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Topic: Oil Submerged Configurations Discussion Thread (Read 13793 times)

hero member
Activity: 924
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Also, focus on getting the heat outdoors.  What is the point if you're still blowing it in the room to be dissipated by the air conditioning unit?   You should focus on a model similar to the portable air conditioner units that have window mount exhausts, only in this case, window mount radiators.   Even in extreme environments, like Arizona/New Mexico, you're still able to air exchange the heat and keep the oil at < 55C.


That's an opaque wall in the diagram, I guess, is hard to see but I put it between the tank and heat exchanger obviously we would put the heat exchanger outside. Not much room on tinkercad workspace. We will source as you have instructed and update the list. In terms of getting huge orders of oil don't think that will happen not as easy here in Indonesia to source things like this so we will do what we can. Worry about getting bamboozled on the oil. I will try and get a tank that does less than 350 gallons but will need to see on prices. I don't have the resources and need to have something smaller that I can manage.

Also what about fiberglass tanks they should be ok would they not?
What about PEX pipes as they are much easier to fit and manipulate are they prone to degrading with this oil?
Oil or Hydraulic Pumps?

Notes:

Indium under the heatsinks or a copper shim.
Heat exchanger all metal properly engineered.
Transformer oil as specified.
Steel tanks (Fiberglass?).
Fittings and pipes metal (PEX?).

Do proper calculations before parts purchased.

Quote
"Thermodynamics and fluid dynamics are sciences not something you come up with an end all solution without calculation, experimentation, and process metrics and refinement."
full member
Activity: 125
Merit: 100
maybe the pads might be the best route.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/17467/thr-178/Fujipoly_Ultra_Extreme_System_Builder_Thermal_Pad_-_Full_Sheet_-_200_x_150_x_05_-_Thermal_Conductivity_170_WmK.html

The best you can buy, and should do ~400 chips each sheet, if you cut them small enough. Don't need a whole 1/4 sheet to cover the whole board, esp since these are wicked expensive.

Sure there are cheaper alternatives directly from China.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/5Pcs-lot-30CMx3CMx0-3MM-Thermal-Pad-CPU-GPU-DDR-RAM-CHIP-3320-01-05/632016505.html

US $3.22 / lot
5 pieces / lot , $0.64 / piece

But... 17.0 W/mK vs 3.2W/mK ...

If i had 400 chips to use up 1 expensive sheet (and all the time in the world), id put the expensive one just under the vias, use the cheap sheet (with holes) for rest of the board.

Those sheets will degrade in oil.  More correctly they will swell and then dissolve.  As will thermal grease.  You want indium foil.  Its expensive, but you don't need much per IC.  Alternatively since the heat per area of the IC in this application is low, why not just lap a copper shim?


full member
Activity: 125
Merit: 100
Crystal Plus 70T Mineral Oil

http://www.steoil.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/70T-MSDS.pdf

Anyone else got some MSDS data sheets on different potential mineral oils or transformer oils?

That's only food grade mineral oil and lacks characterization with regards to flash point, PBA content, material interaction.  It would likely attack solder masks and bonders on and in PCB.

76 Transformer Oil - cheap, easy to find
http://www.conncoll.edu/offices/ehs/EnvhealthDocs/Transformer_Oil.pdf
DSI Opticool - hard to find, apparently good stuff
http://dsiventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/PDS-Opticool.pdf

With regards to volume, 55 gallons is about the smallest you can find.   Usually transformer oil is sold by the tanker (~10k gallons).  It requires 350 gallons to fill a 42U rack sized tank.

I've been meaning to experiment with EDM fluid, as it has similar requirements to transformer oil in its primary function and is available in 5 gallon pails.  However, this being said, its $25USD/gallon in pails.  The only reason I'm suggesting this unknown is it may give opportunity to experiment instead of making conjectures about infeasible things like plastic bathtubs, horse laxatives, and $10 chinese pumps that water cooled PC folks pay $90 for.  Thermodynamics and fluid dynamics are sciences not something you come up with an end all solution without calculation, experimentation, and process metrics and refinement.


full member
Activity: 125
Merit: 100
Also, focus on getting the heat outdoors.  What is the point if you're still blowing it in the room to be dissipated by the air conditioning unit?   You should focus on a model similar to the portable air conditioner units that have window mount exhausts, only in this case, window mount radiators.   Even in extreme environments, like Arizona/New Mexico, you're still able to air exchange the heat and keep the oil at < 55C.
full member
Activity: 125
Merit: 100
I was thinking something like this but as a fiberglass unit.



Recycling all the rage... what about an old freezer? http://webpages.charter.net/redusc/Freezer.html Don't drill through the walls for piping.




Almost all mineral oil distillates degrade HDPE, LDPE, acrylics, etc.   I would avoid plastic and stick to steel as its cheap, easy to work with, and structurally sound.

Also with regards to radiators/pumps.  Again, I'll say avoid PC cooling crap (emphasis on crap).  They all use poor gasket material (EDPM, which swells when it comes in contact with most oils), most have plastic impellers, and provide zero characterization data.   If you use it, you'll be guessing and waiting for failure.  Engineering post component selection rarely provides correct or efficient designs.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Doing a little layout work...



hero member
Activity: 924
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https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2712907

Stealing from the water block ideas... muhahaha.

The MO-RA3 is a heat exchanger featuring excellent cooling performance and various possibilities of application. Its reliability allows for usage in workstation and server environments and it is sturdy enough for industrial applications. And, of course, it is powerful enough to cool even the hottest gaming PC. True to the slogan “there is no replacement for surface but more surface”, the MO-RA3 uses 36 m copper tubing and 3.0 square meter of aluminium fins for excellent heat transfer from cooling fluid to ambient air.

