P2P Scams : Where does the government stand - page 4.

NotATether

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Quote from: UmerIdrees on June 02, 2023, 10:48:31 AM

Does this gives a free hand to scammers as they know that they cannot be punished by a court of law Huh

Unfortunately, yes. There are no checks and balances in place anywhere, so while legitimate users' accounts are being shut down by exchanges who proceed to keep the money, there are also individual scammers (the high-tech thieves) who steal from people for a living, and nobody from the crypto platforms to the social media apps to the countries are doing anything to quash it.

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Quote from: Bushdark on June 19, 2023, 05:29:25 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on June 14, 2023, 07:46:48 AM

Quote from: Bushdark on June 13, 2023, 03:45:20 PM

It is very important for us to be very careful the way make run transactions in a country where cryptocurrency is illegal. One need to take extra ordinary consciousness to use many of these ex image for p2p trade and this is a way where we can find so many forms of scamming because the government would not take any responsibility if anyone ever report the case of being scam through P2P method.

This kind of scamming where the buy would send fake alert to the seller is very rampard and we all need to take consciousness when dealing with an unknown person online. I have seen many cases where the buyer was claiming that he had paid the fund and begging the seller to release the coin without seeing any fund. Theybhave so many methods they use and we need to be aware of those methods or else, we might fall for there scam.

I can't believe that in a large city with a population of more than a million people you will not find a place where you can change cryptocurrency. And if this is a tourist city, then there are definitely no problems with this. There are a lot of scammers, and you do not need to work with the first ad that you find in instant messengers.

There are so many cryptocurrency plugs but one need to be careful how they transact business because they can easily end up in the wrong hands and get scammed. I am referring to place or region when cryptocurrency is never legally official yet and this can make investing in cryptocurrency projects to be very scary with extra ordinary consciousness.

8f we live in a region where cryptocurrency is not regulated, we might find it hard to run transaction even if we uses exchange. Since the government would never come in to help and prosecute the offender for his attempt to scam, this could make it difficult for the scammed victim to complain to the police so the culprit can to arrested and prosecuted by law. We all hope tha Bitcoin would be universally accepted which will reduce scam.

There are countries where people trust the police, and the police protect the interests of the people.
A good example, although controversial:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/texas-lawsuit-between-a-bitcoin-atm-operator-and-a-local-sheriff-5457086
I live in a country where people don't trust the police and the police won't find scammers who will steal your cryptocurrency. In most cases, this cannot be done even in many countries.

You refer to the law, but this law protects the interests of large companies in all countries. Not a single exchange has yet reimbursed a trader due to illegal blocking, because this cannot be proven and the trader himself agrees to this in the terms of use.

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Quote from: zasad@ on June 14, 2023, 07:46:48 AM

Quote from: Bushdark on June 13, 2023, 03:45:20 PM

It is very important for us to be very careful the way make run transactions in a country where cryptocurrency is illegal. One need to take extra ordinary consciousness to use many of these ex image for p2p trade and this is a way where we can find so many forms of scamming because the government would not take any responsibility if anyone ever report the case of being scam through P2P method.

This kind of scamming where the buy would send fake alert to the seller is very rampard and we all need to take consciousness when dealing with an unknown person online. I have seen many cases where the buyer was claiming that he had paid the fund and begging the seller to release the coin without seeing any fund. Theybhave so many methods they use and we need to be aware of those methods or else, we might fall for there scam.

I can't believe that in a large city with a population of more than a million people you will not find a place where you can change cryptocurrency. And if this is a tourist city, then there are definitely no problems with this. There are a lot of scammers, and you do not need to work with the first ad that you find in instant messengers.

There are so many cryptocurrency plugs but one need to be careful how they transact business because they can easily end up in the wrong hands and get scammed. I am referring to place or region when cryptocurrency is never legally official yet and this can make investing in cryptocurrency projects to be very scary with extra ordinary consciousness.

8f we live in a region where cryptocurrency is not regulated, we might find it hard to run transaction even if we uses exchange. Since the government would never come in to help and prosecute the offender for his attempt to scam, this could make it difficult for the scammed victim to complain to the police so the culprit can to arrested and prosecuted by law. We all hope tha Bitcoin would be universally accepted which will reduce scam.

zasad@

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Quote from: Bushdark on June 13, 2023, 03:45:20 PM

It is very important for us to be very careful the way make run transactions in a country where cryptocurrency is illegal. One need to take extra ordinary consciousness to use many of these ex image for p2p trade and this is a way where we can find so many forms of scamming because the government would not take any responsibility if anyone ever report the case of being scam through P2P method.

