Topic: P2P will save your life - page 4. (Read 559 times)

P2P on Binance is not really a peer-to-peer transaction because a middleman is involved. But I agree with what you said, P2P transactions are really too risky without an intermediary to guarantee us. I don't want to lose my privacy either, but between losing my privacy or the safety of my property, I would also choose safety first. Making money today is extremely difficult, and we should protect it rather than take privacy too seriously, but there are many risks to face. I really have no problem using centralized exchanges as long as we never use them to store assets for long periods.

Yes, this is similar to what I am about to say, there will always be a middleman for a peer-to-peer transaction to become successful, lack of a middleman is what causes scams on p2p networks, and there are few platforms that use Bots as the middleman and many people lost money this way, this is why I like Binance peer 2 peer because they prevent scam or someone cheating the other, I know it's not a decentralized exchange but I am willing to keep a clean record online so that I won't need to start evading KYC requirements, I don't care much about privacy and other, there is no reason for me to hide.

Yeah, @OP is exaggerated the story where it can be easily just to invest 90% in Bitcoin and use 10% for monthly spending.

If you talk about become a Bitcoin maximalist by maximizing the decentralization and privacy advantages in Bitcoin, you're ruin the decentralization if you start to trust someone because Bitcoin space has a idiom "don't trust, verify". There's no way to verify someone mind, activity etc, even you have traded 100 times with them, there's always a chance one of them might turn become a criminal and back stabbed you.

You can directly use bitcoin to buy food at stores accept it.

However mostly you will have to cash it out to fiat and use fiat to buy food to eat. It means you likely always need to have cash in your pocket so if you receive your salary in fiat currency, don't use all of it to buy bitcoin. Because later you will have to sell your bitcoin to get fiat currency.

If you do fiat -> bitcoin -> fiat, you will have to make two trades and if you don't want to store your bitcoin in online accounts, you have to do two on chain transactions for withdrawal after you buy it and deposit when you want to sell it for cash.

Trading fees from two trades, transactions fees from two on-chain transactions will consume a lot of satoshi. Reserve some cash to use and don't make on-chain transactions or trades when it is unnecessary and if you can plan to avoid it.

This is not true, true p2p eliminates an intermediary or third party, if there is a third party it is no longer peer to peer, but peer to intermediary, and intermediary to the other peer.
Trade in person with people you know and have probably traded with in the past. If you don't want to use that form, then choose a p2p exchange like Bisq, the trading funds would always remain in your custody through a multi-sig set up, so there is unlikely to be dispute, but if there is, Bisq arbitration would help to settle the dispute.

A beautiful write up which is good on paper only but does not fit in reality. Hope you know that running a p2p platform still requires a third party who is trusted to come in between the trade otherwise you will be sorry for not taking precaution.

A p2p market is a world where you have no knowledge who you are trading with because everyone is anonymous so in the event that your transaction does not go as expected without a third party (whom can also pose as a serious danger because you don't know anything about him/her or whom) you should not go crying on social media looking for who will help because your funds will be gone without a trace.
If you don't want government control of any form, then go find an island to leave where you will be totally out of civilization.

The bank notes are going to disappear in a few months to a year after CBDC. Just think people are forced to use CBDC because they can't buy any stuff from grocery stores if you're not using CBDC. The government will make it also available to all, probably even giving phones to the elderly so they can receive stimulus packages thru CBDC.

Easier to distribute stimi to people that has CBDC account on their phones. You'll see the benefit so they'd really going to sign up for it.

In a situation when a government asserts total control over the payment systems, P2P may not be a solution. You could still do it, sure, but you could be facing investigation for suspicious activities if you keep sending/receiving money from unaffiliated strangers.
The only true way to prevent censorship of financial transaction is to not get corrupt governments get into power, and create serious political resistance when there are signals of government overreaching their powers.

That's the problem I have with many bitcoiners. They're way too tolerant of any attacks on cash payment, or sometimes even cheering for them hoping that "It's all good because bitcoin will replace cash". That's a silly approach. If the rulers won't tolerate cash because they can't control it, then they will introduce a crackdown on Bitcoin, it's just a matter of time.


