Overview of Bitcoin Accepting Sportsbooks (with margin/house edge comparisons) - page 6.

roosbit

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Quote from: DarkStar_ on November 01, 2018, 04:46:40 PM

Quote from: roosbit on November 01, 2018, 04:42:48 PM

-snip-

Let's say we have a simple match between two teams with no possibility of Draw. We'll call it Team A vs Team B. The probability of each team winning is 50%.
A sportsbook with a 2.56% margin will give you odds of 1.95 on each outcome. 1.95 represents a 51.28% chance of winning, when in reality it is only 50%. This is present on both sides, so the total margin is 1.28% * 2 = 2.56%.

A sportsbook with a 5.26% margin will give you odds of 1.9 on each outcome. It represents a 52.63% chance of the team winning, but the real chance of winning is only 50%.

You get what you paid for, but books with lower house edges will give you more for the same payment.

Thread makes much more sense now with the numbers game going on, and just to be clear the house edge in this case is the margin??
By the way thanks for the enlightenment

DarkStar_

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Quote from: roosbit on November 01, 2018, 04:42:48 PM

Hi Op was going through some of the posts here and two words caught my eye because this is a sportbook thread and thought the terms apply to a casino. The words in question are "commission" and "house edge", now if you can be generous to explain to me how these come in play because with bookies I get what I paid for, example bet on an inplay epl game at odds of 2.3odds and payout comes as advertised once it's declared a winning wager!

Sorry forgive me am not a pro gambler, but you can educate me.

Let's say we have a simple match between two teams with no possibility of Draw. We'll call it Team A vs Team B. The probability of each team winning is 50%.
A sportsbook with a 2.56% margin will give you odds of 1.95 on each outcome. 1.95 represents a 51.28% chance of winning, when in reality it is only 50%. This is present on both sides, so the total margin is 1.28% * 2 = 2.56%.

A sportsbook with a 5.26% margin will give you odds of 1.9 on each outcome. It represents a 52.63% chance of the team winning, but the real chance of winning is only 50%.

You get what you paid for, but books with lower house edges will give you more for the same payment.

roosbit

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Hi Op was going through some of the posts here and two words caught my eye because this is a sportbook thread and thought the terms apply to a casino. The words in question are "commission" and "house edge", now if you can be generous to explain to me how these come in play because with bookies I get what I paid for, example bet on an inplay epl game at odds of 2.3odds and payout comes as advertised once it's declared a winning wager! So were is the commission or house edge here...?

Sorry forgive me am not a pro gambler, but you can educate me.

DarkStar_

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Quote from: Rating Place on October 29, 2018, 08:09:02 PM

DarkStar- Sorry for not getting back to you on Anonibet. They are still up and running. As you will notice the margins are very high on American sports. Payouts aren't up to par with other bitcoin books.

Even though their margins are very high, on occasion they will have the best line on a side. The same occurs over at Betcoin. Even if the margin is high on a particular event, you may be able to find a line better than other books on one side and payouts are fast.

Thanks for getting back to me! Anonibet seems to have decent margins for European football. I'm still not sure whether I should add them though, given how inactive they are. They don't have particularly good margins, so I feel it might not be worth the work to add them.

I've definitely noticed for Betcoin. I do encourage people to shop for odds, but I should probably add a disclaimer somewhere that states "lowest margins doesn't always mean the best odds" somewhere.

buwaytress

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Well, just aftery update here almost a week ago, findings have changed. Only some days since, so perhaps a coincidence, but it would appear Betking at least has lowered margins even more, as DS/OP indicates.

This week alone, I've seen even or even better odds on BK compared to Rush on major games for Over/Unders as well as for the significant underdog. Previous bets always on Rush with best margins for long odds... So maybe this is no longer the case.

@Frue yeah definitely more tinkering with odds on the maajor games... And more frequent/volatile odds on them. Exotic pickings hardly move odds until closer to match.

DarkStar_

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Here's a WTA comparison. Unfortunately, Cloudbet didn't offer odds for the major markets of this event, so they were not included. If someone sees them with working pre-live odds, it would be nice if you could send me an archive of the page so they can be added. Not averaged for now because only one WTA final is going on at the moment.

