ONEDICE - Real gambling experience | INVEST | Faucet | Instant Withdraw - page 2.

RandyFolds

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: best360noscope on October 04, 2014, 02:59:47 AM

Quote from: Dabs on October 03, 2014, 10:21:49 PM

The game, the way it is described, is not provably fair for investors, as well as for players. I'll leave this post here and let you guys try to figure out why. (And if my post gets deleted, I will start a new thread.) It will have provable results, which is not the same.

*edit* Okay, someone else beat me to it. Exactly as a previous poster has described. The other way is to pause the game for everyone else just 1 second (or a time they can't notice) and calculate the desired bet ID needed for the win, then resume, grab that winning bet, and continue as if nothing happened.

It can be programmed in the server to do this transparently, and if no winning bet is found within 0.01 seconds, you can just skip it and try again later, attribute it to variances in lag.

Therefore, my statement is that it is not provably fair for investors, and it is also not provably fair for players. You might as well make it at least provably fair for players, and let investors take the chance that the site operators will not cheat.

Like the other guy said, I am not accusing anyone of anything, just that the way this is implemented is not provably fair for everyone.

I have a feeling they are ripping off players. Currently when you bet, your bet number will be about 160 above the one that is currenly shown on the page. Then, take a look at the all bets tab, some bets are shown to be at the same time but over 10 difference in bet ID, while no bets are shown between them. True, primedice also does not send out all bets, but come on, this is a new page, I doubt they are getting such volume.

I think the site is scamming player, take care.

Then you should look at primedice as the same thing happens there...it's impossible to synchronize everythign to fit so perfectly when you get over 10 bets/second

tucenaber

sr. member

Activity: 337

Merit: 252

Quote from: Dabs on October 03, 2014, 10:21:49 PM

The game, the way it is described, is not provably fair for investors, as well as for players. I'll leave this post here and let you guys try to figure out why. (And if my post gets deleted, I will start a new thread.) It will have provable results, which is not the same.

*edit* Okay, someone else beat me to it. Exactly as a previous poster has described. The other way is to pause the game for everyone else just 1 second (or a time they can't notice) and calculate the desired bet ID needed for the win, then resume, grab that winning bet, and continue as if nothing happened.

It can be programmed in the server to do this transparently, and if no winning bet is found within 0.01 seconds, you can just skip it and try again later, attribute it to variances in lag.

Therefore, my statement is that it is not provably fair for investors, and it is also not provably fair for players. You might as well make it at least provably fair for players, and let investors take the chance that the site operators will not cheat.

Like the other guy said, I am not accusing anyone of anything, just that the way this is implemented is not provably fair for everyone.

You're right! It's not even provably fair for gamblers here. I didn't think of that, but by skipping bet ids it's super easy to do.
You're also right about the fact that there is at least two ways to cheat investors. I mentioned only one but doing a few extra hashes to find a client seed to make a win shouldn't take more than a millisecond.

elm

legendary

Activity: 1050

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Dabs on October 03, 2014, 10:21:49 PM

The game, the way it is described, is not provably fair for investors, as well as for players. I'll leave this post here and let you guys try to figure out why. (And if my post gets deleted, I will start a new thread.) It will have provable results, which is not the same.

*edit* Okay, someone else beat me to it. Exactly as a previous poster has described. The other way is to pause the game for everyone else just 1 second (or a time they can't notice) and calculate the desired bet ID needed for the win, then resume, grab that winning bet, and continue as if nothing happened.

It can be programmed in the server to do this transparently, and if no winning bet is found within 0.01 seconds, you can just skip it and try again later, attribute it to variances in lag.

Therefore, my statement is that it is not provably fair for investors, and it is also not provably fair for players. You might as well make it at least provably fair for players, and let investors take the chance that the site operators will not cheat.