This kind of scamming where the buy would send fake alert to the seller is very rampard and we all need to take consciousness when dealing with an unknown person online. I have seen many cases where the buyer was claiming that he had paid the fund and begging the seller to release the coin without seeing any fund. Theybhave so many methods they use and we need to be aware of those methods or else, we might fall for there scam.

I can't believe that in a large city with a population of more than a million people you will not find a place where you can change cryptocurrency. And if this is a tourist city, then there are definitely no problems with this. There are a lot of scammers, and you do not need to work with the first ad that you find in instant messengers.

joniboini

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Quote from: Bushdark on June 13, 2023, 03:45:20 PM

this is a way where we can find so many forms of scamming because the government would not take any responsibility if anyone ever report the case of being scam through P2P method.

I don't think responsibility is the right word. Even if crypto is legalized in your country and you can trade it openly, they still won't compensate you if you fail for a scam. I guess help is the word you're looking for, more or less. At the end of the day though, people should not overly depend on the government to do investigative works to put scammers in jail.

Quote from: Bushdark on June 13, 2023, 03:45:20 PM

I have seen many cases where the buyer was claiming that he had paid the fund and begging the seller to release the coin without seeing any fund. Theybhave so many methods they use and we need to be aware of those methods or else, we might fall for there scam.

Any decent platform would always alert its users that they should never communicate outside of the platform and ask for proof from their trading partners. Even if you do a P2P trade directly, it is a silly mistake to make unless you're so new to P2P IMO. CMIIW.

Bushdark

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It is very important for us to be very careful the way make run transactions in a country where cryptocurrency is illegal. One need to take extra ordinary consciousness to use many of these ex image for p2p trade and this is a way where we can find so many forms of scamming because the government would not take any responsibility if anyone ever report the case of being scam through P2P method.

This kind of scamming where the buy would send fake alert to the seller is very rampard and we all need to take consciousness when dealing with an unknown person online. I have seen many cases where the buyer was claiming that he had paid the fund and begging the seller to release the coin without seeing any fund. Theybhave so many methods they use and we need to be aware of those methods or else, we might fall for there scam.

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Quote from: UmerIdrees on June 02, 2023, 10:48:31 AM

Now my question is that in my country, crypto is not legalized, so in case if anyone is scammed through P2P, we can't take up this matter in the legal court because the country does not recognize the transactions of crypto in the first place.

Does this gives a free hand to scammers as they know that they cannot be punished by a court of law Huh

Pretty good topic. I think Government cant handle or help you with that especially if the user who scammed you is using a disposable wallet for transactions. Plus you cant track him that easily. Binance have fake users, they always reminding users to be vigilant cause some are probably trying to scam them. Anyone could distignuish an account that is legit and only choose those verified one. The trick is dont over to some high offer value that doesnt have much feedbacks. Potentially they are scammers.

Findingnemo

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Quote from: UmerIdrees on June 02, 2023, 10:48:31 AM

These days there are a lot of P2P scams on Binance and other platforms. The P2P platforms are not be blamed but the scammers are coming up with new ways to scam people who are new to the crypto world.

Recently Binance did a P2P scam awareness session with our local community which was very informative.

The recording can be watched here https://www.binance.com/en/live/video?roomId=2138115

Now my question is that in my country, crypto is not legalized, so in case if anyone is scammed through P2P, we can't take up this matter in the legal court because the country does not recognize the transactions of crypto in the first place.

Does this gives a free hand to scammers as they know that they cannot be punished by a court of law Huh

Crypto isn't legalized is different from crypto is banned so in the case you're talking still you can take it to legal proceedings if you're scammed while doing cryptocurrency trading and the existing law related to scam through online will still applies.

But how the giant exchanges with intensive KYC procedure for verification still missing the scammers and the platform can give complete information about the scammer if you take it to legal and authority seeks for them.

zasad@

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Quote from: joniboini on June 07, 2023, 08:24:48 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on June 07, 2023, 07:05:25 AM

If cryptocurrency is banned in your country, you can ask friends from other countries to set up an account with one of the European payment systems and buy cryptocurrencies through these systems.

Oh, so that's what you mean. I guess people can do that as long as the requirement is not that difficult. I do have an overseas bank account opened through apps like Wise, but I believe they also need to follow regulations in my country to some extent.

If you follow all the idiotic rules, then you can remain an idiot. I do not oppose laws, but governments of countries do not have the right to ban cryptocurrencies.Companies also want to make money, so they can formally comply with certain rules.But you must understand the responsibility for this in your country.

joniboini

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Quote from: Woodie on June 07, 2023, 06:59:05 PM

But for now, best solution is running an awareness campaign and let p2p users not trust users on the other side of the screen as these are strangers and trust should never come in the picture.

