P2P Scams : Where does the government stand

zasad@

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Quote from: virasog on February 25, 2024, 06:10:56 AM

In those countries, where crypto transactions are not legal, people use the P2P exchanges to buy and sell crypto as in this way, the government does not know that they are dealing with crypto. That's the only option for those people and if you say that they should stop the P2P exchanges, then it means that they should quit crypto and wait for their country's conditions to become favourable for their crypto adoption.

What I am saying is that users should avoid P2P exchanges, because all data about these exchanges can be transferred to the tax authorities and all participants can receive large fines.
In my country, for example, I do not exchange money on the exchange, but use the services of private exchangers. Here prices are 1-2 percent lower, but it is more reliable.

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The way I see it is scammers are everywhere and you can't do anything when you get scammed. The options that we have is to not go for those merchants on a P2P exchange that doesn't have good reputation. These scams only happen when a user goes for a lucrative deal and such deals results in scams.

What you are facing @OP might have come from India. There are so many cases with P2P scams. What as a community we are doing is to focus on reputated merchants otherwise we as a community use local exchange. If you have local exchange in your country then start using them.

virasog

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Quote from: zasad@ on February 25, 2024, 05:28:39 AM

Quote from: UmerIdrees on February 21, 2024, 11:00:50 PM

..

This will go on forever.
P2P exchangers carry great risks for their clients.
The very first thing to avoid is P2P exchanges on exchanges if cryptocurrency transactions are illegal in your country or you do not file documents with the tax authorities.
The exchange itself will transfer all data about your exchanges to the tax office.

The owner of the P2P exchange can be caught, and he will transfer all data about the exchanges to the tax authorities or other organizations that are engaged in financial monitoring.
In the UAE, you can exchange cryptocurrency for cash without any problems.

There is a difference between UAE and other countries where the crypto is illegal. Dubai is one of the crypto hubs and you can buy and sell cryptocurrency with ease and you do not need to depend only on the P2P online platforms.

United Arab Emirates and Cryptocurrency

In those countries, where crypto transactions are not legal, people use the P2P exchanges to buy and sell crypto as in this way, the government does not know that they are dealing with crypto. That's the only option for those people and if you say that they should stop the P2P exchanges, then it means that they should quit crypto and wait for their country's conditions to become favourable for their crypto adoption.

zasad@

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Quote from: UmerIdrees on February 21, 2024, 11:00:50 PM

..

This will go on forever.
P2P exchangers carry great risks for their clients.
The very first thing to avoid is P2P exchanges on exchanges if cryptocurrency transactions are illegal in your country or you do not file documents with the tax authorities.
The exchange itself will transfer all data about your exchanges to the tax office.

The owner of the P2P exchange can be caught, and he will transfer all data about the exchanges to the tax authorities or other organizations that are engaged in financial monitoring.
In the UAE, you can exchange cryptocurrency for cash without any problems.

UmerIdrees

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Quote from: Zoomic on October 26, 2023, 06:12:25 PM

In this scenario, the scammers have free hands to operate and it is assumed only those breaking the law by using bitcoin would be scammed.

That is the worst case Scenario as the scammer scam the people and the people can't take legal action against the scammers as the government instead of going after the scammer, will first make a FIR against the complainant who admits that he had a P2P scam because he was dealing in crypto.

A few days ago someone reported in a crypto group as how the Fedreal Investigation agency is after a person who did a P2P trade, maybe because the merchant with whom he dealt with, made a complianist againsit him on an online portal for dealing with crypto (while he himself runing a merchant account on the P2P section of the exchange).

Quote

I have got a Summon Notice from FIA regarding my transactions in to my Meezan Bank accounts,
I am currently out of Pakistan (Located In UAE), anyone here please guide me on this, if anyone or any of your in contact faced the same issue? and how to deal with this?
My presence to FIA Enquiry Officer is Must? Ot i can submit my reply through my Lawyer with Power or Attorney?
Please your kind assistance in this regards will be truly appreciated...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/CryptoCurrencyGlobal/posts/2663769880440124/

zasad@

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Quote from: Zoomic on October 26, 2023, 06:12:25 PM

Quote from: UmerIdrees on June 02, 2023, 11:48:31 AM

Now my question is that in my country, crypto is not legalized, so in case if anyone is scammed through P2P, we can't take up this matter in the legal court because the country does not recognize the transactions of crypto in the first place.

I have to discuss this in three scenarios.
Scenario 1
Your country did not legalize bitcoin and has also laws to punish bitcoin users. This is just like your own country. In this scenario, the scammers have free hands to operate and it is assumed only those breaking the law by using bitcoin would be scammed.

Scenario 2
Your country doesn't legalize cryptocurrency and at the same time does have anything against the citizens using the cryptocurrency.
In this case, the scammers would be tried as in the normal case of scam.

