Moving this over to Marketplace, honestly don't know why mods moved it here to begin with.
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Topic: [OPEN] A2 86mh/s Terminator Hosted Groupbuy *Price Protection* (Read 1405 times)
cr4sh0verride has purchased a share
I would be a bit afraid that after hosting you can't sell the machine for what it cost, as is atm with for example the gridseeds. Once there are more than a few machines on the market they will start dropping prices hard I assume.
What happens with profitability is anybody's guess, but that's the nature of mining. One thing to take into consideration is the fact that this machine has the lowest power consumption on the market right now. This means mining will be viable for longer, so we'll be able to fetch more for it at the end.As I've said in my groupbuys before, I make no claims on if I think we will ROI or not. What I do know is that unless you're dropping the cash for one of the really powerful miners, this is the best price you'll get. Going off the cheapest secondhand Gridseeds I could find, the same amount of mining power would cost $57.33, and that doesn't even include the power cables+control unit+USB hub+shipping, plus you have to host them yourself! To top it off, their high power use would probably make them close to obsolete in 90 days. Even if we step it up, a 13mh/s hosted miner at Gaw would cost $52.92 for the same amount with a 2.5% hosting fee. That's a pre-order by the way, not up until the second of next month.
I think that the best way to handle this is to have a vote later on (when profitability starts to decline) to determine when to sell it. Each share would equal one vote, and it could mine while it is on the market. When it sells, the proceeds would be split according to shares.
I was going to help try to come up with more specifics (as to when the voting would be initialized) but that's a tough one. The best plan is to come up with something that's kind of like the spark. "if x happens, the voting becomes active." This helps give a more strict set of rules and ensures everyone is on the same page. The things I came up with are:
1) Network hash rate hits x
2) ASICs from x are released (or at x hash rate are shipped)
3) Profitability hits x threshold
Because how else do you determine when it's time to sell? Just watching what is said in the thread doesn't really validate the majority's opinion. You can end up having many polls as a result, all of them failing because a few people want to sell and the majority don't.
That method should work as well.
.I'd so jump on this right now if I weren't so afraid of the incoming ASIC flood. I'm still trying to push myself to do it right now... it's hard.
Thanks for your vision on ROI
Regarding voting, MWNinja just closed down 4 groupbuys overnight without consulting anyone "because it was the best option" and sent everyone back a small fee for the shares, so I for one am very happy with the google docs voting thing you suggest.
Regarding voting, MWNinja just closed down 4 groupbuys overnight without consulting anyone "because it was the best option" and sent everyone back a small fee for the shares, so I for one am very happy with the google docs voting thing you suggest.
I would be a bit afraid that after hosting you can't sell the machine for what it cost, as is atm with for example the gridseeds. Once there are more than a few machines on the market they will start dropping prices hard I assume.
What happens with profitability is anybody's guess, but that's the nature of mining. One thing to take into consideration is the fact that this machine has the lowest power consumption on the market right now. This means mining will be viable for longer, so we'll be able to fetch more for it at the end.As I've said in my groupbuys before, I make no claims on if I think we will ROI or not. What I do know is that unless you're dropping the cash for one of the really powerful miners, this is the best price you'll get. Going off the cheapest secondhand Gridseeds I could find, the same amount of mining power would cost $57.33, and that doesn't even include the power cables+control unit+USB hub+shipping, plus you have to host them yourself! To top it off, their high power use would probably make them close to obsolete in 90 days. Even if we step it up, a 13mh/s hosted miner at Gaw would cost $52.92 for the same amount with a 2.5% hosting fee. That's a pre-order by the way, not up until the second of next month.
I think that the best way to handle this is to have a vote later on (when profitability starts to decline) to determine when to sell it. Each share would equal one vote, and it could mine while it is on the market. When it sells, the proceeds would be split according to shares.
I was going to help try to come up with more specifics (as to when the voting would be initialized) but that's a tough one. The best plan is to come up with something that's kind of like the spark. "if x happens, the voting becomes active." This helps give a more strict set of rules and ensures everyone is on the same page. The things I came up with are:
1) Network hash rate hits x
2) ASICs from x are released (or at x hash rate are shipped)
3) Profitability hits x threshold
Because how else do you determine when it's time to sell? Just watching what is said in the thread doesn't really validate the majority's opinion. You can end up having many polls as a result, all of them failing because a few people want to sell and the majority don't.
I would be a bit afraid that after hosting you can't sell the machine for what it cost, as is atm with for example the gridseeds. Once there are more than a few machines on the market they will start dropping prices hard I assume.
