Over the Counter (OTC) Cryptocurrency Trading - Explained in Details.

wwzsocki

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Today even more trades are made on the OTC market, so I will wake up this thread, and maybe there will be somebody willing to discuss this subject further.

Quote

What is generally agreed is that daily OTC volumes for cryptocurrency are much larger than exchange-traded volume, but given the market’s opaqueness it’s impossible to be entirely sure. Further confusing things are claims that crypto exchanges have been artificially inflating their disclosed volumes.

https://www.finextra.com/blogposting/16628/otc-crypto-market---at-a-glance

Additionally. this thread was just translated into the German language, so this is probably the best time to refresh the topic, despite almost a year, it is still completely valid.

Here link to the translation: Der Over-The-Counter (OTC) Kryptohandel - im Detail erklärt.

wwzsocki

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Quote from: FanEagle on June 15, 2019, 02:01:53 AM

What is the difference between Dex or P2P and OTC? ...

I think the main difference is that there don't have to be a third party in OTC trading. Of course, there are OTC desks and services but still the majority of deals is done P2P.

Quote from: gentlemand on June 16, 2019, 12:50:51 PM

..I would class an OTC trade as having a broker/dealer who matches the buyer to the seller and negotiates the deal. They'll have clients they can tap on both sides.

This is a good explanation of OTC desks and services. I hope this answers your question.

Julunguul

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Quote from: wwzsocki on March 26, 2019, 04:47:09 AM

How are the buyers and sellers finding each other?
• Through private, public and broker specific chatrooms:
  - Broker hosted secure chat rooms.
  - IRC chatrooms #bitcoin-otc.
  - Skype chatrooms (hosted by Cumberland).
  - Telegram, even LinkedIn (according to Forbes) - six figure trades are common.
• Through OTC Brokers
  - iTBit OTC.
  - HiveEx OTC.

Usually OTC on-exchange also uses the exchange platform to become a chatroom, but should third parties should also participate in this chat ?
It is better to use OTC on-exchange because we also have to consider risks.

gentlemand

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Quote from: justdimin on June 16, 2019, 12:40:01 PM

Well, if this is the over the counter method everyone talks about does that mean localbitcoin is an over the counter helper website?

Localbitcoins and similar are P2P. Those places are nothing more than platforms to find deals.

I would class an OTC trade as having a broker/dealer who matches the buyer to the seller and negotiates the deal. They'll have clients they can tap on both sides.

justdimin

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Well, if this is the over the counter method everyone talks about does that mean localbitcoin is an over the counter helper website?

Because, if that is the case then there are still millions of people using over the counter methods even with local exchanges exist because they prefer to stay anon and only let one person know they are trading whereas if you trade on exchanges yourself then you are either giving you KYC because they ask for it or you are allowing them to watch your movements as well, I am not against it since it could potentially help get rid of people that are doing bad things but it is also annoying for people who are not after anything bad or illegal.

In the end I would suggest checking out localbitcoins to anyone who wants to do over the counter trading, it is the best way possible for everyone to stay anon and still get a good price.

FanEagle

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What is the difference between Dex or P2P and OTC? I am not really familiar with the differences but in my country there are places called exchanges where you give them one currency and they give you another currency, like regular exchange but as a store instead of digital.

There you can give them bitcoin and they will give you any currency they have on their list, or vice versa where they give you bitcoin. So, I doubt that is considered OTC by your standards and called something else but I don't know why, over the counter is where you literally exchange bitcoins without digital exchange and no deposits or withdraws required, you just give one currency and they give another currency without involving a third party. If anyone explains the differences of OTC/P2P/DEX, that would be awesome.

wwzsocki

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Quote from: LeGaulois on May 13, 2019, 12:08:25 PM

...I wonder why the site has a daily limit and a user needs to be KYC verified for +$10k daily. Weird for a DEX...

As you see I have only quoted another member which shared this information in our local community.

TBH I haven't checked them because I trust that what is written is the truth.

From what I know this is an OTC market on based on Komodo with such limits to bypass KYC.

LeGaulois

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@wwzsocki Excuse me but I visited the website and it's a decentralized exchange based on Komodo, not an OTC broker. You can only swap between cryptos. Ameritrade, Fidelity, are OTC brokers.
I wonder why the site has a daily limit and a user needs to be KYC verified for +$10k daily. Weird for a DEX...

wwzsocki

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Quote from: gentlemand on May 10, 2019, 05:16:57 AM

...No way would ANY reputable OTC broker go without KYC no matter where they are in the world. If their own country didn't nail them to the wall, America certainly would.