It seems inevitable to be honest even just due to impracticality of paper cash and high processing costs. You don't even need CBDC for that, cash use is already on steep decline. Masses will always go with the easiest and most comfortable solutions, and digital payments are far easier than handling cash. At very best we could hope for cash to function as a niche way of payment. There are countries like Slovakia who actually added right to cash payments to their constitution. And to me being able to use it (even if 99% of the population don't) is good enough.

Do you think that CBDC will eradicate Paper Money? I don't think so and even if it's going to happen it will be very slow because we have people that don't want to use digital payment still, it's going to be a matter of choice, choose what suits your convenience.

We can't do without the Banks, to spend Bitcoin in the real world you need to convert into Fiat and that money is heading into your Bank account anyway, what we want to prevent is cleaning every traces of Bitcoin money into our Bank accounts, that's why I personally use P2P trades.

The exchange between Bitcoin into Fiat is controlled by YOU, not the government or the Banks, no one forces you to sign up on a centralized exchange and pass their KYC, everyone knows what KYC requirements means when asked.

A real P2P platform is one step ahead of Banks, government and other centralized puppet companies, it's left for you to make your choice wisely.

About the Tainted Coins, it can still be avoided, the problem with privacy and anonymity in crypto space starts with a user, who look for centralized platforms themselves and passed their KYC, you want to stay out of sight? Don't ever pass KYc and stay away from every God damn centralized exchanges.

a. In a way I agree with you but think you should not advertise a p2p platform because that's what it seems you're doing right now! ... your discussion is actually helpful and I will ADD that for a trader to have little worries when trading for whatever purpose hisor her Bitcoin considering the government regulations on reaching a compromise between BTC and fiat and consumer goods(e.gCBDC) and already existing trading platforms, he or she should be aware of these so to be on a safer side:
Diversify Trading Platforms: Instead of relying solely on P2P platforms, consider using a combination of centralized exchanges and reputable P2P platforms. Centralized exchanges offer liquidity and a wide range of trading options, while P2P platforms provide privacy and direct peer-to-peer transactions. Diversifying platforms can help mitigate the risks associated with deficiencies in a single platform.

*Stay Informed:Stay updated with the latest news and developments related to CBDCs, as they may impact the trading landscape. Being aware of any regulatory changes or potential shifts in the market will allow you to adapt your trading strategies accordingly. I recommend this always 👌

Explore Decentralized Exchanges (DEX):DEX platforms operate on blockchain technology, allowing users to trade bitcoin and other digital currencies directly without the need for intermediaries. Consider exploring DEX platforms that offer a high level of security, transparency, and user control over funds.

Secure wallet usage: Regardless of the trading platforms you choose, prioritize the security of your Bitcoin holdings. Use secure hardware wallets or cold storage solutions to protect your funds from potential hacking or theft.

Engage in Trusted Networks: Joining trusted communities or networks of Bitcoin traders can provide opportunities for secure, peer-to-peer trading. Participating in forums, social media groups, or local meetups can help you connect with reputable traders and reduce the risks associated with trading on unfamiliar platforms.(Just like this platform...so congratulations you're in the right place 😁)
Remember, trading Bitcoin involves inherent risks, and no direct method can completely eliminate all potential issues. It's crucial to conduct thorough research, exercise caution, and make informed decisions based on your risk tolerance and trading goals.

b. You did overlook the fact that no although no system can be completely trusted, you can reduce risk by taking diverse precautions

c. No I'm not in Germany!

Opinion: Bitcoiners should build a trusted decentralized network to become more resilient against possible future crisis.