What happens with profitability is anybody's guess, but that's the nature of mining. One thing to take into consideration is the fact that this machine has the lowest power consumption on the market right now. This means mining will be viable for longer, so we'll be able to fetch more for it at the end.As I've said in my groupbuys before, I make no claims on if I think we will ROI or not. What I do know is that unless you're dropping the cash for one of the really powerful miners, this is the best price you'll get. Going off the cheapest secondhand Gridseeds I could find, the same amount of mining power would cost $57.33, and that doesn't even include the power cables+control unit+USB hub+shipping, plus you have to host them yourself! To top it off, their high power use would probably make them close to obsolete in 90 days. Even if we step it up, a 13mh/s hosted miner at Gaw would cost $52.92 for the same amount with a 2.5% hosting fee. That's a pre-order by the way, not up until the second of next month.
I think that the best way to handle this is to have a vote later on (when profitability starts to decline) to determine when to sell it. Each share would equal one vote, and it could mine while it is on the market. When it sells, the proceeds would be split according to shares.
I was going to help try to come up with more specifics (as to when the voting would be initialized) but that's a tough one. The best plan is to come up with something that's kind of like the spark. "if x happens, the voting becomes active." This helps give a more strict set of rules and ensures everyone is on the same page. The things I came up with are:
1) Network hash rate hits x
2) ASICs from x are released (or at x hash rate are shipped)
3) Profitability hits x threshold
Because how else do you determine when it's time to sell? Just watching what is said in the thread doesn't really validate the majority's opinion. You can end up having many polls as a result, all of them failing because a few people want to sell and the majority don't.
I would be a bit afraid that after hosting you can't sell the machine for what it cost, as is atm with for example the gridseeds. Once there are more than a few machines on the market they will start dropping prices hard I assume.
What happens with profitability is anybody's guess, but that's the nature of mining. One thing to take into consideration is the fact that this machine has the lowest power consumption on the market right now. This means mining will be viable for longer, so we'll be able to fetch more for it at the end.As I've said in my groupbuys before, I make no claims on if I think we will ROI or not. What I do know is that unless you're dropping the cash for one of the really powerful miners, this is the best price you'll get. Going off the cheapest secondhand Gridseeds I could find, the same amount of mining power would cost $57.33, and that doesn't even include the power cables+control unit+USB hub+shipping, plus you have to host them yourself! To top it off, their high power use would probably make them close to obsolete in 90 days. Even if we step it up, a 13mh/s hosted miner at Gaw would cost $52.92 for the same amount with a 2.5% hosting fee. That's a pre-order by the way, not up until the second of next month.
I think that the best way to handle this is to have a vote later on (when profitability starts to decline) to determine when to sell it. Each share would equal one vote, and it could mine while it is on the market. When it sells, the proceeds would be split according to shares.
I was going to help try to come up with more specifics (as to when the voting would be initialized) but that's a tough one. The best plan is to come up with something that's kind of like the spark. "if x happens, the voting becomes active." This helps give a more strict set of rules and ensures everyone is on the same page. The things I came up with are:
1) Network hash rate hits x
2) ASICs from x are released (or at x hash rate are shipped)
3) Profitability hits x threshold
I would be a bit afraid that after hosting you can't sell the machine for what it cost, as is atm with for example the gridseeds. Once there are more than a few machines on the market they will start dropping prices hard I assume.
What happens with profitability is anybody's guess, but that's the nature of mining. One thing to take into consideration is the fact that this machine has the lowest power consumption on the market right now. This means mining will be viable for longer, so we'll be able to fetch more for it at the end.As I've said in my groupbuys before, I make no claims on if I think we will ROI or not. What I do know is that unless you're dropping the cash for one of the really powerful miners, this is the best price you'll get. Going off the cheapest secondhand Gridseeds I could find, the same amount of mining power would cost $57.33, and that doesn't even include the power cables+control unit+USB hub+shipping, plus you have to host them yourself! To top it off, their high power use would probably make them close to obsolete in 90 days. Even if we step it up, a 13mh/s hosted miner at Gaw would cost $52.92 for the same amount with a 2.5% hosting fee. That's a pre-order by the way, not up until the second of next month.
I think that the best way to handle this is to have a vote later on (when profitability starts to decline) to determine when to sell it. Each share would equal one vote, and it could mine while it is on the market. When it sells, the proceeds would be split according to shares.
I was going to help try to come up with more specifics (as to when the voting would be initialized) but that's a tough one. The best plan is to come up with something that's kind of like the spark. "if x happens, the voting becomes active." This helps give a more strict set of rules and ensures everyone is on the same page. The things I came up with are:
1) Network hash rate hits x
2) ASICs from x are released (or at x hash rate are shipped)
3) Profitability hits x threshold
I would be a bit afraid that after hosting you can't sell the machine for what it cost, as is atm with for example the gridseeds. Once there are more than a few machines on the market they will start dropping prices hard I assume.