WTA:

\|	Sportsbook	\|	Match Winner Margin	\|	Over/Under Margin	\|	Game HandicapMargin	\|
\|	Betcoin.ag	\|	4.76%	\|	5.34%	\|	3.91%	\|
\|	BetKing	\|	6.25%	\|	5.87%	\|	5.82%	\|
\|	BitcoinRush	\|	2.07%	\|	2.59%	\|	2.56%	\|
\|	Cloudbet	\|	N/A	\|	N/A	\|	N/A	\|
\|	Jetwin	\|	10.64%	\|	N/A	\|	N/A	\|
\|	mBitCasino	\|	3.89%	\|	4.19%	\|	5.26%	\|
\|	Nitrogen	\|	3.56%	\|	4.17%	\|	3.95%	\|
\|	Sportsbet.io	\|	6.01%	\|	6.14%	\|	5.83%	\|

BitDice's sportsbook launches tomorrow. I'll try to get comparisons for them up ASAP assuming they have competitive margins.

Rating Place

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DarkStar- Sorry for not getting back to you on Anonibet. They are still up and running. As you will notice the margins are very high on American sports. Payouts aren't up to par with other bitcoin books.

Even though their margins are very high, on occasion they will have the best line on a side. The same occurs over at Betcoin. Even if the margin is high on a particular event, you may be able to find a line better than other books on one side and payouts are fast.

Goodvalony

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Unfortunately None of this bookmakers are in My country except Betking But it is a different Betking. Totally a different Betking. currently None of the Bookmakers here have any idea of adding bitcoin as a means of payment.

DarkStar_

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Quote from: FrueGreads on October 28, 2018, 02:19:47 PM

Really amazing work. Thanks for doing it. I'm sure bookies will also keep an eye on this, and this will probably generate a healthy competition among them, "forcing" them to lower their margins to be competitive, which will benefit all of us.

Thanks! So far, mBit lowered their margins for some sports (not sure if it's because of this) and BetKing + Betcoin have lowered their margins as a direct result of this thread.

Quote from: FrueGreads on October 28, 2018, 02:19:47 PM

Also, I do notice sometimes, that inside each League, popular games seem to get "different treatment/margin", and although the average margin for the entire League (let's say La Liga) could be better on a certain bookie, a popular game (let's say Barcelona vs Real Madrid) would have a better margin on another one.

This is just my impression, and I didn't do any particular work to back this up, it's just based on my impression of course, but I'm curious to know if there is any way to check this by monitoring these type of important games (top level teams, that usually generate a bigger volume of bets among users) individually?

I've looked at some of the more "interesting" games and it doesn't seem to happen for the low margin bookmakers. It might happen for more important events such as finals, but all Soccer matches are quite big. This is more evident in sports like Tennis, where Finals has lower margins than Round of 16 or whatever.

Quote from: FrueGreads on October 28, 2018, 02:19:47 PM

Any plans on adding E-Sports comparison since they are quite popular these days?

Soon™. There's a lot of E-Sports competitions though, so I'm not sure what would be a good way to offer E-Sports comparisons. Have any recommendations?

Quote from: FrueGreads on October 28, 2018, 02:19:47 PM

Edit: An overview like this but on sportsbooks promotions, or loyalty programs would also be great, but I guess that would be to much work to ask.

Promotions is something I've been meaning to do. It will come Soon™.

FrueGreads

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Really amazing work. Thanks for doing it. I'm sure bookies will also keep an eye on this, and this will probably generate a healthy competition among them, "forcing" them to lower their margins to be competitive, which will benefit all of us.

Any plans on adding E-Sports comparison since they are quite popular these days?

Also, I do notice sometimes, that inside each League, popular games seem to get "different treatment/margin", and although the average margin for the entire League (let's say La Liga) could be better on a certain bookie, a popular game (let's say Barcelona vs Real Madrid) would have a better margin on another one.

This is just my impression, and I didn't do any particular work to back this up, it's just based on my impression of course, but I'm curious to know if there is any way to check this by monitoring these type of important games (top level teams, that usually generate a bigger volume of bets among users) individually?

Edit: An overview like this but on sportsbooks promotions, or loyalty programs would also be great, but I guess that would be to much work to ask.

DarkStar_

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Quote from: bitedge on October 28, 2018, 09:50:04 AM

DarkStar_ is there a reason you did not include Anonibet? What is your opinion on them?

I'm not familiar with them and have not heard of anyone share their experiences recently. I made this post on Peeps Place's sportsbook rating thread:

Quote from: DarkStar_ on October 01, 2018, 09:31:29 PM

Anyone know what happened to Anonibet? Their promotions seemed pretty good and I was thinking of depositing, but their forum account hasn't logged on since July, hasn't posted since June 2017, and their thread seems to be filled with complaints.

Peeps, have you used or know anyone who has used Anonibet recently?

No response from anyone who recently used it. I wanted to try them myself, but I kept getting randomly logged out. I would include them if I was sure they were still operating, but I am not.

