Topic: On whales and their impact (Read 480 times)
I think exchanges have alot to do with whales trading because most of their activities originate from one exchange then traders help them unknowingly by their activities which create all the FUD and FOMO It will be better to trade with value of assets in mind than just what is pumping and what will pump later but is hard to overcome our greed as humans
I think that the system due to which very large players manipulate the market is much more complicated than we might think. Let's not forget that those who control the market have at their disposal not only money, but also exchanges where trading takes place. This combination is enough to create any price they need.
For example, when the Mt. Gox custodian was selling his huge stash of coins, he was just actively selling with his only concern not to crash the price too fast
I'm not so sure of that. The way everything around the sales of these coins has gone stinks. It wouldn't even surprise me if coins have been dumped recklessly with large short positions to extract even more money out of the market.Don't forget that they took hundreds of millions in fiat out of the market, and that especially in the crypto world with the poor liquidity of exchanges, is quite an achievement on its own. They intentionally crashed the market, and that can't be denied
It may have looked like a crash in the end
Damn, it was a crash if we take into account how much the price dropped. However, I had been there and it felt exactly like a very well thought-out attempt at squeezing maximum juice from the market. There was plenty of intermittent sell pressure but it still didn't feel like a reckless dump. It felt like someone was giving traders time to recuperate
Actually, there are quite a few topics revealing first-hand experience of that time, and it definitely was not like one huge sell into the market at whatever price. In other words, the final price at the end of this selling spree was likely the best price that such a sell could ever get
For example, when the Mt. Gox custodian was selling his huge stash of coins, he was just actively selling with his only concern not to crash the price too fast
I'm not so sure of that. The way everything around the sales of these coins has gone stinks. It wouldn't even surprise me if coins have been dumped recklessly with large short positions to extract even more money out of the market.Don't forget that they took hundreds of millions in fiat out of the market, and that especially in the crypto world with the poor liquidity of exchanges, is quite an achievement on its own. They intentionally crashed the market, and that can't be denied.
So they cannot just manipulate the price. They also fear that it might go the other way and they will lose on whatever decision they will make
It seems to me that we can't speak for those who would go as whales here
That said, I don't think someone who is buying a pile of bitcoins or going to sell as much actually cares about whoever might be on the opposite side of the trade and what their agenda could be. For example, when the Mt. Gox custodian was selling his huge stash of coins, he was just actively selling with his only concern not to crash the price too fast
So did he really care (let alone fear) if his buyer was a whale who had his own agenda and plans? I don't think very much. I guess he was just happy to see a lot of support building against his selling orders as that allowed him to liquidate his coins at the highest price possible (given the market conditions back in the day)
Massage as you said it or they also have a big part to why it is happening.
I do think whales also have the time where they dont profit from what they do or they cannot just go back into buying anymore.
Why? There could be another whale on the other side which also want to make profit out of one token or whatever pick they where trading.
What is the percentage that they are both trading the same token? A large percentage.
So they cannot just manipulate the price. They also fear that it might go the other way and they will lose on whatever decision they will make.
I do think whales also have the time where they dont profit from what they do or they cannot just go back into buying anymore.
Why? There could be another whale on the other side which also want to make profit out of one token or whatever pick they where trading.
What is the percentage that they are both trading the same token? A large percentage.
So they cannot just manipulate the price. They also fear that it might go the other way and they will lose on whatever decision they will make.
Whales has a very great impact in the market because the market capitalization of the entire crypto market is still very small making it easy for anyone with huge amount of money to manipulate the price with just a click of a button, though this might not work in some coin like bitcoin because it has be listed in so many exchanges and it will take the whale investing huge amount of money in at least 50% of this exchanges to manipulate price
Personally, I wouldn't call that manipulation
As what you mean (i.e. anyone with deep pockets buying a lot of Bitcoin and thereby moving the price up) is a regular market activity. Technically, this is how we are expecting the market to resurrect in due time, with more institutional buyers entering the fray. Would that count as manipulation? I guess no, though I agree that the term and notion itself is a bit vague and requires a more clear definition
We can spot out manipulation when it already happens ( specially pump and dump of prices) but if we are still on the process, pointing it out is really hard.
