[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 94.

noggin-scratcher

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Quote from: Sukrim on January 29, 2015, 08:16:47 AM

What if swap returns in any currency would be split in 2 parts (50/50, 80/20...?) - one part still going to the liquidity provider but the other part to all current holders of that currency, no matter if it is actually used or just passively waiting in orders?

I'm not sure that changes the incentives - you can't affect what the 'passive' payout is by your choices, so the individually optimal strategy would be the same as it is now. It'd be nice to get a passive payout, but I can't see it convincing people that they don't also want to chase the "scraps"; they'll always do better overall by doing so.

I suppose it could push the return from low-rate swaps lower still, and thereby make them not worth the time/hassle of bothering with, but the market has always looked like there's a lot of folks lending in a highly automated way, which isn't a lot of invested effort in the first place.

Sukrim

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Since someone again complained on reddit about low interest rates, I thought a bit and my guess is that they are partially so low because they only represent the percieved difference in risk between storing coins on Bitfinex and offering others to trade with these coins there.

What if swap returns in any currency would be split in 2 parts (50/50, 80/20...?) - one part still going to the liquidity provider but the other part to all current holders of that currency, no matter if it is actually used or just passively waiting in orders?

How would such a system change incentives to put good fixed rate orders instead of just fighting over scraps? While liquidity providers would earn less in the beginning, maybe rates would go up (traders with large positions would also get some daily swap returns after all) in the long run?

Anyone interested in calculating equilibria depending on risk assessments of holding a balance vs. offering it for trading?

nrd525

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Bitfinex is currently running a bit slow (page load times are 2-5 times slower than normal). Probably due to the high volume (around 10k in the past 20 minutes).

mjr

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Quote from: Ente on January 28, 2015, 09:16:33 AM

..so creating 100 identical 1 BTC OCO orders is the way to go?
Both "cancel only when the full sum is reached" and "cancel when the order is partially filled" is worse than that. Best would be a checkbox "partially", "full" and "corresponding sum" I'd say.

Ente

Yeah, I have no idea why I would want to set up an order that would dump 100 coins at all once...I don't think this would really help my bottom line, as I would probably push prices down much lower than if i I manually managed that position.

As I said in another post, there is a point where you are managing a position of a large enough size, and your requirements are complex enough that it makes sense to actually build a bot using the API (or hire someone to build a bot), that can be tailored to your exact needs.

mjr

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Quote from: Bagpipe on January 28, 2015, 02:04:19 PM

You DO owe me an apology.
Bitfinex representatives claim that isers have NO RIGHT to timely and accurate data. I'm okay with that fraud.
What I'm not okay with is you telling me to *fuck off* when I place an order. Why?
I cancel all the orders and try to do a market order and get "not enough balance" message?!
Okay, I reload the page and voila! Uncancelled orders remain!
So I cancel those as well, but you know what. Time has passed, market has moved. By the time I am able to make a move, you have cost me 10%.

Tell me again: why do I make volume on your site?

Technically, if you are that unhappy, and have such a negative opinion of us, YOU should explain why you make volume on our site.

Edit: Not because we don't want you to continue using us, but because I have no way of explaining your cost benefit analysis, and no knowledge of why you continue to make that choice.

mjr

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Things like stop losses and OCO are helpful, and can be useful, but they won't replace a full API bot...there is only so much logic that it pays to put into an order type, so, you might be approaching the limit of those order types usefulness, and might want to look into some sort of automated trading strategy if your needs are growing more complex. I understand your scenario, and it might be worthwhile to look into this, but that is really more like "cancel this other order, and place another order for a dynamic amount of bitcoin", because we don't really support updating an order at the moment (I think that might change soon).

So, I would say that there is no substitute for actually just monitoring the positions yourself, but, it can be a worthwhile tradeoff to sacrifice some those benefits for the convenience of not having to be there. One thing you could try would be to split up a big order like that into a bunch of smaller orders, where if they are linked correctly, you only have a small worry about partial fills.

Bagpipe

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You DO owe me an apology.
Bitfinex representatives claim that isers have NO RIGHT to timely and accurate data. I'm okay with that fraud.
What I'm not okay with is you telling me to *fuck off* when I place an order. Why?
I cancel all the orders and try to do a market order and get "not enough balance" message?!
Okay, I reload the page and voila! Uncancelled orders remain!
So I cancel those as well, but you know what. Time has passed, market has moved. By the time I am able to make a move, you have cost me 10%.

Tell me again: why do I make volume on your site?

Bagpipe

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Activity: 151

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Quote from: mjr on January 27, 2015, 02:44:06 PM

Quote from: Ente on January 25, 2015, 12:37:57 PM

Hey people!
I didn't read through the last 100 or so pages, but plan to stay updated from now on again :-)

- Since ages, the two balance overviews are mismatched: the overview in the top right corner is fine, the overview in "manage wallets" is wrong.

- I just found out that the "transfer funds" window is borked: it uses the "european" style separators, and interprets "1,000.00" as "1" and "1.000,00" as "1000". Every single place on BitFinex does display and interpret it the "US" style.

Those two combined took me a good while to figure out why the heck I can't transfer the sums I plan to.
Please fix this.

Ente

This has never happened to me...we will look into it.

When you are at it, discover why the "market" selection stops working aftyer a time and it starts placing LIMIT orders, will you? It is VERY VERY VERY annoying and damn bad!
Also, your policy on order filling, stop orders and such needs to be published.

P.S. I cancelled a market sell order 30 seconds after being PLACED, as I did not want to get a random result.