Like the other guy said, I am not accusing anyone of anything, just that the way this is implemented is not provably fair for everyone.

another good example that we need a Provably Fair Police. operators, investors and players should tip Dabs or anyone else who is finding and exposing cheaters.

waterpile

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

that explains the reason why there is no chat room. I had the feeling something fishy was going on

CarlesPuyol

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1000

Is it a possibility to try the game without registration?

best360noscope

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: Dabs on October 03, 2014, 10:21:49 PM

The game, the way it is described, is not provably fair for investors, as well as for players. I'll leave this post here and let you guys try to figure out why. (And if my post gets deleted, I will start a new thread.) It will have provable results, which is not the same.

*edit* Okay, someone else beat me to it. Exactly as a previous poster has described. The other way is to pause the game for everyone else just 1 second (or a time they can't notice) and calculate the desired bet ID needed for the win, then resume, grab that winning bet, and continue as if nothing happened.

It can be programmed in the server to do this transparently, and if no winning bet is found within 0.01 seconds, you can just skip it and try again later, attribute it to variances in lag.

Therefore, my statement is that it is not provably fair for investors, and it is also not provably fair for players. You might as well make it at least provably fair for players, and let investors take the chance that the site operators will not cheat.

Like the other guy said, I am not accusing anyone of anything, just that the way this is implemented is not provably fair for everyone.

I have a feeling they are ripping off players. Currently when you bet, your bet number will be about 160 above the one that is currenly shown on the page. Then, take a look at the all bets tab, some bets are shown to be at the same time but over 10 difference in bet ID, while no bets are shown between them. True, primedice also does not send out all bets, but come on, this is a new page, I doubt they are getting such volume.

I think the site is scamming player, take care.

Dabs

legendary

Activity: 3416

Merit: 1912

The Concierge of Crypto

The game, the way it is described, is not provably fair for investors, as well as for players. I'll leave this post here and let you guys try to figure out why. (And if my post gets deleted, I will start a new thread.) It will have provable results, which is not the same.

*edit* Okay, someone else beat me to it. Exactly as a previous poster has described. The other way is to pause the game for everyone else just 1 second (or a time they can't notice) and calculate the desired bet ID needed for the win, then resume, grab that winning bet, and continue as if nothing happened.

It can be programmed in the server to do this transparently, and if no winning bet is found within 0.01 seconds, you can just skip it and try again later, attribute it to variances in lag.

Therefore, my statement is that it is not provably fair for investors, and it is also not provably fair for players. You might as well make it at least provably fair for players, and let investors take the chance that the site operators will not cheat.

Like the other guy said, I am not accusing anyone of anything, just that the way this is implemented is not provably fair for everyone.

tigerfree

legendary

Activity: 1015

Merit: 1000

added 1 btc will invest more if it worked fine

. hope good site .

cloverme

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1057

SpacePirate.io

Quote from: Nobitcoin on October 03, 2014, 12:54:07 PM

Your site isn't compatible with my android phone... What a shame wanted to play Undecided

I had some trouble too... I like the graphics though. The button click to roll doesn't always work, seems there's a bug in there someplace too. Will try again later.

waterpile

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

whats the use of the icons on the left side when i click those a blank page appears

RandyFolds

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: conteaza on October 03, 2014, 03:22:17 PM

Did you put specially minimum bet ammount 10 satoshis or it's another bug?

Yes, it is set to 10 satoshi, not a bug.

conteaza

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Did you put specially minimum bet ammount 10 satoshis or it's another bug?

tucenaber

sr. member

Activity: 337

Merit: 252

Quote from: RandyFolds on October 03, 2014, 02:37:52 PM

Me and my partners had the best intentions when thinking about this system. And I feel bad now when reading these posts. I guess it's possible to do what you said but if we wanted to do this then we would just implement system that other sites use as it would be easier to abuse it then.

No need to feel bad about that. You're just as good as the others Wink

I seem to have misunderstood your investment scheme in the first place. I think I still don't understand it!

rarkenin

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 500

You have a cool looking site, well designed with new invest approach. To bad all this turned into a witch hunt.

