fast and friendly reply within an hour, he will grow trust in your business and will most likely stay with you.
Unfortunately customer service is a weak point at many big exchanges, but I think if you make customer support to one of you priority's (after security), I am sure that you will grow to one of the biges exchanges in the market.
January 27, 2014, 07:20:21 PM
Some pages ago the BitFinex guys wrote they have no bankaccounts, company registration or anything else in China. From that, they are not affected by chinese regulations or new year whatsoever.
....
Ente
This is not accurate. If you look back to the post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4007805 , Raphael clearly states that the deposit bank account is in Pudong (which is the financial district in Shanghai). BTC China ALSO is HQ'd in Pudong, so I don't understand why Raphael thinks he is exempt while BTC China is not???
tldr - do not deposit in Bitfinex until this is cleared up.
Let's see if by re-phrasing I can make this clear in a definitive way:
1 ) Bitfinex ltd is incorporated in Hong Kong.
2 ) Hong Kong is not China.
3 ) Bitfinex operates with an off-shore account in Pudong.
4 ) This can be extrapolated also by the account number, which begins with OSA ( in case somebody still don't see the point, OSA stands for Off Shore Account)
5 ) Our offshore account is denominated in USD and has nothing to do with CNY ( a.k.a. Yuan, a.k.a. Renminbi, that is the Chinese currency) to whom the restrictions apply.
6 ) China wants to limit the outflow of capital, not a company incorporated in Hong Kong that stays away from its currency.
7 ) BTC-China = CNY --> Problem
8 ) Bitfinex = USD --> No Problem
I hope it's all clear now.
In case it isn't, well.....
Have a good day
Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team
January 27, 2014, 06:59:22 PM
It is only low if you look at a short time frame. It's slightly higher than it was 6 months ago.
The most paradoxical finding for me is if the risk of lending is so high, then why the BTC rates are so low. I think the market is acting illogically (ex. the people who think bitcoin will always go up 50-100%/year) and/or there is an information gap. There is definitely an expectations gap.
Nice website btw!
Actually it is quite low at the moment...
This is a chart displaying the Lowest USD liquidity offer over time for the last month. Rates tend to get much higher...
The most paradoxical finding for me is if the risk of lending is so high, then why the BTC rates are so low. I think the market is acting illogically (ex. the people who think bitcoin will always go up 50-100%/year) and/or there is an information gap. There is definitely an expectations gap.
Nice website btw!
Silly question here.. but I noted the swap rates for USD is quite high, 0.28% a day? Isn't that possible to make a lot of money in a year from just offering USD?
Actually it is quite low at the moment...
This is a chart displaying the Lowest USD liquidity offer over time for the last month. Rates tend to get much higher...
January 27, 2014, 06:44:00 PM
This is not accurate. If you look back to the post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4007805 , Raphael clearly states that the deposit bank account is in Pudong (which is the financial district in Shanghai). BTC China ALSO is HQ'd in Pudong, so I don't understand why Raphael thinks he is exempt while BTC China is not???
tldr - do not deposit in Bitfinex until this is cleared up.
Did you consider reading the post you linked to? It answers your question. They are unaffected by Chinese regulations.
January 27, 2014, 06:43:39 PM
Some pages ago the BitFinex guys wrote they have no bankaccounts, company registration or anything else in China. From that, they are not affected by chinese regulations or new year whatsoever.
....
Ente
This is not accurate. If you look back to the post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4007805 , Raphael clearly states that the deposit bank account is in Pudong (which is the financial district in Shanghai). BTC China ALSO is HQ'd in Pudong, so I don't understand why Raphael thinks he is exempt while BTC China is not???
tldr - do not deposit in Bitfinex until this is cleared up.
Hmm.. Thanks for the correction.
I'm not much smarter now, though.
Ente
January 27, 2014, 04:30:07 PM
Feature Request: When I am looking at my open orders and I click on Price to sort - the damn page UNSORTS when it auto-updates. Infuriating, and half the time I cancel the wrong position when I hit cancel!
January 27, 2014, 04:17:04 PM
Some pages ago the BitFinex guys wrote they have no bankaccounts, company registration or anything else in China. From that, they are not affected by chinese regulations or new year whatsoever.