Ente

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..so creating 100 identical 1 BTC OCO orders is the way to go?
Both "cancel only when the full sum is reached" and "cancel when the order is partially filled" is worse than that. Best would be a checkbox "partially", "full" and "corresponding sum" I'd say.

Ente

noggin-scratcher

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Quote from: atlosas on January 28, 2015, 07:48:10 AM

That would be good. Now let;s say i want to sell 100 btc 300 and put stop loss at 280 to avoid margin call at 250. Now the market moves to 300 but only 1 bitcoin is sold. My stop order gets canceled. Market moves down and i get margin called. That is nonsense

To increase the nonsensicality, imagine placing 100 pairs of OCO orders for 1 coin each. Then the market moves to 300, 1 sell is executed, 1 stop is cancelled, the other 99 remain in place as desired. Normally orders of the same type combine, but not when "Cancel the Other" is an all-or-nothing action triggered by partial execution.

atlosas

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Quote from: picobit on January 27, 2015, 03:41:56 PM

Quote from: mjr on January 27, 2015, 02:43:07 PM

Quote from: atlosas on January 24, 2015, 07:34:09 AM

Why does OCO get's cancelled when the order is only partialy filled? IS that how it should work?

yes, anytime one order is "activated" it cancels the other orders. One cancels Others. So, it is a nice way to make sure you don't double down on buying or selling, if you want to have a stop loss AND a "take profit".

But that does not work if a partial fill cancels the whole other order. It is only reliable if a partial fill cancels the same part of the other order (assuming the two had the same size to begin with, which I guess is not guaranteed).

That would be good. Now let;s say i want to sell 100 btc 300 and put stop loss at 280 to avoid margin call at 250. Now the market moves to 300 but only 1 bitcoin is sold. My stop order gets canceled. Market moves down and i get margin called. That is nonsense

BitCoinNutJob

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Finex are too busy right now rolling in dollars from being the #1 non fake volume trading site.. just kidding im sure any probs will get sorted out.

Ente

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Quote from: mjr on January 27, 2015, 02:44:06 PM

Quote from: Ente on January 25, 2015, 12:37:57 PM

Hey people!
I didn't read through the last 100 or so pages, but plan to stay updated from now on again :-)

- Since ages, the two balance overviews are mismatched: the overview in the top right corner is fine, the overview in "manage wallets" is wrong.

- I just found out that the "transfer funds" window is borked: it uses the "european" style separators, and interprets "1,000.00" as "1" and "1.000,00" as "1000". Every single place on BitFinex does display and interpret it the "US" style.

Those two combined took me a good while to figure out why the heck I can't transfer the sums I plan to.
Please fix this.

Ente

This has never happened to me...we will look into it.

Let me know if I can be of help here.

Ente

picobit

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Decor in numeris

Quote from: mjr on January 27, 2015, 02:43:07 PM

Quote from: atlosas on January 24, 2015, 07:34:09 AM

Why does OCO get's cancelled when the order is only partialy filled? IS that how it should work?

yes, anytime one order is "activated" it cancels the other orders. One cancels Others. So, it is a nice way to make sure you don't double down on buying or selling, if you want to have a stop loss AND a "take profit".

But that does not work if a partial fill cancels the whole other order. It is only reliable if a partial fill cancels the same part of the other order (assuming the two had the same size to begin with, which I guess is not guaranteed).

mjr

full member

Activity: 194

Merit: 100

Quote from: Ente on January 25, 2015, 12:37:57 PM

Hey people!
I didn't read through the last 100 or so pages, but plan to stay updated from now on again :-)

- Since ages, the two balance overviews are mismatched: the overview in the top right corner is fine, the overview in "manage wallets" is wrong.

- I just found out that the "transfer funds" window is borked: it uses the "european" style separators, and interprets "1,000.00" as "1" and "1.000,00" as "1000". Every single place on BitFinex does display and interpret it the "US" style.

Those two combined took me a good while to figure out why the heck I can't transfer the sums I plan to.
Please fix this.

Ente

This has never happened to me...we will look into it.

mjr

full member

Activity: 194

Merit: 100

Quote from: atlosas on January 24, 2015, 07:34:09 AM

Why does OCO get's cancelled when the order is only partialy filled? IS that how it should work?

yes, anytime one order is "activated" it cancels the other orders. One cancels Others. So, it is a nice way to make sure you don't double down on buying or selling, if you want to have a stop loss AND a "take profit".

SebastianJu

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Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

Damn... this is going me on the nerves. Sometimes the price spread is something like 265.78 to 265.77. If you try to squeze in between with some uneven number in order to not pay taker fee then you most probably only end up with a 0.2% fee in your history. Sad

Xiaoxiao

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The Golden Rule Rules

Could someone clue me in on what this whole fiasco about bitfinex "owner" gets "busted" is all about?

medicine

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Quote from: Ente on January 26, 2015, 05:51:22 PM

Thank you for the sum-up! So I didn't miss much on the last 100 pages? ;-)

I better not even start the months-old topics of:
- what exactly is the legal structure behind bitfinex?
- proof of solvency?
- loans fragment infinitely?

Ente

+1
The first two topics are critical and what keep me from trusting Bitfinex more. Answers to those topics would do a lot to legitimize this eternally in-beta platform. Also what is the eta on the Alphapoint platform upgrade?
Peace

Ente

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Thank you for the sum-up! So I didn't miss much on the last 100 pages? ;-)

I better not even start the months-old topics of:
- what exactly is the legal structure behind bitfinex?
- proof of solvency?
- loans fragment infinitely?

Ente

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