Scenario 3
Your country making bitcoin a legal tender. In this case, the scammers should be in a mess if caught.

Quote from: UmerIdrees on June 02, 2023, 11:48:31 AM

Does this gives a free hand to scammers as they know that they cannot be punished by a court of law Huh

Yes, if it is scenario 1.

Unfortunately, scammers are very difficult to catch because they do not violate the laws of the countries in which they live. And what they do in other countries is very difficult to prove, but for the victim in all cases, getting the stolen money back will be a big problem. Because when the fraudster is caught, this money will be spent.

Zoomic

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Quote from: UmerIdrees on June 02, 2023, 11:48:31 AM

Now my question is that in my country, crypto is not legalized, so in case if anyone is scammed through P2P, we can't take up this matter in the legal court because the country does not recognize the transactions of crypto in the first place.

I have to discuss this in three scenarios.
Scenario 1
Your country did not legalize bitcoin and has also laws to punish bitcoin users. This is just like your own country. In this scenario, the scammers have free hands to operate and it is assumed only those breaking the law by using bitcoin would be scammed.

Scenario 2
Your country doesn't legalize cryptocurrency and at the same time does have anything against the citizens using the cryptocurrency.
In this case, the scammers would be tried as in the normal case of scam.

Scenario 3
Your country making bitcoin a legal tender. In this case, the scammers should be in a mess if caught.

Quote from: UmerIdrees on June 02, 2023, 11:48:31 AM

Does this gives a free hand to scammers as they know that they cannot be punished by a court of law Huh

Yes, if it is scenario 1.

zasad@

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Yeah sure, We can't blame to the technology, but we have to strict and alert from the scammers. Because scammers are everywhere in the word. P2P is the most powerful things where we can use the money to deposit are withdrawn.

I wouldn't put my hopes on it too much. If the amount of replenishment of an exchange account through P2P transfers is more than 10 thousand dollars, then the exchange may require you to have a whole list of tax documents on income, so do not think that the exchange will not have questions for you. Centralized exchanges are very bad partners and can block your assets at any time.

BitcoinsGreat

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Yeah sure, We can't blame to the technology, but we have to strict and alert from the scammers. Because scammers are everywhere in the word. P2P is the most powerful things where we can use the money to deposit are withdrawn.

Yes, the people involved in P2P have to defend themselves and take every precautionary measure to avoid the scam from the scammers. We should know that we are dealing with P2P with our own risk, sometimes an exchange may help if the deal is not closed but we should not expect any help from the governments (in places where the crypto is not legal).

Better read and understand all the policies regarding P2P and watch a few AMAs from Binance, before starting trading on P2P.

zasad@

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Quote from: UmerIdrees on October 13, 2023, 03:27:23 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on September 27, 2023, 08:31:36 AM

Has Binance P2P changed its rules and now the buyer needs to make a bank transfer of dollars or euros to the exchange account?
In this case, it is very difficult to commit fraud, but it will also be difficult for users to work with the crypto exchange.
Not all banks like it when users frequently transfer and receive money from crypto exchanges and block accounts for verification.

I don't think that there is any change in the P2P system for binance, or maybe it is related to the countries where the binance allows direct deposit of fiat money into binance and also transfer the money from biannce to the bank account directly.

In my country, where we are not allowed to use our bank accounts directly with binance, nothnig has changed for us. We only have the P2P to buy and sell bitcoins or the USDT. So the chances of scams still exisits specailly for the new users who accept to deal / chat outside of the binance, while the binance P2P order is still in progress.

Yes, I think that banks in many countries will be against it if their users send and receive money from crypto exchanges to their bank accounts, which are not intended for this.
Therefore, exchanges do not want to get involved with this and they only control cryptocurrencies. And when you control only 50% of the exchange, scammers can always deceive users.

UmerIdrees

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Quote from: zasad@ on September 27, 2023, 08:31:36 AM

Has Binance P2P changed its rules and now the buyer needs to make a bank transfer of dollars or euros to the exchange account?
In this case, it is very difficult to commit fraud, but it will also be difficult for users to work with the crypto exchange.
Not all banks like it when users frequently transfer and receive money from crypto exchanges and block accounts for verification.

I don't think that there is any change in the P2P system for binance, or maybe it is related to the countries where the binance allows direct deposit of fiat money into binance and also transfer the money from biannce to the bank account directly.

In my country, where we are not allowed to use our bank accounts directly with binance, nothnig has changed for us. We only have the P2P to buy and sell bitcoins or the USDT. So the chances of scams still exisits specailly for the new users who accept to deal / chat outside of the binance, while the binance P2P order is still in progress.

coupable

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Quote from: Coin_trader on September 23, 2023, 11:50:37 AM

This is good timing about this inquiry since Binance already launch program dedicated o fight this scammers on P2P. They are now giving reward to every P2P scammer that you spotted by reporting them on this form https://www.binance.com/en/survey/728ee8020925499ea62224c4a7cd3d8d.

