P2P will save your life - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

GreatArkansas

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Quote from: BitMaxz on July 10, 2023, 07:31:19 PM

Quote from: Wend on July 10, 2023, 07:04:40 PM

I agree, P2P on Binance is not strictly a peer-to-peer transaction, you are right to call it semi-P2P because of third-party interference. If the transaction is in dispute, the assets of both parties will be locked immediately.

I don't think it should be called semi-P2P it would be more fit if we call it centralized P2P because Binance act as escrow and it requires KYC when using their service unlike other decentralized P2P exchange that does not need KYC like Bisq but take note Bisq also escrow sellers funds they act the same as Binance but without KYC anytime both parties can dispute a transaction.

P2P on Binance is fake P2P hahaha. It's centralized 100%. All of your funds on Binance, even on P2P are being controlled by Binance. Once you deposit any funds in your Binance account, you already lost authority over your funds, especially Bitcoin.
For some people these centralized exchanges' P2P are easy way convert your Bitcoin to fiat or vice versa.

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Quote from: Wend on July 10, 2023, 07:04:40 PM

I agree, P2P on Binance is not strictly a peer-to-peer transaction, you are right to call it semi-P2P because of third-party interference. If the transaction is in dispute, the assets of both parties will be locked immediately.

I don't think it should be called semi-P2P it would be more fit if we call it centralized P2P because Binance act as escrow and it requires KYC when using their service unlike other decentralized P2P exchange that does not need KYC like Bisq but take note Bisq also escrow sellers funds they act the same as Binance but without KYC anytime both parties can dispute a transaction.

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Quote from: pawel7777 on July 10, 2023, 05:25:09 PM

Quote from: Z-tight on July 08, 2023, 01:19:15 PM

Quote from: mvdheuvel1983 on July 08, 2023, 12:53:11 PM

Do you then mean that Binance p2p feature is not really a what it is but a peer to intermediary? This is a bit confusing. Care to explain further?

Yes. When you use Binance p2p, you are not trading directly with the other peer, Binance is the third party or intermediary in the trade. P2p means directly from one peer to another and what ensures the safety of the traders isn't a third party but mostly a multi-sig set up, in which both parties will sign the transaction to release coins to the seller if everything goes smooth.

If you don't want to classify a trade as P2P whenever any 3rd party is involved, then you'd be left only with crypto/physical cash transactions. When you want to wire fiat, you'd have to use third-party bank or payment processor services.
A more sensible approach is to assess the nature of the involvement of the 3rd party. In the case of Binance, I'd call it a semi-P2P. If they only provided a platform to connect buyers with sellers, then I wouldn't have a problem in calling it a peer-to-peer platform, but since they also hold crypto in escrow, charge fees and resolve disputes (when needed) then it's indeed not a full P2P.

I agree, P2P on Binance is not strictly a peer-to-peer transaction, you are right to call it semi-P2P because of third party interference. If the transaction is in dispute, the assets of both parties will be locked immediately.

But I have a question, does P2P on decentralized exchanges really guarantee our privacy? I mean, we also need to provide a bank account name and number, or we still use an e-wallet like advcash centralized wallet during the transaction. So I think our privacy is not guaranteed if the buyer and seller with us is a government employee pretending to be.

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Quote from: Z-tight on July 08, 2023, 01:19:15 PM

Quote from: mvdheuvel1983 on July 08, 2023, 12:53:11 PM

Do you then mean that Binance p2p feature is not really a what it is but a peer to intermediary? This is a bit confusing. Care to explain further?

Yes. When you use Binance p2p, you are not trading directly with the other peer, Binance is the third party or intermediary in the trade. P2p means directly from one peer to another and what ensures the safety of the traders isn't a third party but mostly a multi-sig set up, in which both parties will sign the transaction to release coins to the seller if everything goes smooth.