Problem: Fiat system is controlled corrupt people
Bartering is inconvenient. I’m a plumber and want to grill a beef steak. But the cow farmer does not need a plumber now. Money makes the marketplace more efficient. The plumber can fix a pipe for somebody else for cash and spend cash to buy his steak. He can even safe his money and buy the steak later. However, money printing erodes the purchasing power of fiat. Canceling bank accounts, so a protesting Canadian trucker can’t buy his breakfast, erodes the transaction value of fiat. This might become even worse with the introduction of CBDC, which could be programmed to be redeemed only for good that the state deems appropriate.

Bitcoin is low inflation and high censorship resistance
Bitcoin has predictable and low monetary inflation and has a high degree of censorship resistance overcoming the problems of fiat. However, Bitcoin is not widely accepted as a payment for goods and services. This requires you to exchange your fiat salary for Bitcoin to safe and to exchange your Bitcoin for fiat to spend.

nice: salary in BTC -> food
reality: salary in fait -> BTC -> fiat -> food

How regulation conquers Bitcoin to rob savers of their savings and reintroduce censorship
The exchange between BTC and fiat is controlled by the government, banks, payment processors and centralized exchanges. They censor people and transactions reintroducing censorship on the Bitcoin onramp and offramp. Due to KYC, your identity is linked to how many bitcoins your bought. People more powerful than you (government or criminals who hacked the exchange database) can threaten violence rob you of most or all your Bitcoin reintroducing the problem that powerful humans can rob the savings of powerless humans.

Trading Peer to peer offers some protection
The obvious solution is ditching centralized exchanges and replacing them with decentralized exchanges most prominent would be Bisq. Bisq is open source, runs over TOR and has very little centralized attack surface. I like Bisq a lot, but don’t want to trust entirely on Bisq.

Trading BTC over Bisq is no silver bullet.
1. Single communication route: Bisq runs over TOR. However, TOR can and is currently DDoS-attacked. Government can take measures against TOR or against internet traffic leaving the country.

2. Tainted coins: BTC has a transparent ledger. Everybody can check the history of each transaction. The government / banks / exchanges can then define “bad” transaction histories. If you send a Bitcoin transaction with a “bad” history to an exchange, your account gets frozen. US announced interacting with certain BTC addresses gets you published with several years of prison time. Government restrictions tend to grow. It is possible that the government tries to define more histories as “bad” e.g. coin joins being bad or coins bought on exchanges without KYC being bad. It is also possible that the government will try to extend the regulation to miners banning them form mining transactions with a bad history. The problem is, that the coin trades on Bisq can be singled out by coin analytics companies. The government can then make laws against people using Bisq or spending coins with a Bisq-history. Additionally, a small minority of coins sold on Bisq has a bad origin (Hack or Scam).

3. Flexibility: Let’s say you are protesting peacefully against your government without breaking any laws. This annoys politicians, who skip due process and just block your bank account. Now you can’t pay rent, can’t pay your utility bills and after cash gets replaced by CBDC you can’t even buy food. On Bisq you can sell BTC for a bank transfer or cash. You might not be able to pay some bills with cash.


Supplementing Bisq with long term trusted trading relationships builds resilience
Before you have problems every Bitcoiner builds up 5-10 trading relationships. As the years go on trust increases. This gives you additional options exchanging BTC<->goods/services.

1. Multiple communication routes: You will know each other’s mobile phone numbers, and email addresses making your communication more robust in case one communication method is not available.

2. Coins can’t be marked by coin analytics as tainted: Since you trust each other you don’t need custody wallets or time locked multi sig transactions, which would increase suspicion of Chainanalysis. Also you know the history of the coins of your trading counterparty. You don’t accidently by coins with bad history like in Bisq and safe time checking the history of the coins you bought.

3. Flexibility: If you and your trading counterparty trust each other, you have great flexibility. Pay BTC get voucher from your grocery shop. Pay BTC get grass fed beef send to you. Pay BTC get your utility bill paid. Pay BTC get a gold coin send to you. With trust you have unlimited options. You also build up goodwill, if you run into troubles the other person will spend more time to amend his payment method to help you out.


Do you agree with me?
Did I overlook something?
Do you live in Germany or within EU/SEPA and want do build up a network and sell me some BTC against EUR long term?