There are definitely good tools that we can use to prevent scams from happening, such as multi-sig/escrow, trust profile, trade history, etc. I believe people can definitely use P2P without being scared that much as long as they get the gist of it. But yeah, a change of habit can be quite difficult for some people who usually rely on a third party to prevent scams from happening.

Quote from: zasad@ on June 07, 2023, 07:05:25 AM

If cryptocurrency is banned in your country, you can ask friends from other countries to set up an account with one of the European payment systems and buy cryptocurrencies through these systems.

Oh, so that's what you mean. I guess people can do that as long as the requirement is not that difficult. I do have an overseas bank account opened through apps like Wise, but I believe they also need to follow regulations in my country to some extent.

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The only way I can think of preventing this is or bring the numbers down is by drafting cyber laws that will deter would be offenders as local mediums will be used when it comes to transferring out fiat. Of course people on these platforms use fake IDs and the alike, such users can be followed and if the proof is overwhelming their coins can be confiscated and not returned to them and this should definitely bring the numbers down.

But for now, best solution is running an awareness campaign and let p2p users not trust users on the other side of the screen as these are strangers and trust should never come in the picture.

Quote from: avikz on June 07, 2023, 06:12:45 AM

It really depends on the nature of the scam. In P2P trading, fiat is usually involved. So regardless of whether crypto is involved or not, it can be taken up by the court of law.

Agreed, unlike crypto... p2p has an aspect of real life transactions which makes it an interesting case for the police and later the courts, and if found on the wrong side of the law,anything from fraud chargers, to cyber crime to whatever they courts find fit to hit you with can be all piled up on the offenders, so act smart and let's do things cleanly.

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Quote from: UmerIdrees on June 02, 2023, 10:48:31 AM

Now my question is that in my country, crypto is not legalized, so in case if anyone is scammed through P2P, we can't take up this matter in the legal court because the country does not recognize the transactions of crypto in the first place.

Does this gives a free hand to scammers as they know that they cannot be punished by a court of law Huh

If crypto is banned in your country exchanges might be blocked from operating except if you use VPN or other anonymizing browsers. Engaging in such crypto transactions makes you a criminal because you are violating the law of the country thereby committing a crime. He that comes to equity must come with clean hands, so you cannot take legal action against a scammer because you are not also innocent. Since the transaction is illegal before the law, the court has no locus standi to entertain such a matter. It will definitely give scammers the freedom to scam as many people as possible because the transactions are illegal in your country. The only option is to report to the exchange for investigation and further sanctions.

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Quote from: joniboini on June 06, 2023, 08:21:15 PM

Quote from: zasad@ on June 04, 2023, 05:16:09 AM

In Russia, for example, such exchanges will quickly lead to the blocking of a bank account. On average, 7-8 thousand dollars per month of operations on a bank card and the account is blocked.

8k USD per month transaction limit is kinda low, isn't it? If it is because crypto is being used, I wonder why they don't block people from the beginning and wait until they reach a certain threshold. Is there a limit or something on the trading activity for each month?

Quote from: zasad@ on June 04, 2023, 05:16:09 AM

I would try to use the European and American services that are on the website https://www.bestchange.com/
for purchase only. If you are blocked there, then there will be no problems in your own country. You can buy cryptocurrencies in small amounts of 300-500 dollars.

I'm not sure I get it, how can you be sure that a service is available in my country if it was blocked in Europe/US? For example, Pakistan just ban crypto based on the news shared a few days ago iirc because they don't want to get blacklisted internationally. At the end of the day, I do believe exchange services will allow users from countries that don't explicitly ban crypto trading activities.

In Russia, there is a law that requires a bank to check all payments that are more than 600,000 rubles ($7,320) for illegal activity and report them to Rosfinmonitoring.
But the bank can also block payments of smaller amounts if it sees this as illegal activity (and there are no clear criteria, even 15 receipts of money a day for $ 30 may be cause for questions). According to the agreement with the bank, it is forbidden to engage in commercial activities.
If, for example, you withdraw cash from an ATM after the transfer to you, then you will be blocked earlier. If you only receive money and spend it in stores, then your bank account will live longer, but P2P trading will still lead to account blocking. I asked arbitrageur about this issue and they said that on average 1 bank account works for a month or less before blocking.

___
If cryptocurrency is banned in your country, you can ask friends from other countries to set up an account with one of the European payment systems and buy cryptocurrencies through these systems.

avikz

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It really depends on the nature of the scam. In P2P trading, fiat is usually involved. So regardless of whether crypto is involved or not, it can be taken up by the court of law. Even in my country, crypto is not recognised in any way legally. Still we often face bank freeze issues and it can be taken up with legal enforcement team.

Can op please be specific what kind of scam you are referring to?

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Quote from: zasad@ on June 04, 2023, 05:16:09 AM

In Russia, for example, such exchanges will quickly lead to the blocking of a bank account. On average, 7-8 thousand dollars per month of operations on a bank card and the account is blocked.

