Topic: [**OPEN**]R2B:HashFast + Host, Dbl. HashRate Upgrade, $43, 10-13GH/s MPP - page 15. (Read 35751 times)

Received a PM from a new co-op member. This is this person's first Group Buy after giving up on solo mining. 3 more shares reserved! Thank you and welcome aboard!

29 shares available. 9 more shares need to be reserved before we go to actual sales.

This co-operative is now up to 18 members at the moment with: four admitted IT pros included two Network Engineers (one former NE), and two Electrical Engineers (jungle_dave's other career besides being a former Network Engineer, and absolute rock bottom miner hosting/management fees.

Updated: added another reservation from post #223. 28 shares available. 8 more shares to go for sales to begin.

Another page update: 5 more share reservations from Commandermk! Thanks and welcome aboard!

No problem. I would caution however that for the next few months in-hand ASIC hardware is still going to sell for a premium and that if you're waiting for in-hand stock besides AM that ships tomorrow, we all may be waiting for a while.

Received a PM from another interested member. 3 more shares reserved! Thank you and welcome aboard!

29 shares available. 9 more shares need to be reserved before we go to actual shares.

Being bored has never been one of my problems, LOL 

I think I will have to wait and see someone actually get lucky and make money with ASIC's for me to change my mind at this point.

I really do think that the market (people buying ASIC's) need to take a real beating until they realize they need to stop buying expensive equipment and mining....

That's when I'll step in.  I estimate this flash of brilliance will hit the ASIC buying community around January / February, and that's when I'm going to swoop in (I'll join you if you're doing this still at that time )





As the saying goes, BUY when there's blood in the water, BUY when everyone else is selling. BTC

jungle_dave summed it up very well (I hope your KnC(s) start shipping soon) and Andrew, you hit the nail on the head; all we can do is look at charts at this point. We also have to remember that out past 3 months into the future, any projections we can do start looking crystal ball-ish. Us miners *hope* the crazy growth will level out soon but it may not be until Spring. It could turn out that this crazy new growth is the norm and it *could get even worse* and in a few years we could all end up laughing about the relatively slow network growth of the fall/winter of 2013, when compared to future norms.

However, if you're willing to trust this crystal ball & look at those charts on TGB, 90%+ of the returns are made by that 6-7 month mark: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/9bf8dae935

This assumes a January 1, 2014 start date which is being optimistic. You'll note that the profit for this miner is made by the 5th month using these projections w/ ultra cheap electricity, another advantage of doing a Group Buy with me, and actually shows that the miner should probably be sold at the *five month* window instead of 6-7 because returns diminish considerably but the unit may still have higher resale value (being in-hand; there *still* could be a shortage of in-hand hardware if the mining market continues to expand in size and diversity).

Where we could run into issues is the same thing that bedevils any GB: slow delivery from mfgs. The delivery could be on January 30/31 for this CTII & it would still end up being a January delivery with none of the benefits of running for the whole month of January. That's how small the margin of error has gotten.

Even with amazingly low 4 cent kWh electricity, a Bitmine 500GH/s in December *still* shows a loss: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/9675b58987

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Most people have done their homework on these GBs & come to their own conclusion whether to pass or proceed. Taking off my salesman hat for a minute, which is not the usual role for a GB Coordinator at this point: It appears to me if you're using these projections as a guide, one shouldn't even mine! You should just buy & hold like many people have voted with their wallets this month: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/poll-sept-2013-asic-miner-survey-291775

However, these Group Buys are for those that think that pure buy & hold is plain boring even if it's estimated to give the best returns compared to mining at the moment. One thing to keep in mind about the mining calculators we all use: they're all just algorithms, and while algorithms help rule and control the world around us, they're only as good as the data, rules, and models that you build into them. These algorithms can only estimate for factors such as future network growth & plain ole luck favored with math: like BTCGuild getting 6 discoveries in a row in the same day (150BTC on those ones alone).

Group Buys are good for getting the very best values (at cost in my Group Buy's case) and hedging your bets by spreading your bets among what you think are several strong contenders as far as mfgs. *and* GB Coordinators.

For myself, I Buy & Hold & do dollar cost averaging twice a month on BTC coin purchases but I also have pre-orders in with BFL (2 Jallys; ebay sold & funds applied to HF), 1/4th of a HashFast Baby Jet (Round 1 Group Buy), a couple of 2-2.7GH/s USB thumbs from Barntech, and a couple of shares (so far) in what will likely be a Cointerra or Bitmine unit...because I'm one of those that think pure Buy & Hold is boring while still practicing the general benefits. I also own shares in AM as mentioned and 13 shares in the mcxNOW exchange that pays interest on deposited BTC and fee payouts for all activities on the exchange.