Whales has a very great impact in the market because the market capitalization of the entire crypto market is still very small making it easy for anyone with huge amount of money to manipulate the price with just a click of a button, though this might not work in some coin like bitcoin because it has be listed in so many exchanges and it will take the whale investing huge amount of money in at least 50% of this exchanges to manipulate price
Personally, I wouldn't call that manipulation
As what you mean (i.e. anyone with deep pockets buying a lot of Bitcoin and thereby moving the price up) is a regular market activity. Technically, this is how we are expecting the market to resurrect in due time, with more institutional buyers entering the fray. Would that count as manipulation? I guess no, though I agree that the term and notion itself is a bit vague and requires a more clear definition
Whales has a very great impact in the market because the market capitalization of the entire crypto market is still very small making it easy for anyone with huge amount of money to manipulate the price with just a click of a button, though this might not work in some coin like bitcoin because it has be listed in so many exchanges and it will take the whale investing huge amount of money in at least 50% of this exchanges to manipulate price.
I think people are making whales into a scapegoat
Whales do buy as well as sell since otherwise they wouldn't be able to become whales in the first place (apart from mining, of course). But we have yet to see any conclusive and solid evidence that any whale is actually engaged in actual market manipulation. People love to talk about this sort of thing as it gives them piece of mind via rationalization of their losses allegedly incurred through deliberate market manipulation by wealthy cryptoholders. Please note that I don't deny market manipulation as such but I'm very dubious and skeptical whether it really comes from whales. Does anyone actually think that the Winklevii (for example) are manipulating the market?
Whales do buy as well as sell since otherwise they wouldn't be able to become whales in the first place (apart from mining, of course). But we have yet to see any conclusive and solid evidence that any whale is actually engaged in actual market manipulation. People love to talk about this sort of thing as it gives them piece of mind via rationalization of their losses allegedly incurred through deliberate market manipulation by wealthy cryptoholders. Please note that I don't deny market manipulation as such but I'm very dubious and skeptical whether it really comes from whales. Does anyone actually think that the Winklevii (for example) are manipulating the market?
I believe the whales has great impact on the cryptocurrencies market and that is why we are having the volatility in the market and the whales are not only existing in the cryptocurrency market but all face of the market. I think I have the desire to be among the whales as they are the one making really money from this market.
People say whales do manipulate the price, that alone would explain how big their impact in the market is.
It's not new to many of us, this market can be manipulated because of its lack of regulation and they can make that over and over again.
that's true . so what if whales are manipulating the crypto market ? instead of complaining why cant we just utilize thier purpose ? when whales dump the market its not bad but rather thats an oppurtunity to buy more coins because the price can now be affordable . whales can also pump the price and this is what people love the most becuase they can now easily sell thier coins at a higher rates . we just need to learn how to wait and to have a self control .
Whales are just part of every ecosystem and hence manipulations are also happening everywhere and we the small players need to sail on their directions in order to survive otherwise staying away from active markets is recommended. We are all assuming that whales may lose their power over the time but the bitter truth is, group of people who are managing institutional funds may remain as an big manipulator forever and their impact may not find an end. This is the reason, I am saying that whales are just part of system and we must need to get practiced to live among them.
Some whales (either natural or formed) will always be there and will manipulate the market directions but how we make use of those manipulation is alone accountable and definitely not the existence of whales nor their act of manipulations.
Some whales (either natural or formed) will always be there and will manipulate the market directions but how we make use of those manipulation is alone accountable and definitely not the existence of whales nor their act of manipulations.
I believe the whales has great impact on the cryptocurrencies market and that is why we are having the volatility in the market and the whales are not only existing in the cryptocurrency market but all face of the market. I think I have the desire to be among the whales as they are the one making really money from this market.
People say whales do manipulate the price, that alone would explain how big their impact in the market is.
It's not new to many of us, this market can be manipulated because of its lack of regulation and they can make that over and over again.
I believe the whales has great impact on the cryptocurrencies market and that is why we are having the volatility in the market and the whales are not only existing in the cryptocurrency market but all face of the market. I think I have the desire to be among the whales as they are the one making really money from this market.