You can have extra tokens by reporting this scammers! I believe this will reduce scammers since everyone will be eager to report them while they have funds that can be seized by Binance once report is proven.

The program is called Anti-Scam Ninja Program

I don't think it will be easy to identify scammers because transfers can be managed outside the Binance system and Binance is only used to make transfers. In a recent incident, scammers from a foreign country were able to convince some people to send them money for the purpose of investment and that they would make profits. Then they contacted traders on Binance to accept money in the victims’ local currency and send them crypto on Binance in return. Fraudsters were able to exploit Binance P2P services without harming Binance customers. Unfortunately, when the victims filed a complaint with the authorities after it was proven to them that they had fallen victim to a scam, they mentioned the merchants who gave them money in the local currency and who found themselves facing a lot of trouble. I do not think that Binance can do anything about this, especially since no proof can be provided.

zasad@

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Quote from: Coin_trader on September 24, 2023, 09:25:34 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on September 24, 2023, 07:42:55 AM

Quote from: Coin_trader on September 23, 2023, 11:50:37 AM

This is good timing about this inquiry since Binance already launch program dedicated o fight this scammers on P2P. They are now giving reward to every P2P scammer that you spotted by reporting them on this form https://www.binance.com/en/survey/728ee8020925499ea62224c4a7cd3d8d.

You can have extra tokens by reporting this scammers! I believe this will reduce scammers since everyone will be eager to report them while they have funds that can be seized by Binance once report is proven.

The program is called Anti-Scam Ninja Program

What is this $5 reward anti-scam program? This makes me laugh.
Fraudsters work on Binance using other people’s personal data, and to combat fraud, you need to verify your identity every week using a video call. In the meantime, as long as it remains possible to work on crypto exchanges using someone else’s documents, fraud will continue.

Yeah, the amount of reward is laughable but the disadvantage for scammer that will be report was their funds will be seize despite they are using different identity. You will need to escrow your balance to Binance once you create a buy&sell order on Binance P2P.

Reporting the scammer while he/she has an existing order will surely trap his balance and seize it by the exchange. I think this is what Binance thinking on this program but I really agree that reward is too low for the trouble.

Has Binance P2P changed its rules and now the buyer needs to make a bank transfer of dollars or euros to the exchange account?
In this case, it is very difficult to commit fraud, but it will also be difficult for users to work with the crypto exchange.
Not all banks like it when users frequently transfer and receive money from crypto exchanges and block accounts for verification.

Coin_trader

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Quote from: zasad@ on September 24, 2023, 07:42:55 AM

Quote from: Coin_trader on September 23, 2023, 11:50:37 AM

This is good timing about this inquiry since Binance already launch program dedicated o fight this scammers on P2P. They are now giving reward to every P2P scammer that you spotted by reporting them on this form https://www.binance.com/en/survey/728ee8020925499ea62224c4a7cd3d8d.

You can have extra tokens by reporting this scammers! I believe this will reduce scammers since everyone will be eager to report them while they have funds that can be seized by Binance once report is proven.

The program is called Anti-Scam Ninja Program

What is this $5 reward anti-scam program? This makes me laugh.
Fraudsters work on Binance using other people’s personal data, and to combat fraud, you need to verify your identity every week using a video call. In the meantime, as long as it remains possible to work on crypto exchanges using someone else’s documents, fraud will continue.

Yeah, the amount of reward is laughable but the disadvantage for scammer that will be report was their funds will be seize despite they are using different identity. You will need to escrow your balance to Binance once you create a buy&sell order on Binance P2P.

Reporting the scammer while he/she has an existing order will surely trap his balance and seize it by the exchange. I think this is what Binance thinking on this program but I really agree that reward is too low for the trouble.

zasad@

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Quote from: Coin_trader on September 23, 2023, 11:50:37 AM

This is good timing about this inquiry since Binance already launch program dedicated o fight this scammers on P2P. They are now giving reward to every P2P scammer that you spotted by reporting them on this form https://www.binance.com/en/survey/728ee8020925499ea62224c4a7cd3d8d.

You can have extra tokens by reporting this scammers! I believe this will reduce scammers since everyone will be eager to report them while they have funds that can be seized by Binance once report is proven.

The program is called Anti-Scam Ninja Program

What is this $5 reward anti-scam program? This makes me laugh.
Fraudsters work on Binance using other people’s personal data, and to combat fraud, you need to verify your identity every week using a video call. In the meantime, as long as it remains possible to work on crypto exchanges using someone else’s documents, fraud will continue.