Here is another post from member @Cygan in the Polish thread:

Quote from: cygan on May 12, 2019, 03:44:08 AM

od dzisiaj online: Barterlly https://app.barterlly.io/

tez jeden projekt od KMD deweloperow

tutaj mozesz znalesc czysty handel otc dla każdego. kyc niepotrzebne do 10.000 €/dziennie

https://medium.com/@dwy_15555/barterlly-from-an-idea-to-a-journey-e882fc12b0a6

Translation of the most important part:

Quote

tutaj mozesz znalesc czysty handel otc dla każdego. kyc niepotrzebne do 10.000 €/dziennie

Here you can find pure OTC trade for everyone. KYC not needed up to 10.000 Euro a day.

wwzsocki

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Quote from: gentlemand on May 10, 2019, 05:16:57 AM

Google translate is struggling there but that reads like P2P or a Dex, not OTC.

No way would ANY reputable OTC broker go without KYC no matter where they are in the world. If their own country didn't nail them to the wall, America certainly would.

Ok I will translate it for you:

Quote

na tym otc jest kyc niepotrzebne i jak sie niemyle ogulnie na otc niepotrzeba kyc przechodzic.

At this OTC service, KYC is not needed and if I am not wrong generally at OTC services KYC is not a requirement.

This the most important sentence and later he describes the transaction he has made at this particular OTC service, step by step.

gentlemand

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Quote from: wwzsocki on May 10, 2019, 05:13:38 AM

We are actually talking about this subject in our local section where I have translated version of this thread (Pozagiełdowy Handel Kryptowalutą (OTC) - Wyjaśniony w Szczegółach.)
One member just posted about his experience with a professional OTC service. I asked him a few additional questions about KYC and other requirements and he answered that KYC was not needed at all. I have heard such opinions too before and that is why I think that you are wrong and there are established OTC services without KYC requirement too.

Google translate is struggling there but that reads like P2P or a Dex, not OTC.

No way would ANY reputable OTC broker go without KYC no matter where they are in the world. If their own country didn't nail them to the wall, America certainly would.

wwzsocki

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Quote from: gentlemand on April 03, 2019, 06:49:26 PM

...Try being anonymous with a professional OTC outfit. They'll laugh in your face. They may well be more demanding than an exchange in terms of ID and proof of funds. Obviously it's different if you're selling to some asshole on Telegram but that's p2p not OTC...

We are actually talking about this subject in our local section where I have translated version of this thread (Pozagiełdowy Handel Kryptowalutą (OTC) - Wyjaśniony w Szczegółach.)
One member just posted about his experience with a professional OTC service. I asked him a few additional questions about KYC and other requirements and he answered that KYC was not needed at all. I have heard such opinions too before and that is why I think that you are wrong and there are established OTC services without KYC requirement too.

Here is my discussion about OTC services from the polish thread, please translate using google:

Quote from: cygan on May 09, 2019, 08:55:19 AM

Quote from: wwzsocki on May 09, 2019, 08:13:55 AM

Quote from: cygan on May 08, 2019, 04:02:18 AM

ja do dzisiaj tylko z jednej otc platformy koszystalem i to byla: https://dexstats.info/onboarding.php...

Musiałęś przejść KYC, żeby móc korzystać z tego serwisu? Jakie opłaty? Jak wyglądała sama transakcja? Kupowałeś lub sprzedawałeś im, czy dopiero na stronie zasygnalizowałeś, że jesteś zainteresowany jakimś altem (kupno/sprzedaż) i za jakiś czas dostałeś ofertę, czy wygląda to inaczej?

na tym otc jest kyc niepotrzebne i jak sie niemyle ogulnie na otc niepotrzeba kyc przechodzic.
na tym otc co tobie chodzi mozna "tylko" kupic ARRR sprzedajac KMD.
to wyglada tak:

1. musisz miec pewna ilosc KMD na agama wallet (portfel projektu Komodo)
2. na agama wallet musisz dodac kryptowalute ARRR i automatycznie dostajesz tez swoj wlasny ARRR-adres
3. na https://dexstats.info/onboarding.php wydzisz aktualna kwote ile KMD musisz zaplacic zeby 7.77 lub 77.7 ARRR kupic
4. jak wybrales to i jak wpisales twoj ARRR adres w gorne dolne miejsce, naciszkasz nastepnie na zielony button (get aboard! start exchange)
5. automatycznie pokazuje ci sie KMD adres gdzie masz ta kwote za 7.77 lub 77.7 ARRR wyslac. i ta cala transakcje robisz przez agama wallet
6. po 3 sekundach widzisz na otc platformie ze transakcja jest wykonana i przyjeta
7. nawed nie po minucie masz twoje ARRR na swojim agama portfelu

wwzsocki

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Quote from: vit05 on April 23, 2019, 10:12:56 PM

I disagree with your points. At no time is anonymity guaranteed. On many occasions the exact opposite is required.
Often the purchase is broken into several price ranges. Particularly when the market is unstable.
The risk of being hacked is as great as in any other negotiation. Since the biggest risk is always on your own computer.
There is no instant purchase on the OTC. In fact, the negotiations are much more complex and involve a long conversation

Can you please show some examples? I can agree with you if you show some proofs.