I also love arbitrage and serving as a trusted middleman as a means to make money or BTC *from* the Bitcoin phenomena. I also have a Feb. 22 $30K rig pre-order worth 1.5TH/s for sale as an ebay conduit for a forum member in Canada: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ASIC-Bitforce-Mini-Rig-Bitcoin-Miner-Butterfly-Labs-3x500GH-s-Feb-22-2013-/130993541777?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e7fd2d291

I may have to drop the price for it but I'm starting it off at that price. I'm obviously not your lawyer or your financial adviser, but I'm using this ebay auction, and my BTC related investments, as examples that there's tons of ways to skin a cat in this new BTC economy besides buy & hold or solo-mining.

I've been partial to the Cointerra ever since I saw it. 

Looking at the charts, it does seem to be the best bet. But, I'm a little apprehensive because of the tsunami of ASIC's hitting homes in the next 1-3 months.

Compliments on Bobsags setup!!


Research is showing me that Cointerra is a better bet at the moment, that said I do like the upgradability of Bitmine. The question is how much for the upgrade mods and how much juice will they really use?
If we could get a Bitmine rig upgraded to 2 TH/s in Jan. 2014, for under $6000 it starts to make sense.

At the moment Bitmine asks $ 14,999 for 2 TH/s (not so good).
Cointerra (IV) $6000 promises 2 TH/s in January at a much better $3 a GH/s.
Even with the worst predictions in Difficulty we have a good chance of making a bit of profit.

Im starting to feel bad about all the KnC shares I bought. Its not looking good for ROI at the moment, but thats life and a bit of the risk we all take in this game.
 
At the moment it looks like cointerra IV is the the best choice IMHO.
Any thoughts on that?

 

Understood partially, apparently I'm a little confused.

If the miners will be sold at 6-7 month mark, when is ROI achieved? 4 months in? 5 months in?


Can you please put an estimate profit as you see it? You seem to know your stuff and your guess is better than mine at this point.

Hi Andrew,

Thank you! I try hard to provide a great value at the lowest possible costs and lowest cost miner host fees.

Expected return per share? Honestly, your guess is as good as mine! We can play with calculators from BitcoinX and The Genesis Block all day long, but those are just estimations roughly grounded on future network difficulty changes. We all hope to make a profit but if things go sour, well at least risk is shared and any refunds requests will be handled as promptly as possible. We also hope to sell the unit(s) at the 6-7 month mark to recoup investment costs and split the proceeds among owners.

We do know that from user FCTaiChi's hard work that the current #1 and #2 pre-order options as far as estimated returns are CoinTerra IIs and IVs. Group Buys are meant for those miners trying to get access to the best values at the lowest prices and are hoping to hedge their bets across multiple strong bets.

Shall I put you down for a soft reservation for 1 share?

===

Additional info from a PM sent to another interested potential Group Buyer:

Hi XXXXX,

Thank you for saying that you have no problem trusting me! I hope you don't trust any ole person that comes along. Just kidding.    

In this Group Buy, 1 share worth $125USD for a 500GH/s Bitmine Coincraft unit would be worth 1/40th or 12.5GH/s of HashRate to be delivered in Late December/Early January. For comparison's sake, an ASICminer blade available and capable of 10.7GH/s is currently priced at about $650 before delivery costs.*

If the co-operative decides to vote for Cointerra when 20 shares are reserved, 1 share would instead be worth $100USD for a 1TH/s CTII or 25GH/s of HashRate to be delivered in Late January/Early February.

[*Disclaimer: I'm an ASICminer shareholder of 1.14 shares; John K. is currently holding my shares]

What is your expected return per share?

I am interested and so far your GB looks good.

If you like my writing and ruminations of an amateur historian/IT Specialist that's successfully benefited from personally and professionally investing in new technologies my entire life, please read my thoughts in the Custom Hardware forum top thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3154478

This PM below (with editing corrections) contains snippets from a PM sent to someone already soft reserving 4 Bitmine chips and unfamiliar with the GB ownership process and payout guarantees from vetted miners and miner hosts. I'm giving him or her additional Bitmine options that he/she could switch his soft reservation for, even if that includes switching his or her soft reservation to Bitmine's official chip reseller: zefir, if he/she wants. I *love* customer service and educating others if they're willing to listen to me blather on, eheh:

Hi XXXXXXXXXX,


If you participate in my Group Buy or any GB on this forum by a vetted GB Coordinator, you get access to the risks and benefits of owning a partial share of the best values as far as stock manufacturer hardware from various manufacturers. If you're buying hardware, the very best values are only available at $5K and above but they're out of the range of most miners, but we can band together to get purchasing power that gives us access to the best hardware with the lowest possible costs.