What happens with profitability is anybody's guess, but that's the nature of mining. One thing to take into consideration is the fact that this machine has the lowest power consumption on the market right now. This means mining will be viable for longer, so we'll be able to fetch more for it at the end.As I've said in my groupbuys before, I make no claims on if I think we will ROI or not. What I do know is that unless you're dropping the cash for one of the really powerful miners, this is the best price you'll get. Going off the cheapest secondhand Gridseeds I could find, the same amount of mining power would cost $57.33, and that doesn't even include the power cables+control unit+USB hub+shipping, plus you have to host them yourself! To top it off, their high power use would probably make them close to obsolete in 90 days. Even if we step it up, a 13mh/s hosted miner at Gaw would cost $52.92 for the same amount with a 2.5% hosting fee. That's a pre-order by the way, not up until the second of next month.
I think that the best way to handle this is to have a vote later on (when profitability starts to decline) to determine when to sell it. Each share would equal one vote, and it could mine while it is on the market. When it sells, the proceeds would be split according to shares.
I would be a bit afraid that after hosting you can't sell the machine for what it cost, as is atm with for example the gridseeds. Once there are more than a few machines on the market they will start dropping prices hard I assume.
What happens with profitability is anybody's guess, but that's the nature of mining. One thing to take into consideration is the fact that this machine has the lowest power consumption on the market right now. This means mining will be viable for longer, so we'll be able to fetch more for it at the end.As I've said in my groupbuys before, I make no claims on if I think we will ROI or not. What I do know is that unless you're dropping the cash for one of the really powerful miners, this is the best price you'll get. Going off the cheapest secondhand Gridseeds I could find, the same amount of mining power would cost $57.33, and that doesn't even include the power cables+control unit+USB hub+shipping, plus you have to host them yourself! To top it off, their high power use would probably make them close to obsolete in 90 days. Even if we step it up, a 13mh/s hosted miner at Gaw would cost $52.92 for the same amount with a 2.5% hosting fee. That's a pre-order by the way, not up until the second of next month.
I think that the best way to handle this is to have a vote later on (when profitability starts to decline) to determine when to sell it. Each share would equal one vote, and it could mine while it is on the market. When it sells, the proceeds would be split according to shares.
I would be a bit afraid that after hosting you can't sell the machine for what it cost, as is atm with for example the gridseeds. Once there are more than a few machines on the market they will start dropping prices hard I assume.
What happens with profitability is anybody's guess, but that's the nature of mining. One thing to take into consideration is the fact that this machine has the lowest power consumption on the market right now. This means mining will be viable for longer, so we'll be able to fetch more for it at the end.As I've said in my groupbuys before, I make no claims on if I think we will ROI or not. What I do know is that unless you're dropping the cash for one of the really powerful miners, this is the best price you'll get. Going off the cheapest secondhand Gridseeds I could find, the same amount of mining power would cost $57.33, and that doesn't even include the power cables+control unit+USB hub+shipping, plus you have to host them yourself! To top it off, their high power use would probably make them close to obsolete in 90 days. Even if we step it up, a 13mh/s hosted miner at Gaw would cost $52.92 for the same amount with a 2.5% hosting fee. That's a pre-order by the way, not up until the second of next month.
I would be a bit afraid that after hosting you can't sell the machine for what it cost, as is atm with for example the gridseeds. Once there are more than a few machines on the market they will start dropping prices hard I assume.
Daily bump for cheap mining
Price has been bumped down to $51.50 per share
It would be proven by a link to the Leaserig site where you could see a graph of the hashrate on it. While it won't provide long-term protection for the groupbuy, it would at least protect buyers from if we were to run off after we raised the 12k. Then again, we could just as easily run off after we mined for a few hours, so I see your point. As for your point about funding, having the money in escrow would keep us from converting to fiat, which would end up creating another problem.
It's looking like the best way to go forward with this is to just do it without a escrow. Thanks for your time
It's looking like the best way to go forward with this is to just do it without a escrow. Thanks for your time
Yes, we can see now why OGnasty chose not to get involved.
If there are any real protections that escrow can provide to buyers, and if there are solutions to issues with exchange rate fluctuations, I'm willing to hold escrow, but I don't want to provide a false sense of security.
PM'd you back. The escrow would only be for until we got up and mining to prove that we bought the hardware, not the whole groupbuy term. I don't know if this would make people feel any safer buying in, but the option should be there if possible
How would it be determined (proven) that you "got up and mining" and that you "bought the hardware"?
Obviously a post saying "Hey everyone, I just paid for the hardware, and it is now mining" isn't reasonable proof. Receiving a small payout or two isn't exactly reasonable proof either. I'm trying to understand what protection escrow is actually going to provide to the buyers.