The price movements we have now couldn't be only attributed to one source, I think its a mix from both the exchanges jacking up the volume at the same time whales dropping the bomb. There is no single force that could make this price changes and its really the chain of events that leads to it. If exchanges manipulate data then yes sure it's an easier way to manipulate the market but the only thing that can change the price is of course real time buying and selling which would really influence the market
As much as I myself want that to be true, it may not. I understand that many people will massively disbelieve this theory or even discard it as purely conspiratorial (that doesn't necessarily mean that I strongly believe in it myself, just in case) but given how many tethers Bitfinex had printed and taking into account just the possibility that at least some of them were not backed up by real dollars (read, they had been creating tethers out of thin air for some time), a single exchange could potentially start and then support a historic bull run leading to price manipulation on the scale of a few hundred percent
And to an outsider, that would look like perfectly authentic market activity (as it was)
The price movements we have now couldn't be only attributed to one source, I think its a mix from both the exchanges jacking up the volume at the same time whales dropping the bomb. There is no single force that could make this price changes and its really the chain of events that leads to it. If exchanges manipulate data then yes sure it's an easier way to manipulate the market but the only thing that can change the price is of course real time buying and selling which would really influence the market.
From my perspective, this is an exercise in futility and stupidity. If a certain project is worth it (read, it is not vaporware and does or offers some real stuff), people won't dump their tokens easily, while those who do will regret their hasty and ill-considered decision later
Being a good project or not doesn’t really determine if an investor will dump the coin or not, mindset of many investors are so corrupt now that they moment they decide to invest in a project, they only go in for the profit immediately they see oneBut is this really so?
The good project is good not because its investors are keeping their investments in it (it is an inevitable long-term outcome but not a cause of its being good) but because it is good by and in itself (read, it does something useful and creates value). So even if braindead bounty hunters dump the tokens as soon as they get these tokens, people who see the true potential of the project will be just happy to buy up them cheap. In other words, the stupid investors will leave while clever ones come
I still agree with you partially, irrespective of the dumping, any project with good product should be able to swim this wave out and still retain its price, if the product is really working for it
To sum it up, there is no lack of investors, there is a lack of good and promising projects
A lot of project developer too are quite confused on how to curtail all these manipulation, some of them has even come up with the strategy of locking bounty hunter’s rewards, thinking they are the cause of the dumping going on and yet, it still has not effect, right now, I don’t think any solution will even come from an exchange because they are always the beneficiaries of these manipulation
From my perspective, this is an exercise in futility and stupidity. If a certain project is worth it (read, it is not vaporware and does or offers some real stuff), people won't dump their tokens easily, while those who do will regret their hasty and ill-considered decision later
In my opinion, whales do exist but just that not all the market fluctuation should be attributed to their activities of either buying and selling off their coins over the time. This is because the forces of demand and supply also affects the volume of the market and also the market trend
Whales exist and there's no doubt about it
If we are talking about Bitcoin here, the wallets belonging to individuals which can arguably be considered whales are well known (there are lists of these wallets on the net if anyone is curious). So this is not a matter for debate unlike the real impact of whales on the price. I didn't analyze the stats of the top wallet balance changes but I suspect that the coins are mostly sitting idly there. All action happens with exchange wallets which gives us a good clue as to who is behind most of the price action in the market (if we subtract global trends)
A lot of project developer too are quite confused on how to curtail all these manipulation, some of them has even come up with the strategy of locking bounty hunter’s rewards, thinking they are the cause of the dumping going on and yet, it still has not effect, right now, I don’t think any solution will even come from an exchange because they are always the beneficiaries of these manipulation
From my perspective, this is an exercise in futility and stupidity. If a certain project is worth it (read, it is not vaporware and does or offers some real stuff), people won't dump their tokens easily, while those who do will regret their hasty and ill-considered decision later
Sometimes, this manipulation of a thing is quite really difficult to understand as many factors we attach to this are still quite speculative since we are not completely sure of it. I know we have whales in the market but the level of their involvement in the market is what I cannot say, I also know that many exchanges too have their own input too in this manipulations and sometimes personally, I do even suspect the project developers, after all they also own a substantial amount of the coins in their jurisdiction though I know we have lots of respected developers that wouldn’t do so, it just my opinion.
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