If you don't want to classify a trade as P2P whenever any 3rd party is involved, then you'd be left only with crypto/physical cash transactions. When you want to wire fiat, you'd have to use third-party bank or payment processor services.
A more sensible approach is to assess the nature of the involvement of the 3rd party. In the case of Binance, I'd call it a semi-P2P. If they only provided a platform to connect buyers with sellers, then I wouldn't have a problem in calling it a peer-to-peer platform, but since they also hold crypto in escrow, charge fees and resolve disputes (when needed) then it's indeed not a full P2P.

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Quote from: Jawhead999 on July 09, 2023, 01:05:01 AM

Quote from: southerngentuk on July 08, 2023, 01:28:48 PM

Obviously, P2P trading is a quick and convenient option for investors. However, it is also a double-edged sword, leaving unpredictable consequences for investors if they do not know how to protect themselves in the market. Underestimating the security process and protecting yourself is, in a way, abetting scams that can take place in the market. That is also why KYC is always a problem when the exchange can reveal the personal information of users at any time. So having money left on the exchange for a long time is not a good problem.

Not really sure what you're talking about, but most of people will agree if P2P trading is more slower and not convenient for investors. If P2P is more quick and convenient, most people already prefer to use P2P than CEX.

I would say CEX don't have any intention to reveal their customers' KYC because there's no point for them for doing it. But the problem is about their vulnerability and the hacker can get all personal information that have been submitted.

I have also never heard anyone say that P2P is faster and more convenient than centralized exchanges.

As a rule, they will never reveal the identity of their customers because it is not beneficial and seriously affects their business. But what many users fear is that their privacy could very well be controlled by the government through centralized exchanges. Once the government requires exchanges to provide users' identities, they cannot fight the government. As news I saw recently, the US government is asking the Kraken exchange to provide investors' data to tax them. It really is a blatant attack on user privacy.

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Quote from: Tigerheart3026 on July 09, 2023, 01:43:09 AM

p2p (peer to peer) is very safe way to exchange your money, i am using binance and kucoin p2p feature, mostly i using binance it's convenient,
but the problem is still i'm not safe, because government can trace transaction history, in p2p i have to used a mobile number which is used as my payment receiving address.

Back in the past when there were no options like this, we had trouble using our local exchanges because they ask for some high percentage transaction fees when we want to convert out crypto to fiat. too bad that we were taken advantage of in that stage of our crypto journey and we lose lots of money because of that. thankfully we have lots of P2P options nowadays in some different trusted exchanges where we could trade our bitcoins safely with different rates and also convenience in terms of converting it to fiat.

Jawhead999

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Quote from: Tigerheart3026 on July 09, 2023, 01:43:09 AM

p2p (peer to peer) is very safe way to exchange your money, i am using binance and kucoin p2p feature, mostly i using binance it's convenient,
but the problem is still i'm not safe, because government can trace transaction history, in p2p i have to used a mobile number which is used as my payment receiving address.

That's not even a P2P when the exchange is still become the third party which has a control between the sender and receipt. If you think it's not safe since you're required to submit personal information to them, you need to use no KYC P2P or DEX. Currently Agoradesk, Robosats, and Bisq are the best choices.

Remember, you still need to transfer the coins into your non custodial wallet, don't hold your coins in P2P or DEX for long time.

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p2p (peer to peer) is very safe way to exchange your money, i am using binance and kucoin p2p feature, mostly i using binance it's convenient,
but the problem is still i'm not safe, because government can trace transaction history, in p2p i have to used a mobile number which is used as my payment receiving address.

Jawhead999

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Quote from: southerngentuk on July 08, 2023, 01:28:48 PM

Obviously, P2P trading is a quick and convenient option for investors. However, it is also a double-edged sword, leaving unpredictable consequences for investors if they do not know how to protect themselves in the market. Underestimating the security process and protecting yourself is, in a way, abetting scams that can take place in the market. That is also why KYC is always a problem when the exchange can reveal the personal information of users at any time. So having money left on the exchange for a long time is not a good problem.

Not really sure what you're talking about, but most of people will agree if P2P trading is more slower and not convenient for investors. If P2P is more quick and convenient, most people already prefer to use P2P than CEX.