Will deposit few coins and test my luck.

Wish you the best

RandyFolds

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: tucenaber on October 03, 2014, 02:18:42 PM

This is how you win with your own client seed:

Create any client seed. Whenever a bet id comes up that would give a win for that client seed, grab it for yourself. The regular player who should have gotten this particular bet id gets the next one, and he is just as happy with this number instead. There is no way to tell from the outside what just happened.

Surely you can see this?

And no, you would not be playing against yourselves as well. For one simple reason: you get the money and the other investors don't.

Please note that I'm not accusing you of doing this! Every other gambling site out there could do the exact same thing. I just want you to not make false claims.

Me and my partners had the best intentions when thinking about this system. And I feel bad now when reading these posts. I guess it's possible to do what you said but if we wanted to do this then we would just implement system that other sites use as it would be easier to abuse it then.

moreia

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

The fact that sites have the ability to do this bugs me, there should be a way to prevent it but sadly there isn't

tucenaber

sr. member

Activity: 337

Merit: 252

This is how you win with your own client seed:

Create any client seed. Whenever a bet id comes up that would give a win for that client seed, grab it for yourself. The regular player who should have gotten this particular bet id gets the next one, and he is just as happy with this number instead. There is no way to tell from the outside what just happened.

Surely you can see this?

And no, you would not be playing against yourselves as well. For one simple reason: you get the money and the other investors don't.

Please note that I'm not accusing you of doing this! Every other gambling site out there could do the exact same thing. I just want you to not make false claims.

RandyFolds

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: moreia on October 03, 2014, 01:34:13 PM

Quote from: tucenaber on October 03, 2014, 01:28:32 PM

But my other issue is with the statement "there is not way for the site operators to play against investors because of the way bet numbers are calculated". I don't believe that this is possible to achieve, but if you have done that I would like to know how.

Simple, disable betting for all other users and win each and every roll. It'll be very easy to notice though and probably has been tested in the beta phases

Yes, that would work for sure I agree but how it would look like, what's the point of doing it. If we were planning to cheat investors then we would just use same method others use, then you can do this as much as you like without anyone noticing.

RandyFolds

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: tucenaber on October 03, 2014, 01:28:32 PM

Let me explain what I mean. If the total bankroll is 5 BTC, the risk is huge because one player could wipe you out in just one roll. On the other hand, if the bankroll is 50 000 the risk is small. It all depends on the relation between the max payout and the total bankroll. So my question is what number is that? Is it 0.5%? 1%? I hope it is not 5% or something ridiculous like that...

But my other issue is with the statement "there is not way for the site operators to play against investors because of the way bet numbers are calculated". I don't believe that this is possible to achieve, but if you have done that I would like to know how.

Edit: I just noticed that I missed this

Quote

We can't know outcome of any bets due to fact that BET ID is used to calculated each roll, in theory this would be only possible if we were only player playing on the site at that particular moment.

This is not true I'm afraid. You control both betid and server seed. You can just increment a player's betid whenever you want and jump in between.

For the sake of this discussion let's say bankroll really is 5 BTC, then what, one player comes, wins single 5 BTC bet, if you were investor that invested 100BTC you would lost exactly 0.005 from your investment and that's it. No more betting as bankroll is empty.

Not sure I understand the part with playing against investors, not sure how we could just jump in. But anyways we would be playing against ourselves in major part even if cheating was possible somehow.

moreia

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Quote from: tucenaber on October 03, 2014, 01:28:32 PM

But my other issue is with the statement "there is not way for the site operators to play against investors because of the way bet numbers are calculated". I don't believe that this is possible to achieve, but if you have done that I would like to know how.

Simple, disable betting for all other users and win each and every roll. It'll be very easy to notice though and probably has been tested in the beta phases

Topic: ONEDICE - Real gambling experience | INVEST | Faucet | Instant Withdraw - page 2. (Read 4199 times)