For example, if you owned one-fourth of this Group Buy, which would be: 10 shares at $100-125 ea. (final price dependent on group majority weighted vote) you would own 1/4th of any potential Bitcoin earned as well as 1/4th of the voting power in the Co-operative. So if the miner(s) earned 100 BTC in a month, your quarter share would be 25 BTC paid out that month. This is before hosting/management fees are applied to shares, which average 3% & above, but are only 2.75% in this particular GB because I have a mesh network of vetted miner hosts in multiple states in the US mainland and access to potential vetted hosting in Europe and the Middle East.

=====================================================================

Some benefits of a Group Buy with optional Escrow Protection at a small additional fee (so a 3rd party holds funds and does post-sales dispute resolution):

- Access to the very best values (wholesale and/or volume discounts) in ASIC pre-order hardware not usually available to regular miners like us. This is about the only way people can keep up with the rising difficulty if you're just an average person that's not rich.
- Shares available *at cost*, as if you were buying it yourself; no markups whatsoever to your share of ownership of the miner(s).
- Lowest professional hosting prices anywhere, one can search the entire internet and there's no better hosting prices then in this Group Buy and/or through bobsag3's professional service.
- Equipment run in world class hosting site(s) with backup sites available thanks to my mesh network of miner hosts by bobsag3, BeepBeep2, and possibly kaz911 if being voted to be hosted in Europe or the Middle East and with kaz's permission.
- Remote administration by me: a Pro Network Engineer at a Research Lab, and a 2nd former Pro EE/Network Engineer: jungle_dave
- Local administration by one or more IT professional experts: bobsag3, most likely in this case.
- Introductory rate for first contract with World's best miner hosting fees. No hosting prices are lower than this, bar none.
- Business insurance upon delivery and during outbound shipments of hardware.
- 24/7 security with 12 motion triggered IP cameras sent to send live video feeds to bobsag3 if he wins the hosting vote
- My brother is a Police Lt. in the same state as bobsag3, so I should be able to cut through a lot of red tape and get quick help from Law Enforcement, if necessary. He also kinda sorta knows what the heck a Bitcoin is because I explained it to him (and BFL operating near him) during his last Hawaii vacation.
- We intend to sell this equipment on ebay at about the 6-7 month mark where my wife & I have a 162 perfect rating built up over 10 years as a buyer/seller on ebay. 90%+ of the projected one year returns should have been made by this 6-7 month mark, if you check The Genesis Block Mining Calculator. Most of the returns will have been returned from running the equipment over one year (because of rising difficulty) but we should still be able to recover some of the original purchase costs which will be split up among co-op members after ebay fees.

How are you guaranteed that I'll pay out every 2 weeks? If you believe that fraud or illegal behavior has occured, you just need to contact John K. Escrow [user: John (John K.) ] , jungle_dave, or BeepBeep2 with this information so they can contact legal authorities if necessary in which I lose my good paying job and my security clearance which lets me work on neat projects. I'm all about ultra low costs for Bitcoin Miners, honesty, and transparency of process, if you read through my Group Buys I perform. For major decisions: We are a true democracy as a co-op; I didn't even vote in both major votes we performed. No equipment gets bought, or shipped without the majority will of the co-operative votes.

Please see the links in my signature: "Logic of Group Buys and Escrow" and "My 2nd Group Buy" for more info. Please let me know if you still have any questions after reading through. We need to get to 20 shares reserved (at $100-125 ea.) before we start doing actual sales. Keep in mind: these GBs are the best values and the earliest possible access to these market best values (which is why we all participate in these Group Buys in the first place) especially if there's a vetted hosting site near the manufacturer for earliest operations.

===

BTW, these 2 manufacturers have some sort of late delivery buyer protection, although the protection isn't as comprehensive as HashFast. If it's really late, we can all ask for a refund if the majority want this. I can't guarantee delivery but I will do my best to get you a refund at a small restocking fee of 1.5% if you need access to the funds in an emergency. If, for example, you somehow own half or more of the miner, I may need a little time to pay you the full refund (2-4 weeks) but you *will* get refunded at any time up until the miner ships.