Coin_trader

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This is good timing about this inquiry since Binance already launch program dedicated o fight this scammers on P2P. They are now giving reward to every P2P scammer that you spotted by reporting them on this form https://www.binance.com/en/survey/728ee8020925499ea62224c4a7cd3d8d.

You can have extra tokens by reporting this scammers! I believe this will reduce scammers since everyone will be eager to report them while they have funds that can be seized by Binance once report is proven.

The program is called Anti-Scam Ninja Program

zasad@

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Quote from: virasog on September 22, 2023, 07:14:39 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on September 15, 2023, 06:35:56 AM

Quote from: Sarrim02 on September 14, 2023, 10:43:36 PM

Yeah sure, We can't blame to the technology, but we have to strict and alert from the scammers. Because scammers are everywhere in the word. P2P is the most powerful things where we can use the money to deposit are withdrawn. But there is also some technical things to understand that how we can alert from scammers. Please choose the best person with many rating and positive reviews, so you can be safe in this process too.

You will understand how P2P exchanges work. The exchange only blocks cryptocurrencies, but it does not control money transfers. Even people on P2P sites with a lot of reviews use other people's bank accounts for payments.
And as soon as fraud occurs in this payment chain, many bank accounts that were linked by transfers may be blocked. And then the bank or police officers will find out the reasons for such payments.

But all this does not happen in reality. Most government does not support cryptocurrencies. So they won't help you out in case you were scammed through P2P.

Also the scammers at P2P are clever enough that they make the other party close the deal without getting the payment. Once you close the deal, the escrow is released and then even binance can't help you.

Any Internet fraud is very poorly investigated in many countries. If the criminal makes a mistake, he will be caught several years later, but the chance of returning the stolen money will be zero.
Even if you are an experienced user, scammers will not be able to deceive you, but it is very easy to get your account blocked.

I gave a simple example. You sold your bitcoins on the exchange via P2P and received money on your card. A year later, the owner of the bank card (drop) sues you and asks you to return the erroneous transfer. And you will lose the trial because you cannot prove in any way that you sent the bitcoins to the drop. In Russia this period is 3 years.

virasog

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Quote from: zasad@ on September 15, 2023, 06:35:56 AM

Quote from: Sarrim02 on September 14, 2023, 10:43:36 PM

Yeah sure, We can't blame to the technology, but we have to strict and alert from the scammers. Because scammers are everywhere in the word. P2P is the most powerful things where we can use the money to deposit are withdrawn. But there is also some technical things to understand that how we can alert from scammers. Please choose the best person with many rating and positive reviews, so you can be safe in this process too.

You will understand how P2P exchanges work. The exchange only blocks cryptocurrencies, but it does not control money transfers. Even people on P2P sites with a lot of reviews use other people's bank accounts for payments.
And as soon as fraud occurs in this payment chain, many bank accounts that were linked by transfers may be blocked. And then the bank or police officers will find out the reasons for such payments.

But all this does not happen in reality. Most government does not support cryptocurrencies. So they won't help you out in case you were scammed through P2P.

Also the scammers at P2P are clever enough that they make the other party close the deal without getting the payment. Once you close the deal, the escrow is released and then even binance can't help you.

Baofeng

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Quote from: Sarrim02 on September 14, 2023, 10:43:36 PM

Yeah sure, We can't blame to the technology, but we have to strict and alert from the scammers. Because scammers are everywhere in the word. P2P is the most powerful things where we can use the money to deposit are withdrawn. But there is also some technical things to understand that how we can alert from scammers. Please choose the best person with many rating and positive reviews, so you can be safe in this process too.

Yeah, it could be one hint that the person or buyer is not a scammer, but still though you need to be very cautious. And it's good that exchange have recorded our transactions, and one thing I do is to look at it and see who I might have been transacting in the past.

And then I will try to look for that person if he is available during the time that I needed a quick exchange. Otherwise I will look for others who have a good rating and of course his exchange rate is as competitive as others and maybe try just small amount and see how it goes and rate him base on my experience.

zasad@

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Quote from: Sarrim02 on September 14, 2023, 10:43:36 PM

Yeah sure, We can't blame to the technology, but we have to strict and alert from the scammers. Because scammers are everywhere in the word. P2P is the most powerful things where we can use the money to deposit are withdrawn. But there is also some technical things to understand that how we can alert from scammers. Please choose the best person with many rating and positive reviews, so you can be safe in this process too.

You will understand how P2P exchanges work. The exchange only blocks cryptocurrencies, but it does not control money transfers. Even people on P2P sites with a lot of reviews use other people's bank accounts for payments.
And as soon as fraud occurs in this payment chain, many bank accounts that were linked by transfers may be blocked. And then the bank or police officers will find out the reasons for such payments.

Topic: P2P Scams : Where does the government stand (Read 967 times)