I would say CEX don't have any intention to reveal their customers' KYC because there's no point for them for doing it. But the problem is about their vulnerability and the hacker can get all personal information that have been submitted.

southerngentuk

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Obviously, P2P trading is a quick and convenient option for investors. However, it is also a double-edged sword, leaving unpredictable consequences for investors if they do not know how to protect themselves in the market. Underestimating the security process and protecting yourself is, in a way, abetting scams that can take place in the market. That is also why KYC is always a problem when the exchange can reveal the personal information of users at any time. So having money left on the exchange for a long time is not a good problem.

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Quote from: mvdheuvel1983 on July 08, 2023, 12:53:11 PM

Do you then mean that Binance p2p feature is not really a what it is but a peer to intermediary? This is a bit confusing. Care to explain further?

Yes. When you use Binance p2p, you are not trading directly with the other peer, Binance is the third party or intermediary in the trade. P2p means directly from one peer to another and what ensures the safety of the traders isn't a third party but mostly a multi-sig set up, in which both parties will sign the transaction to release coins to the seller if everything goes smooth.

Quote from: mvdheuvel1983 on July 08, 2023, 12:53:11 PM

Can you mentioned another p2p exchange or rather does a platform like Remitano fall under this category? I have used it several times and whenever I encounter any issues, their customer agent are always on ground to resolve it.

I have not used remitano, but it is a centralized exchange. For p2p exchanges go to: https://kycnot.me/

umbara ardian

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Money has three functions: medium of exchange, unit of account, and store of value. So at the moment, bitcoin is almost impossible to use as a medium of exchange because each transaction takes time, costs electricity, and costs quite a lot. Bitcoin must not be a unit of account because the price fluctuates; only the function of storing value is left, so now almost everyone, including the supporters, considers cryptocurrencies to be an asset. property, not real money. So buying and selling in the market requires KYC, which is against the nature of bitcoin, but at the moment it can also be the best way to secure your interests.

mvdheuvel1983

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Quote from: Z-tight on July 06, 2023, 04:44:33 PM

This is not true, true p2p eliminates an intermediary or third party, if there is a third party it is no longer peer to peer, but peer to intermediary, and intermediary to the other peer.

Do you then mean that Binance p2p feature is not really a what it is but a peer to intermediary? This is a bit confusing. Care to explain further?

Quote

Trade in person with people you know and have probably traded with in the past. If you don't want to use that form, then choose a p2p exchange like Bisq, the trading funds would always remain in your custody through a multi-sig set up, so there is unlikely to be dispute, but if there is, Bisq arbitration would help to settle the dispute.

Can you mentioned another p2p exchange or rather does a platform like Remitano fall under this category? I have used it several times and whenever I encounter any issues, their customer agent are always on ground to resolve it.

virginorange

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Many have the opinion that P2P trading requires a trusted middleman.

Quote from: Z-tight on July 07, 2023, 05:27:06 AM

When did losing control over your funds and giving it to a third party become safer that being in control of your trading funds throughout the trade. This thread shows that many people don't know how p2p exchanges work and it would save everyone's time if they learn how it works. A multi-sig set up ensures that the trade happens without any party being scammed, it is not dangerous; you just have to know what you are doing and choose an irreversible payment option if you are the seller.

I agree with you. With the time locked mulit signature setup on Bisq no 3rd party is required in 99% of trades. If buyer and seller agree, they can close the trade without a 3rd party. If the buyer does not pay or there is other disagreement, a 3rd person from Bisq will take a look at the transaction. After the time lock runs out he can transfer the funds.

Quote from: Blitzboy on July 07, 2023, 05:12:23 AM

You've made an interesting idea in advocating for long-term trusted trading connections, however this runs opposed to the core spirit of what Bitcoin represents: decentralisation. I think it's a step backwards to advocate for a trust-based system because that means going towards a more centralised structure. We might as well be asked to put our faith in the government and huge banks all over again.