I can understand that the OTC market is evolving and there are different types of trades which I haven't mention.

That is why I posted this article to discuss OTC markets because there is not much info to find about this subject.

I am interested in this topic because wanted to sell some tokens outside of the exchange and that is why I explored this subject.

What you have read is what I found on the net and my personal experience. Of course, I can be wrong too.

vit05

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Quote from: cybersofts on April 23, 2019, 06:08:07 PM

I think there are many advantages of buying bitcoin through over-the-counter trading desk such as:

- Full anonymity of the buyer.
- Buy a huge amount of bitcoin at the same price
- The risk of getting hacked is almost zero compared to the exchanges.
- Instant purchase, there is no placing orders and wait for the price to fall before you can buy.
- The best thing about over-the-counter trading desk is you can always have a peace of mind in terms of security and price volatility.

Though the bitcoin price is a little bit high at OTCs, but you can get the advantage of buying a huge amount of bitcoins at the same price with no volatility.
The over-the-counter trading desks help a lot in tackling the bitcoin price volatility. Imagine, the whales buying 200,000 bitcoins on the exchanges, uhh! Grin

I disagree with your points. At no time is anonymity guaranteed. On many occasions the exact opposite is required.
Often the purchase is broken into several price ranges. Particularly when the market is unstable.
The risk of being hacked is as great as in any other negotiation. Since the biggest risk is always on your own computer.
There is no instant purchase on the OTC. In fact, the negotiations are much more complex and involve a long conversation

cybersofts

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I think there are many advantages of buying bitcoin through over-the-counter trading desk such as:

- Full anonymity of the buyer.
- Buy a huge amount of bitcoin at the same price
- The risk of getting hacked is almost zero compared to the exchanges.
- Instant purchase, there is no placing orders and wait for the price to fall before you can buy.
- The best thing about over-the-counter trading desk is you can always have a peace of mind in terms of security and price volatility.

Though the bitcoin price is a little bit high at OTCs, but you can get the advantage of buying a huge amount of bitcoins at the same price with no volatility.
The over-the-counter trading desks help a lot in tackling the bitcoin price volatility. Imagine, the whales buying 200,000 bitcoins on the exchanges, uhh! Grin

wwzsocki

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Quote from: wumBowo on April 19, 2019, 06:25:51 AM

just saw ur post, and yeah i'm glad to translate your thread.
It's because at first i actually found out "OTC" things on huobi global and when i search on google it's not too clear, but then i found your thread it gives me an enough explanation.

So that's why i translated to my local language, maybe it'll be helpful for the others,too.

My text is translated for the first time and that is why I was so excited. Thanks again and feel free to translate any text of mine you want in the future.

This is true that there is not much information about the OTC market and that is why I wrote this post.

wumBowo

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Quote from: wwzsocki on April 17, 2019, 10:45:27 AM

This thread has been translated into Indonesian and published in their local section which I consider a distinction because it is my first article that has been translated into another language. Thank you @wumBowo.

[SHARE] Mengenal OTC Trading

just saw ur post, and yeah i'm glad to translate your thread.
It's because at first i actually found out "OTC" things on huobi global and when i search on google it's not too clear, but then i found your thread it gives me an enough explanation.

So that's why i translated to my local language, maybe it'll be helpful for the others,too.

Haunebu

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Damn. I knew about OTC trading before, but this pool of information is something else. Learnt a lot of stuff which I never knew before. Thank you op for translating the article. There was another thread discussing this topic just recently.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.50584092

Mind sharing your thoughts op?

wwzsocki

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This thread has been translated into Indonesian and published in their local section which I consider a distinction because it is my first article that has been translated into another language. Thank you @wumBowo.

[SHARE] Mengenal OTC Trading

wwzsocki

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Quote from: gentlemand on April 03, 2019, 06:49:26 PM

Try being anonymous with a professional OTC outfit. They'll laugh in your face. They may well be more demanding than an exchange in terms of ID and proof of funds.

I think that all depends on the size of the deal and which side of the trade you are.

Let's say you are a big miner and willing to sell 3000 BTC each quarter I assume that there is a big possibility to close the deal even with established OTC desk or service without KYC for the miner.

In such a situation OTC agent would have to provide proper KYC to the miner and run reputable service to get the deal.

As you see in my post above one of the main problems with OTC is:

Quote

If you execute through an OTC broker you need, for example, to deliver the BTC to the broker. There is no guarantee the brokers client will pay.

Additionally:

Quote

The larger the order the greater the risk of default with multiple counterparties.

Topic: Over the Counter (OTC) Cryptocurrency Trading - Explained in Details. (Read 843 times)