Quote from: bitedge on October 28, 2018, 09:50:04 AM

Quote from: DarkStar_ on September 29, 2018, 06:37:45 PM

BetBTC.co is another option for an exchange, except they charge a whopping 4% commission

Be aware only the winner pays commission making it equivalent to a 2% house edge, about as good as the lowest edge sportsbooks. The real problem with BetBTC is the lack of liquidity which causes slippage if you wane to make a decent size bet in a hurry.

That would be true except their Taker odds are already worse than low edge sportsbooks for the most part, so you would have to make your own odds and hope it gets matched. For example:

BetBTC on Left, BitcoinRush on Right

@1.74 becomes @1.71 after commission, @4.1 becomes @3.98 and @4.9 becomes @4.74 after commission. I'm sure there's a few games where you might come out ahead, but generally I believe Fairlay is better due to a much smaller 0.25% commission on winnings and increased liquidity.

bitedge

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DarkStar_ is there a reason you did not include Anonibet? What is your opinion on them?

Quote from: DarkStar_ on September 29, 2018, 06:37:45 PM

BetBTC.co is another option for an exchange, except they charge a whopping 4% commission

Be aware only the winner pays commission making it equivalent to a 2% house edge, about as good as the lowest edge sportsbooks. The real problem with BetBTC is the lack of liquidity which causes slippage if you wane to make a decent size bet in a hurry.

Quote from: NightSabre on October 01, 2018, 10:18:21 AM

Could you please add some detail about the territories that the sportsbooks allow? Im not sure if any of the good ones allow UK players

Yeah that is a big problem, we maintain a chart of geoblocking by bitcoin gambling operators here and it's pretty bad news for Brits. If I lived there I would use a VPN.

DarkStar_

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Bump. Been quite busy lately so haven't been able to add much, but hopefully it will be done some time this weekend. Any more things people would like to see?

DarkStar_

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I've grouped the events for other major European soccer together as there would be way too many tables otherwise. Margins for them are quite similar across each sportsbook, which is why I combined them.

Major European Soccer: (La Liga, Bundeseliga, Ligue 1 and Serie A)

\|	Sportsbook	\|	Match Winner Margin	\|	Over/Under Margin	\|	Handicap Margin	\|
\|	Betcoin.ag	\|	2.90%	\|	7.34%	\|	7.16%	\|
\|	BetKing	\|	1.96%	\|	2.63%	\|	N/A	\|
\|	BitcoinRush	\|	2.86%	\|	2.89%	\|	2.08%	\|
\|	Cloudbet	\|	3.83%	\|	5.10%	\|	3.55%	\|
\|	Jetwin	\|	8.43%	\|	5.85%	\|	5.98%	\|
\|	mBitCasino	\|	5.96%	\|	3.72%	\|	3.09%	\|
\|	Nitrogen	\|	3.36%	\|	4.22%	\|	3.60%	\|
\|	Sportsbet.io	\|	5.00%	\|	4.69%	\|	4.56%	\|

Here's a WTA comparison. Unfortunately, Cloudbet didn't offer odds for the major markets of this event, so they were not included. If someone sees them with working pre-live odds, it would be nice if you could send me an archive of the page so they can be added. Not averaged for now because only one WTA final is going on at the moment.

WTA:

\|	Sportsbook	\|	Match Winner Margin	\|	Over/Under Margin	\|	Game HandicapMargin	\|
\|	Betcoin.ag	\|	4.76%	\|	5.34%	\|	3.91%	\|
\|	BetKing	\|	6.25%	\|	5.87%	\|	5.82%	\|
\|	BitcoinRush	\|	2.07%	\|	2.59%	\|	2.56%	\|
\|	Cloudbet	\|	N/A	\|	N/A	\|	N/A	\|
\|	Jetwin	\|	10.64%	\|	N/A	\|	N/A	\|
\|	mBitCasino	\|	3.89%	\|	4.19%	\|	5.26%	\|
\|	Nitrogen	\|	3.56%	\|	4.17%	\|	3.95%	\|
\|	Sportsbet.io	\|	6.01%	\|	6.14%	\|	5.83%	\|

BitDice's sportsbook launches tomorrow. I'll try to get comparisons for them up ASAP assuming they have competitive margins.

DarkStar_

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bump

buwaytress

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This thread is getting even better by the week. So good to check back and see that for once, bookies are comparing their margins against competitors and lowering what used to be extremely high margins on some lines.