My idea in advocating for long-term trusted trading connections is very decentralized. I'm not talking about 100mn people trusting in 5 companies. I'm talking about 100mn people trusting in 10 different humans each. So everybody has 10 "friends". He trades with his 10 "friends". But everybody has 10 different friends.

Bisq is the most decentralized trading platform out there. It does not take custody of your funds, the software runs P2P and Bisq is organised as a DAO not a company.
However Bisq is one software, with one line of communication (TOR), with a couple of known developers, with a unique on chain footprint, open to everybody.

Nuking Bisq would destroy the trading ability of thousands. A decentralized trading network of 10 "friends" each is more difficult to destroy or to spy at.

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Quote from: ImThour on July 07, 2023, 01:47:07 PM

P2P is great when there is a trusted person, either Person1 or Person2 else it's not going to save your life. I use Binance's P2P system and it's pretty much great.
They have integrated some important metrics like how much time user takes to release the crypto or what's their trust rating recently.

Before that, I used to do P2P on localbitcoins. Good old days.

Peer to peer system works if there's an escrow system in place to ensure that both parties play nicely and fulfill their part of the trade. That's what CEX that offers P2P service today do it and it works even though it has some downsides like:
- Support can release your crypto without your express permission.
- Support has no way of confirming if you've received payment or not in the case of an appeal.

I used Localbitcoins a lot innthe early days as well and the service is not so different from the P2P services offered by binance and the likes.

I wonder if we'll ever get a truly decentralized peer to peer on/off ramp service that is governed by only the code and no intermediary. The bounds of technology is continually being pushed with it passing day. It might not be long now.

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Quote from: SamReomo on July 07, 2023, 04:32:43 AM

-snip
However, if there was such a platform on a decentralized exchange then I would definitely go with that, but currently the only safe options are those exchanges that require KYC and they have their name in the crypto-world.

We all expect the growth and improvement of decentralized exchanges, but I am not overly optimistic about them. It's not that I don't trust them, but centralized exchanges have been around for a long time, and I don't see why they can't create a good platform that can compete directly with centralized exchanges until now. Decentralized exchanges have a lot of inadequacies and limitations, so their use is really an obstacle for many people. I would also use decentralized exchanges if they can provide the same services as centralized exchanges are providing us.

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In my experience, p2p helps me a lot in terms of cash-in and cash out using Binance. And I don't see anything wrong with that, even if others say that there is a risk as long as you know how to be careful, I think it's fine. As long as you know how to look for legit middlemen or merchants, it's okay. And I've been experiencing this for several months without any problems.

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Quote from: glendall on July 08, 2023, 09:25:05 AM

P2P is not an alternative for me because I personally have experienced losses when doing P2P transactions. without intermediaries
So after that incident I had more transactions in the exchange even though I did KYC but my security was guaranteed

Everything is at risk, although P2P ensures our privacy, the risk is that we can also lose our assets if we deal with the wrong person. Besides, trading through exchanges will make us lose our privacy, but it is safer to have an intermediary involved to protect our interests. Both have their pros and cons, and it's up to each of us to choose the method that's right for us. For trading from bitcoin to fiat and vice versa, I still prefer to use centralized exchanges rather than using pure P2P.

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Quote from: glendall on July 08, 2023, 09:25:05 AM

P2P is not an alternative for me because I personally have experienced losses when doing P2P transactions. without intermediaries
So after that incident I had more transactions in the exchange even though I did KYC but my security was guaranteed

How did that happened? I mean, wasn't that p2p in person? If that is the case, well, that's fucked up. We never know who's at the other side and we can't see faces, listen voices, etc! I'm sorry for yuor loss but p2p, in presence, is probably one of the best ways of buying Bitcoin!

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P2P is not an alternative for me because I personally have experienced losses when doing P2P transactions. without intermediaries
So after that incident I had more transactions in the exchange even though I did KYC but my security was guaranteed

Topic: P2P will save your life - page 2. (Read 559 times)