You never get tired of complaining and whining. Just another smoothie.
Oh the irony.Let's not stop warning people about scam alt coins, should we?
Wow I'm so well known I get mentioned in other peoples' conversations lol.
Topic: OpenCoin Inc Will Debase Ripples For Wealth Transfer To Themselves (Read 4645 times)
Let's not stop warning people about scam alt coins, should we?
Wow I'm so well known I get mentioned in other peoples' conversations lol.
March 15, 2013, 10:38:07 PM
You never get tired of complaining and whining. Just another smoothie.
Oh the irony.Let's not stop warning people about scam alt coins, should we?
Wow I'm so well known I get mentioned in other peoples' conversations lol.
Isnt that great? lol
March 15, 2013, 10:29:10 PM
You never get tired of complaining and whining. Just another smoothie.
Oh the irony.Let's not stop warning people about scam alt coins, should we?
Wow I'm so well known I get mentioned in other peoples' conversations lol.
March 02, 2013, 02:53:11 AM
RFC for proposal to eliminate both debasement and Flood Risk, while keeping founders and the network itself happy:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1574081
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1574081
March 01, 2013, 10:47:33 PM
March 01, 2013, 10:46:33 PM
What you don't know is that massive currency debasement with ripple is coming. How much? 100% of the amount floated to the public.
I don't think this is quite right. More likely, the XRP distribution strategy end-game will be to use open market XRP operations (selling or not selling) maintain a target peg between XRP and some target currency.
The peg will be adjusted to strike the desired balance between the rate of new user adoption (driven by the cost of new account creation, which requires 200 XRP reserve) and having a high exchange rate in the target currency.
Once the market for XRP is liquid (which it will be), it is a fairly trivial exercise to compute the corresponding demand curves with respect to price. Optimizing the calculation of the XRP peg to maximize revenue through the sale of XRP can be accomplished with reasonable precision.
March 01, 2013, 10:44:15 PM
Hence XRP are valuable.
March 01, 2013, 10:35:52 PM
If there is no concern about running out, people won't mind giving up their excess XRP for a pittance, meaning spammers can acquire those XRP and use them to spam for a pittance as well. It's not like there is a happy medium. Pick any actual price and it becomes obvious. If XRP cost $0.000001 on the market that's a million spams for a dollar - too cheap to prevent spam. Hence spammers will bid up the price until it is no longer worth it for them. This works the same way even if there are a quadrillion XRP.
Any way you slice it, 1 XRP represents the ability to spam one time, and hence will tend toward the market price of however much the ability to spam once is worth to a spammer (as a bare minimum).
Spamming one time won't do anything. It takes hundreds to have any significant effect.Any way you slice it, 1 XRP represents the ability to spam one time, and hence will tend toward the market price of however much the ability to spam once is worth to a spammer (as a bare minimum).
The type of spam we're trying to protect against is meaningless transactions that clog the network and block legitimate transactions. And it doesn't matter what the cost is, so long as it is non-zero. For an attacker to prevent your transaction from getting through, he must pay a higher fee for each of his transactions trying to clog you than you are willing to put behind that one single important transaction. It makes no difference if that's .00001 XRP or 50 XRP.
When the network is overloaded, the transaction fee is "bid up" to accommodate the load. Those with important transactions can just raise the fee they pay. Those with unimportant transactions can just wait it out. It just has to be something with some non-zero value or that an attacker will eventually run out of (or have to pay for).
March 01, 2013, 10:24:47 PM
200 XRP = 20,000,000 transactions. Do you think you'll run out?
If there is no concern about running out, this cannot serve as spam prevention. You can't have it both ways.
If there is no concern about running out, people won't mind giving up their excess XRP for a pittance, meaning spammers can acquire those XRP and use them to spam for a pittance as well. It's not like there is a happy medium. Pick any actual price and it becomes obvious. If XRP cost $0.000001 on the market that's a million spams for a dollar - too cheap to prevent spam. Hence spammers will bid up the price until it is no longer worth it for them. This works the same way even if there are a quadrillion XRP.
Any way you slice it, 1 XRP represents the ability to spam one time, and hence will tend toward the market price of however much the ability to spam once is worth to a spammer (as a bare minimum).
March 01, 2013, 07:10:58 PM
As long as the source code is closed you have no idea whether the developers can simply print more coins out like the federal reserve.