After that, you'd be kind of silly to ask for a refund because the miner payouts which should occur shortly are the whole reason why we're patient with Group Buys of pre-order hardware.  Besides, having had time to replenish Bitcoins over time, the other co-op members would probably jump on the chance to get more pre-order share pricing on in-hand or near in-hand ASIC hardware.

Aloha!
DZ

I hear ya Philip! No worries, you're already helping us out big time on the Baby Jet, PSU/batts, *and* fans!

jungle_dave & firsttimeuser: Nice!

Thanks and welcome aboard again! LOL, I had no idea I was doing a GB 2 days ago but now seems to be a natural time to do it since everything's squared away with our HF miner except for my payment to Philip for PSU/batts.

So...32/40 shares available! These are soft reservations up until we get to 20 shares left. so: 12 more soft reservations to go before we go to actual sales.

Related to hosting: As his online marketing/management agent (Full Disclaimer) for his hosting services, I've seen the inside of the building bobsag3 photographed, and it seems to be well suited for expanded miner hosting with 400A available and 120A backup generator all right next to Google Fiber. He's gone the full step to running it as a business so he won't be an amateur for much longer & he may not be able to hold prices this low for too long.

=====

Also I'd like to open up Cointerra II as an option: with Bitmine, unless it's hosted in Europe (not out of realm of possibility since kaz911 has hosting there) there's going to be a shipping delay having a unit shipped from Europe. Looking at Giorgio's latest news, if we were to purchase today, it would ship mid to late December.

We'll vote between the two when we get to 20 soft reservations. So the pre-order decision becomes:

1. Bitmine Coincraft @ 500GH/s (upgradeable) at $4249 most likely at the beginning of January OR
2. Cointerra II @ 1000GH/s (uknown upgradeability) at $3500 most likely at the end of January or beginning of February

Option 2 would have a further out delivery date but lower share price by the appropriate amount: $100 share with Cointerra vs. $125 with Bitmine (that's one nice thing of pricing in USD for a GB; no currency volatility to deal with, just the steady and normal depressing, crushing power of inflation with fiat*).

Option 1 has the possibility of being hosted in the Netherlands or UAE in the Middle East to minimize shipping if we can get kaz's permission. Just putting out options there as part of my job.   Don't forget, the Bitmine unit *we know* is upgradeable while this isn't clear with Cointerra.

I'm fine with either option and will vote last w/ tiebreaker vote, if necessary.


*[OT: Did you know a single USD from 1913 is only worth 5 cents today in purchasing power? (source: Jeffrey Tucker) Is it any wonder we're interested in (so far) deflationary cryptocurrency?]

I have to resist all preorders until at least one starts paying me.  I have four or five.

Preorders are my addiction now. This is fifth.. (none in hand)
Do you know a good doctor guys? lol jk

I am in for 2 and maybe-maybe 2 more.

O my..

I promise you guys will love the hosting facility.

Count me in for 2 shares DZ, Once again spot on GB !!
Im late as usual

After talking to folks via PM: The likely target is this November 500GH/s Coincraft 28nm unit from Bitmine: https://bitmine.ch/?product=coincraft-rig

unless someone has a better idea/value. After shipping, taxes, + UPS unit/battery it should come out to about $5K (with me having to chip in extra for UPS/battery). These shares are priced *at cost* in other words. IMHO: You can't beat these share prices unless you're willing to pay people to join your Group Buy.      

1 more share soft reserved via PM by an anonymous gentleman.

36 shares left!

Nice! Thanks Bob! I offered Bob the opportunity run his own GB from within this thread but he declined. I didn't think I was doing a GB this morning and I'm busy helping people but I still started getting bored hahah. Besides it'd be a shame to not take fuller advantage of the co-op we've all built.

Possible target machines are Cointerra and Bitmine in the $5K range.

Ok, that's a start. I'll put myself down for 2 soft reservations so...

37 shares out of 40 left!

1 share = $125 at this point and are meant to be *soft* reservations. If we get to 20 shares we'll begin actual sales and optional escrow via BTCrow. BTC payment will be valued at whatever BTC value equals $125 at the time of actual sale.

So, for example: BTC Share price would be 1BTC *if* 1 BTC equals $125 at time of sale.

Ill thow my hat in for support, and some shares if I can find any more BTC lol.