At this point, as far as I can tell, the only protection provided is the guarantee of a partial refund if the exchange rate changes significantly between the time of escrow funding and the time of the actual purchase? How do you plan to handle the situation where a change in the exchange rate requires additional funding beyond what has already been paid?
It's looking like the best way to go forward with this is to just do it without a escrow. Thanks for your time
PM'd you back. The escrow would only be for until we got up and mining to prove that we bought the hardware, not the whole groupbuy term. I don't know if this would make people feel any safer buying in, but the option should be there if possible
How would it be determined (proven) that you "got up and mining" and that you "bought the hardware"?
Obviously a post saying "Hey everyone, I just paid for the hardware, and it is now mining" isn't reasonable proof. Receiving a small payout or two isn't exactly reasonable proof either. I'm trying to understand what protection escrow is actually going to provide to the buyers.
At this point, as far as I can tell, the only protection provided is the guarantee of a partial refund if the exchange rate changes significantly between the time of escrow funding and the time of the actual purchase? How do you plan to handle the situation where a change in the exchange rate requires additional funding beyond what has already been paid?
Message sent to cooldgamer:
PM'd you back. The escrow would only be for until we got up and mining to prove that we bought the hardware, not the whole groupbuy term. I don't know if this would make people feel any safer buying in, but the option should be there if possible I'm still trying to decide if if makes sense to escrow this transaction.
To assist me in the decision, what are the specific conditions of escrow release?
In particular, under what conditions would escrow be released back to the purchasers, and at what time would the escrow be released to the seller?
It seems like escrow would need to be held all the way until the end of the 90 days, right? That way partial escrow could be refunded to the buyers if the hosting provider becomes unable to provide 100% uptime (natural disaster, government intrusion, equipment failure, theft, fraud, etc).
Will the buyers only receive the mined coins, or will they also receive an equal share of the sale of the equipment at the end of the mining period? If they are receiving an equal share of the sale of the equipment, then it seems that escrow would not be able to be released until after the equipment sells. What if the equipment is lost, damaged, or otherwise fails to sell? Who is responsible for covering that loss?
To assist me in the decision, what are the specific conditions of escrow release?
In particular, under what conditions would escrow be released back to the purchasers, and at what time would the escrow be released to the seller?
It seems like escrow would need to be held all the way until the end of the 90 days, right? That way partial escrow could be refunded to the buyers if the hosting provider becomes unable to provide 100% uptime (natural disaster, government intrusion, equipment failure, theft, fraud, etc).
Will the buyers only receive the mined coins, or will they also receive an equal share of the sale of the equipment at the end of the mining period? If they are receiving an equal share of the sale of the equipment, then it seems that escrow would not be able to be released until after the equipment sells. What if the equipment is lost, damaged, or otherwise fails to sell? Who is responsible for covering that loss?
Message sent to cooldgamer:
I'm still trying to decide if if makes sense to escrow this transaction.
To assist me in the decision, what are the specific conditions of escrow release?
In particular, under what conditions would escrow be released back to the purchasers, and at what time would the escrow be released to the seller?
It seems like escrow would need to be held all the way until the end of the 90 days, right? That way partial escrow could be refunded to the buyers if the hosting provider becomes unable to provide 100% uptime (natural disaster, government intrusion, equipment failure, theft, fraud, etc).
Will the buyers only receive the mined coins, or will they also receive an equal share of the sale of the equipment at the end of the mining period? If they are receiving an equal share of the sale of the equipment, then it seems that escrow would not be able to be released until after the equipment sells. What if the equipment is lost, damaged, or otherwise fails to sell? Who is responsible for covering that loss?
To assist me in the decision, what are the specific conditions of escrow release?
In particular, under what conditions would escrow be released back to the purchasers, and at what time would the escrow be released to the seller?
It seems like escrow would need to be held all the way until the end of the 90 days, right? That way partial escrow could be refunded to the buyers if the hosting provider becomes unable to provide 100% uptime (natural disaster, government intrusion, equipment failure, theft, fraud, etc).
Will the buyers only receive the mined coins, or will they also receive an equal share of the sale of the equipment at the end of the mining period? If they are receiving an equal share of the sale of the equipment, then it seems that escrow would not be able to be released until after the equipment sells. What if the equipment is lost, damaged, or otherwise fails to sell? Who is responsible for covering that loss?
Congrats. Very interested. Your other group buy that I'm in works superb.
Why did Og say no? laziness? I won't be needing escrow anyway.
What happens after the 90 days?
He said that since it was hosted, he didn't think escrow would give much protection. He may be right, but the option will still be there for customers that feel nervous about investing.Why did Og say no? laziness? I won't be needing escrow anyway.
What happens after the 90 days?
At the end of the 90 days I sell it and the profits are split up.
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