8k USD per month transaction limit is kinda low, isn't it? If it is because crypto is being used, I wonder why they don't block people from the beginning and wait until they reach a certain threshold. Is there a limit or something on the trading activity for each month?

Quote from: zasad@ on June 04, 2023, 05:16:09 AM

I would try to use the European and American services that are on the website https://www.bestchange.com/
for purchase only. If you are blocked there, then there will be no problems in your own country. You can buy cryptocurrencies in small amounts of 300-500 dollars.

I'm not sure I get it, how can you be sure that a service is available in my country if it was blocked in Europe/US? For example, Pakistan just ban crypto based on the news shared a few days ago iirc because they don't want to get blacklisted internationally. At the end of the day, I do believe exchange services will allow users from countries that don't explicitly ban crypto trading activities.

dansus021

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I would say yes if the country doesn't recognize the Crypyto or the p2p marketplace as legal companies or entities. There is nothing much you can do. But you can still probably make a report to the police but when the p2p is from overseas the gov help you is near zero

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Quote from: UmerIdrees on June 02, 2023, 10:48:31 AM

~snipped~

People who trade on Binance do so because of the trade volume there. No one wants to be delayed getting their order filled. That level of traffic also attracts scammers. That's the reality. However, there's something everyone can do to reduce the level of scam attempts they encounter. My method of sieving through the murky water of scam has always helped me and that's simply never to be in a rush. Once it comes to financial transactions, I take my time to attend to it. I'm never in a hurry. That haste is where the mistake comes in. Scammers know that and they utilize it on their victims. Once someone is trying to hurry you up in a transaction, don't fall for it. Again, don't take the bait of high buying offer or low selling offer. If it's too good to be true, then it's a scam lurking. Another is to check the number of deals executed by traders before you patronize them. Read the feedback on traders also, that's very important.

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Quote from: UmerIdrees on June 03, 2023, 06:30:15 AM

Quote from: zasad@ on June 03, 2023, 06:26:18 AM

P2P is better not to use if you receive money on your bank card and do not declare income.
You may get a transfer of the money that was stolen and your police will question you and your accounts will be blocked by the bank. Scammers have accounts registered to other people, which are called "droops". Send money to your bank card only through verified exchangers that have been operating for a long time and will not send you criminal money. But you still need to open an account with another bank.

This is only true in regions where the crypto is legal or at least there is no objection to doing crypto transactions. Many countries do not have the privilege of depositing and withdrawing crypto using debit/credit cards. They have only option and that is P2P to convert their money from fiat to crypto and vice versa.

In Russia, for example, such exchanges will quickly lead to the blocking of a bank account. On average, 7-8 thousand dollars per month of operations on a bank card and the account is blocked.
It is difficult to use banks for arbitrage in many countries, because there are a lot of problems with blocking, and stablecoins can be used for storage.
I would try to use the European and American services that are on the website https://www.bestchange.com/
for purchase only. If you are blocked there, then there will be no problems in your own country. You can buy cryptocurrencies in small amounts of 300-500 dollars.

Helena Yu

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@OP I think if you're reporting P2P scam in legal court, both of you and the scammer will get punishment. So it's not a good choice because even if you win, you're still need to accept the punishment since you're using Bitcoin in illegal country. So my advice you should let the money if you get scammed, rather than following a complicate laws and stay in jail for a year.

Quote from: TravelMug on June 03, 2023, 07:57:35 PM

I will only assumed that the OP is living wherein it's in the gray area, neither illegal because Binance was able to thrive and at the same time government are still in the middle as far as far as their support or not of crypto.

Incorrect,

China has permanently ban Bitcoin, but Binance employees' are helping their users to bypass Bitcoin ban in Chin., so there's a chance the Binance employee help users to trade in illegal countries.

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Quote from: bittraffic on June 03, 2023, 01:26:40 AM

The government made crypto illegal. Thats where they stand.

Binance will always remind P2p traders every transaction but if they are going to be a victim still, it really is the fault of the user. Its also a problem because they know any user engaing in crypto in the country can not bring the police in the situation because they'll be in trouble. A smart strategy for scammers to hunt crypto users in the country.

I will only assumed that the OP is living wherein it's in the gray area, neither illegal because Binance was able to thrive and at the same time government are still in the middle as far as far as their support or not of crypto.

So everything lies on our end, we need to be very careful on who we deal with in their P2P platform. And Binance are not short of giving reminders though when you try to used their services. So the bulk of it all depends on us, we can see who can we deal with, in terms of trading volume, and then the reviews that being left by the sellers themselves.

Topic: P2P Scams : Where does the government stand - page 4. (Read 1043 times)