Full disclosure, I used to bet only with BitcoinRush, but since coming to know about BetKing's odds on the big European games (football/soccer), I'm spreading my bets across the 2. My findings after almost a month (loosely) comparing on both:

1. In general, BetKing always has better odds than BitcoinRush on popular European games, when choosing winners. However, they offer few, if any, lines on the lower leagues, friendlies, U23s, women or even Continental competition like African, South American, Asian, CONCACAF etc. - and when they do, Rush typically beats them hands down.
2. Over/Unders for goals, cards, corners are usually the other way round, higher odds on Rush. So a simple 2-leg parlay on over/unders can give you 5-8% advantage.
3. Long odds on lesser leagues are usually in your favour if you choose Rush so if I back the underdog, it's almost always on Rush. I don't have enough stats but once you go about 4/1 or higher, you'll likely find Rush with even 2% higher winnings. At around 8/1 or more, it can even hit 3% or more higher winnings.

DarkStar_

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mBitCasino seems to be matching (or even beating!) BitcoinRush in margins for NFL and NBA. Always nice to see a book become more competitive. (they were sitting around 8% margins before this).

Quote from: Cloudbet on October 23, 2018, 04:52:45 AM

I'll try and do the comparisons more if I have time (and we are winning the odds race Wink

)

I tend to post in the sports discussion threads though as I don't want to hijack Darkstar's thread with promotional stuff.

For what sports? Based on my comparisons, you seem to win in a very few number of categories Tongue

I counted one market in one event from my comparisons where you have the best margins, and you're tied with 2 other sportsbooks there. Perhaps I miscalculated, or you changed your margins. If so, please let me know and I'll update it.

You (and any other book) are welcome to use this thread in promotional material, and post promotional stuff if it's accurate, not misleading, related to margins/best odds or promotions. However, please be respectful and not spam your promotional stuff.

Quote from: win008 on October 23, 2018, 12:25:13 AM

Quote from: DarkStar_ on October 22, 2018, 11:08:26 PM

Bump. Been quite busy lately so haven't been able to add much, but hopefully it will be done some time this weekend. Any more things people would like to see?

Live / In-Play odds, selections, markets, etc. I am spending more and more time playing live and I do not see any information on this. I have my favorites, but it would be good to hear from you or others on this.

Betcoin has the best live offering in my opinion as they offer the most markets and don't close them as often. Their GUI is pretty bad though. I'll add a more in depth overview of Live betting on sportsbooks in the near future.

Cloudbet

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Quote from: SyGambler on October 19, 2018, 03:28:28 PM

Quote from: Cloudbet on October 17, 2018, 04:18:06 AM

Quote from: casinobitco on October 16, 2018, 10:26:15 AM

You seem to be missing one, intentionally it seems: https://www.bitcoinrush.io/sportsbook/nba

It definitely wasn't intentional, at the time I checked Sportsbet and Bitcoinrush both had the lines missing (I'm assuming a provider issue as most lines were missing across the board)

It's great to see so many sportsbooks competing to show off the best odds and margins though, it just means better options for the players

it's great to see you guys compete to give the best odds , I'm really glad that Darkstar added the thread
at the moment bitcoinrush is beating all the other sites like 95% of the times , but would love to see you offering even better odds

I only bet with the site that has higher odds ( as long as it's not 1xbit of course Cheesy

) so would love to start betting again with cloudbet once I find better odds than rush and king

I'll try and do the comparisons more if I have time (and we are winning the odds race Wink

)

I tend to post in the sports discussion threads though as I don't want to hijack Darkstar's thread with promotional stuff.

win008

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Quote from: DarkStar_ on October 22, 2018, 11:08:26 PM

Bump. Been quite busy lately so haven't been able to add much, but hopefully it will be done some time this weekend. Any more things people would like to see?

Live / In-Play odds, selections, markets, etc. I am spending more and more time playing live and I do not see any information on this. I have my favorites, but it would be good to hear from you or others on this.

SyGambler

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guess who's back

Quote from: Cloudbet on October 17, 2018, 04:18:06 AM

Quote from: casinobitco on October 16, 2018, 10:26:15 AM

You seem to be missing one, intentionally it seems: https://www.bitcoinrush.io/sportsbook/nba

It definitely wasn't intentional, at the time I checked Sportsbet and Bitcoinrush both had the lines missing (I'm assuming a provider issue as most lines were missing across the board)

It's great to see so many sportsbooks competing to show off the best odds and margins though, it just means better options for the players

it's great to see you guys compete to give the best odds , I'm really glad that Darkstar added the thread
at the moment bitcoinrush is beating all the other sites like 95% of the times , but would love to see you offering even better odds

I only bet with the site that has higher odds ( as long as it's not 1xbit of course Cheesy

) so would love to start betting again with cloudbet once I find better odds than rush and king

Topic: Overview of Bitcoin Accepting Sportsbooks (with margin/house edge comparisons) - page 6. (Read 25314 times)