March 01, 2013, 02:32:36 PM
I don't understand the drama as well.
Ripple is a payment system, designed to effectively route payments across the network. It look like the next logical step in the evolution of payments, unlike Bitcoin which is completely different and was more of a revolution.
Why the hell care about these XRP if you only need them to make payments in other currencies? Like there are no other currencies to invest in.
I'll only be watching Ripple evolve as a payment system.
Ripple is a payment system, designed to effectively route payments across the network. It look like the next logical step in the evolution of payments, unlike Bitcoin which is completely different and was more of a revolution.
Why the hell care about these XRP if you only need them to make payments in other currencies? Like there are no other currencies to invest in.
I'll only be watching Ripple evolve as a payment system.
March 01, 2013, 01:53:00 PM
It's not spam prevention, it's spam-attack effectiveness limitation. "Concern" about running out for a normal user is absolutely different than "impossibility" of running out for an attacker.
Eventually, either new Ripple users will have to "buy" an account to participate, or else spammers can cheaply make new accounts and use the XRPs inside to spam the network.
Like ZB said you can't have it both ways.
March 01, 2013, 01:51:33 PM
It's not spam prevention, it's spam-attack effectiveness limitation. "Concern" about running out for a normal user is absolutely different than "impossibility" of running out for an attacker.
Eventually, either new Ripple users will have to "buy" an account to participate, or else spammers can cheaply make new accounts and use the XRPs inside to spam the network.
Like ZB said you can't have it both ways.
March 01, 2013, 01:50:23 PM
200 XRP = 20,000,000 transactions. Do you think you'll run out?
If there is no concern about running out, this cannot serve as spam prevention. You can't have it both ways.
March 01, 2013, 12:32:02 PM
So the final word is that they do have value and are scarce (otherwise cannot be traded on a market).
March 01, 2013, 12:22:44 PM
You're engaging in doublethink, believing two mutually contradicting conclusions at the same time. If the supply is increased enough not to be scarce anymore, it must for the very same reason be useless for spam prevention. There is simply no way around this. Thus the claim that XRP are for spam prevention is either misguided or deliberately deceptive.
At now I understood that there are other fees on the network.Fees are higher as the network lags / have less clients/servers. (I hope that some devs correct me if I'm wrong)
So the users want to have lower fees and/or lower spam. Ripple users need to have more servers/client and/or scarse XRP enough to avoid spam BUT still available/cheaper for common users/transactions.
As I understood the consensus system will be moved from this market (supply and demand)
I'll wait for a better and(if) convincing explaination from JoelKatz.
March 01, 2013, 12:15:38 PM
You're engaging in doublethink, believing two mutually contradicting conclusions at the same time. If the supply is increased enough not to be scarce anymore, it must for the very same reason become useless for spam prevention. There is simply no way around this.
Thus the claim that XRP are just worthless chits for spam prevention is either misguided or deliberately deceptive.
Thus the claim that XRP are just worthless chits for spam prevention is either misguided or deliberately deceptive.
March 01, 2013, 12:11:02 PM
If there is no concern about running out, this cannot serve as spam prevention. You can't have it both ways.
If there will be a high demand, I mean ... too high, than the consensus system will come to help by adding as many decimals as needed to make XRP avvailable again to common users. March 01, 2013, 12:06:44 PM
200 XRP = 20,000,000 transactions. Do you think you'll run out?
If there is no concern about running out, this cannot serve as spam prevention. You can't have it both ways.
Yes, no one can get scammed as long as OpenCoin doesn't secretly try to profit by selling into the open market, but it is not a matter of being scammed; it is a matter of whether people will want to support such a centrally controlled currency. If they don't, this co-opting of Ripple could easily set the project back a few years. That is irking.
March 01, 2013, 12:03:13 PM
I agree. I don't understand the outrage here. No one can get "scammed" if they just USE the XRP for transactions instead of trying to cash out for a few bitcents. 200 XRP = 20,000,000 transactions. Do you think you'll run out?
If your only problem was having to pay for it, then don't pay for it. Ask for 200 to start an account. If no one will don't give it to you, then opt out. Problem solved.
I agree If your only problem was having to pay for it, then don't pay for it. Ask for 200 to start an account. If no one will don't give it to you, then opt out. Problem solved.
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