....
Ente
This is not accurate. If you look back to the post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.4007805 , Raphael clearly states that the deposit bank account is in Pudong (which is the financial district in Shanghai). BTC China ALSO is HQ'd in Pudong, so I don't understand why Raphael thinks he is exempt while BTC China is not???
tldr - do not deposit in Bitfinex until this is cleared up.
January 27, 2014, 04:00:51 PM
(Who is one of the guys who pays those incredible rates)
I'm quite sure they're leverage traders and they don't pay too much attention on the rate. They just see a trading opportunity worth much more than the current liquidity rate, so they take a leveraged position at the current rateHeh, actually I meant to say that I, myself, am one of those guys paying high rates.
And no, the opposite, having a large leverage unfortunately doesn't really help. I still pay x% per day for every dollar liquidity. Leverage only makes the risk/reward ratio more dramatic. If the exchange rate goes in the wrong direction, leverage doesn't help. You just get liquidated much quicker. On top of those liquidity rates :-)
Ente
January 27, 2014, 03:57:42 PM
Hi every one!
I am currently looking to get my money out of Mtgox and was looking at bitfinex for that purpose.
How trust worthy do you guys think is bitfinex? Are there any information available about them, is it just a one man operation or do they have employees/support agents, etz. ?
If you could let me know your opinion and experience, I would greatly appreciate it.
I am currently looking to get my money out of Mtgox and was looking at bitfinex for that purpose.
How trust worthy do you guys think is bitfinex? Are there any information available about them, is it just a one man operation or do they have employees/support agents, etz. ?
If you could let me know your opinion and experience, I would greatly appreciate it.
You might want to consider BitStamp. I enjoy Bitfinex, but it isn't clear if they are impacted by new Chinese regulations... Previous posts by the founders haven't made it clear what percentage of their bank funds are in Hong Kong vs Shanghai (Pudong).
Thank you for your opinion. Well unfortunately I am still not verified at bitstamp and am still in the process of doing so.
Unfortunately I send some BTC to them this morning from mtgox, thanks to some huge mtgox error my BTC never got on the blockchain and I am still not sure if I will ever see those BTC ever again...
But would be nice if the Bitfiex team could make a statement regarding the china issue.
Some pages ago the BitFinex guys wrote they have no bankaccounts, company registration or anything else in China. From that, they are not affected by chinese regulations or new year whatsoever.
I do business at BitFinex for, hmm, it feels like a year now.. I never had any problems with them (only had problems I created myself from being a beginner). When I had suggestions, questions or needed help, they have been fast and helpful.
From what I got to know of them, I trust them doing a longterm sane and sound business. Their security precautions both technically as well as policy wise is above average.
Yes, it's a good decision to leave MtGox. So many reasons for this.
In case you stick with BitFinex, there are some quite powerful options - both to make and lose money. Start smal, until you know what you are doing. :-)
Ente
January 27, 2014, 02:09:07 PM
Hi every one!
I am currently looking to get my money out of Mtgox and was looking at bitfinex for that purpose.
How trust worthy do you guys think is bitfinex? Are there any information available about them, is it just a one man operation or do they have employees/support agents, etz. ?
If you could let me know your opinion and experience, I would greatly appreciate it.
I am currently looking to get my money out of Mtgox and was looking at bitfinex for that purpose.
How trust worthy do you guys think is bitfinex? Are there any information available about them, is it just a one man operation or do they have employees/support agents, etz. ?
If you could let me know your opinion and experience, I would greatly appreciate it.
You might want to consider BitStamp. I enjoy Bitfinex, but it isn't clear if they are impacted by new Chinese regulations... Previous posts by the founders haven't made it clear what percentage of their bank funds are in Hong Kong vs Shanghai (Pudong).
Thank you for your opinion. Well unfortunately I am still not verified at bitstamp and am still in the process of doing so.
Unfortunately I send some BTC to them this morning from mtgox, thanks to some huge mtgox error my BTC never got on the blockchain and I am still not sure if I will ever see those BTC ever again...
But would be nice if the Bitfiex team could make a statement regarding the china issue.
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