Topic: On whales and their impact - page 2. (Read 480 times)

The manipulation techniques are essentially the same as with any other tradable asset out there, and they have little to do with what you describe here (read, it is not about traders placing orders - whales or otherwise)

Just in case, insider trading is also illegal even though it is all about placing orders in the way you mean it

So it means there are only whales who can make that action. Because to do some act like that, only people with big money that can do it. But i see bitcoin price really can be manipulated, and sometime it can predicted by people.

an irrational investor that is considered big will not remain big if they continue acting irrationally. they are considered big gamblers that reside in the market for a short time before going bankrupt

Actually, we see a lot of hard evidence proving the opposite

And in this manner, the crypto markets are way more irrational than other markets out there. And making profits may in actuality mean propping up the price of some coin (though not necessarily Bitcoin). Bitcoin Cash and its variants are the first which come to mind instantly (e.g. Craig Wright buying hashes to support BSV)

Large traders are reacting to the market just like small traders. Sometimes they take whatever liquidity they can (including throwing up sell walls) because they need to enter/exit their position

Markets often gravitate towards liquidity (major bid/ask walls) before reversing so placing sell walls when the market is rising and looks strong is actually an established trading practice. It's called "selling into strength." This isn't manipulation

Sometimes I feel like people around here expect large traders to be irrational. They're here to make profits, not prop the price of BTC.

Anyway, to my opinion the influence of whales on Bitcoin price is exaggerated and they don't have so much power to manipate the market as people think

Exchanges can play a role in price manipulation by reporting fake volumes or wash-trading in some cases but I but more often than not ,there actually whales who swing the prices in their favor. They move funds simultaneously across different exchanges to effect price change ,so it is not solely at the call of a single exchange most times.

These whales will do great and eventually manipulate the price when they seen how their profit will go a long way. But for the current price movements right now, I don't we'll be experiencing back fast increasing crypto price. I agree their all winners at the same time, but as we played with them cleverly you'll be able to benefit from their end as they pumped up the price by buying more assets. Being smart is always the key to earn good profit as bull run initiates because of whales, and the smaller fish like us ate small portion of food that eventually brought us sustainable earnings by the time price hits the bullseye.

This is the strong point of your thread that I am strongly agree with although your all point alsmot true. Exchange themselves are involve with manipulation. They can manipulate easily if they want. Actually whales are not only manipulate but also play pump dump. To be honest whales will not sell on loss. They buy on dip and start manipulate or pump when they need to sell. Exchanges and whales both are playing with our money. They will never lose, because they are player and they are umpire. So obviously they are winner always.

I'm strongly inclined to think that much of the market manipulation we see these days is caused by cryptocurrency exchanges alone.

there is never going to be any kind of proof of manipulation in the market, if there were any then authorities would have already arrested manipulators since it is illegal to something like that!

by your definition, anyone placing orders on the book is a manipulator because they are blocking the price from moving the other direction. who is a manipulator and who is not? if you place a 500 BTC sell order at $10k because you think the price will drop, that means you're manipulating the market now?

Half of the threads in this board (i.e. Speculation) is about whales manipulating the market in one way or another. But do they really exist and what is their real impact? If you want to find out, stay with me

I think it can be assumed as an established fact that there's some kind of market rigging going on at any time, which makes room for speculations about rich dudes moving prices as they see fit. Just as there is little doubt that some market manipulation is actually happening (though it remains to be seen how much of any given price move is in fact caused by this manipulation), there is also little doubt that quite a bunch of people involved in cryptocurrencies are extremely rich. But are they really behind every price manipulation out there?

My take is that they are not. Of course, when they start to sell, the price goes down, and when they go on a buying spree, the price goes up, which is kind of self-explanatory. With that said though, I'm strongly inclined to think that much of the market manipulation we see these days is caused by cryptocurrency exchanges alone. Indeed, you could say that they are the whales in question but I have to disagree with this point of view as they don't own the funds of their traders (though they definitely use these funds to massage the prices to their advantage)

What's your take on this?

an established fact?

just like news, whales can't fundamentally dictate the market. bull whales can't stop a bear market. bear whales can't stop a bull market. those who try to manipulate in the wrong direction lose their money and cease to be whales. the smart ones move with the market and ride the trend

the manipulation can not be done by exchanges alone because none of them control enough of the market to have that kind of influence. the days of Mt Gox and controlling 85-90% of the volume in one place are long gone. these days exchanges that are gigantic only control about 8% of the volume. and you can't do much with that percentage

but manipulation exists, and even exchanges have ways of manipulating the market (they have access to the most amount of funds that anybody can have anyways!) but saying that is all there is (as some topics around here are doing) is just wrong