The cooling fluid passes the 72 tubes in a four-time parallel layout. This design and the flow-optimised connection block ensure a low flow-resistance, despite the large size of the heat-exchanger. The connection block improves flexibility as well by providing G1/4“ threads in three directions. The fins of the MO-RA3 have been optimised specifically for low-rpm fans. Their enormous surface and effective geometry guarantee excellent cooling performance.

Possible fan configurations

MO-RA3 420 LT

Nine 140 x 140 x 25 mm fans

MO-RA3 420 PRO

Eighteen 140 x 140 x 25 mm fans

http://shop.watercool.de/epages/WatercooleK.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/WatercooleK/Products/25120

hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Ya not any easier here in Indonesia Ben... I am interested what PRICE will be coming at me.


Pipes... I am thinking: PEX.


PEX (cross-linked polyethylene) has several advantages over copper:

PEX is cheaper than copper. Half-inch PEX tubing costs about a third the price of copper. Some of the savings will be offset by the need for a special tool to install the fittings, but if you’re doing a medium to large plumbing job, you’ll usually save by using PEX instead of copper.

PEX is faster to install than copper. If you use a manifold and “home-run” system (shown below), it’s like running a garden hose to each fixture—super fast and easy. But even if you install PEX in a conventional main line and branch system, the connections are quicker to make than soldering copper.

PEX won’t corrode like copper. If you live in an area with acidic water, copper can corrode over time. PEX is unaffected by acidic water and is therefore a better choice in these areas.

What about PEX vs. CPVC?

PEX and CPVC cost about the same. But there are a few reasons why PEX may be a better choice. First, PEX doesn’t require glue, which means you don’t have to work in well-ventilated spaces or wear a respirator. PEX is less likely than CPVC to burst if it freezes. Also, since PEX is more flexible and is available in long lengths, it can work better for “fishing” through walls in remodeling situations.

http://www.familyhandyman.com/plumbing/plumbing-with-pex-tubing/step-by-step

Different types of pex pipe; the cost, the tools required and applications of and advantages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=G7Ya8Nv5g-M&NR=1
hero member
Activity: 826
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Crystal Plus 70T Mineral Oil

http://www.steoil.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/70T-MSDS.pdf

Anyone else got some MSDS data sheets on different potential mineral oils or transformer oils?
I found Shell Diala S2 ZU-I Dried NGT: http://www.shell.co.uk/gbr/products-services/solutions-for-businesses/business-lubricants-tpkg/products/product-range/diala.html

It's a pain to find any mineral oil in Holland. The Dutch translation leads to a pletora of beauty products, pfffft.
I did manage to find a shop for the Shell Diala, only available in 209L barrel at €600. Might be just enough for me, LOL!
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Crystal Plus 70T Mineral Oil

http://www.steoil.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/70T-MSDS.pdf

Anyone else got some MSDS data sheets on different potential mineral oils or transformer oils?
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Going to source the following Friday:

OIL (Mineral Oil)
HEAT EXCHANGERS (Plate and Finned Rads)

http://www.metalindoengineering.com/pdf/Air%20Cooled%20HE/Plate%20Fin%20Coil.pdf

I will try and document the shopping trip as well as the build process over the next few weeks. Try to get some pictures up on Friday.

Note me and another member of the Big Picture Mining Cooperative are going to build an Oil Cooling Tank for his older GPUs he has been litecoin mining with and I will be testing my 3 - X6500 FPGA in the same tank as an analog for future miners like Klondikes 16s or Klondike K64 Blades or Bitfury boards. The X6500s run hot in my living room so it should be interesting to see the what happens.
hero member
Activity: 924
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sr. member
Activity: 282
Merit: 250
aha! yes baby blue tank... keep on talking boys.. we are getting there, ive been watching since page #1
hero member
Activity: 924
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How about using metal tank instead of plastic/fiber glass?

I would think thermal conductivity would help in such setup...

Interactivity of metal with oil? Not sure about metal containers. Cost as well might be prohibitive. Heat can get through fiberglass walled tanks... hot tubs are sprayed with insulating foam to save heating costs. So heat will be lost through the tank walls.

Found a perfect tank in baby blue going to check pricing next week.

sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
Supersonic
How about using metal tank instead of plastic/fiber glass?

I would think thermal conductivity would help in such setup...
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
No you unplug the freezer use it as the holding tank... see the retrofit for taps in the link...

Fish tanks? Wow... bit too small for a farm. Just get $100 water block from the other cooling thread if you are doing something that small.


Ideal would be these sorts of fiberglass planters I think.

hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 1001
Someone on another thread added a link to an awesome fish tank project with a pc, ideal size, it worked, and they now make a kit all components included for you for around US $500...
Do you mean this firm: http://www.pugetsystems.com/ ?
hero member
Activity: 532
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Someone on another thread added a link to an awesome fish tank project with a pc, ideal size, it worked, and they now make a kit all components included for you for around US $500...
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 1001

Do you own a refinery ?! That will use a lot of mineral oil, darn!

LOL, -18 degrees C mineral oil, better get one that isn't frozen at that temp! (In reality, the Avalon chips will heat the oil more than the freezer can cool it)
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
I was thinking something like this but as a fiberglass unit.



Recycling all the rage... what about an old freezer? http://webpages.charter.net/redusc/Freezer.html Don't drill through the walls for piping.


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