P2POOL vs. Pooled Mining - something stinks here - page 3.

ThiagoCMC

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฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Frizz23 on February 09, 2012, 12:56:59 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

So you are afraid of ghosts. Since you can't give a specific complaint, this is what it boils down to.

Seriously, Holliday, why do you take this so personal!? Maybe you should take a ... Holiday? Wink

Because I've been trying to promote network decentralization for ten months.

We finally have a pool that can help accomplish it and you make a post, with no evidence, suggesting something is wrong with P2Pool, when it's simply variance.

So, show me evidence it's more than variance. At least make a lucid argument other than, "nasty (cryptographic) stuff".

I take it personally because I think Bitcoin can change the world for the better, yes I'm a fanatic optimist. I think it requires a healthy network to grow. I think a healthy network is something other than the network we see today for several reasons. I think P2Pool can have a large impact on that and change it for the better.

+++++++1000000000

flower1024

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Frizz23 on February 09, 2012, 12:56:59 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

So you are afraid of ghosts. Since you can't give a specific complaint, this is what it boils down to.

Seriously, Holliday, why do you take this so personal!? Maybe you should take a ... Holiday? Wink

Because I've been trying to promote network decentralization for ten months.

We finally have a pool that can help accomplish it and you make a post, with no evidence, suggesting something is wrong with P2Pool, when it's simply variance.

So, show me evidence it's more than variance. At least make a lucid argument other than, "nasty (cryptographic) stuff".

I take it personally because I think Bitcoin can change the world for the better, yes I'm a fanatic optimist. I think it requires a healthy network to grow. I think a healthy network is something other than the network we see today for several reasons. I think P2Pool can have a large impact on that and change it for the better.

+++++1

Frizz23

hero member

Activity: 1162

Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

So you are afraid of ghosts. Since you can't give a specific complaint, this is what it boils down to.

Seriously, Holliday, why do you take this so personal!? Maybe you should take a ... Holiday? Wink

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: thirdlight on February 09, 2012, 10:13:21 AM

Quote from: Frizz23 on February 09, 2012, 10:06:36 AM

With 200GH/s at hand one could do all kinds of nasty (cryptographic) stuff ...

IF there was a one.
IF you are concerned about your hash being misdirected, have a look through the contents of your p2pool directory. All the scripts you are asking your computer to run are there, in human readable form.

Remember, p2pool doesn't have an "operator". You create your own work from your own bitcoind, and share it with others on the understanding that they do the same.

Exactly and this is what people don't understand.

p2pool is solo mining where solo miners share the reward.

You could make an "manual p2pool" by doing this:
1) 20 trusted friends may an agreement to all solo mine and share the rewards.
2) They decide on a lower than full block difficulty to keep track of work as "shares" earned.
3) When someone finds a block he emails the other 19 friends.
4) All friends email each other a list of the shares they have completed in cronological order in the last 2 days.
5) Each friend runs a script which compiles a master list of the last 1.3 million shares (if difficulty 1).
6) The script determines the payout % of each friend.
7) Once all friends have reached consensus the block finder pays out each friend their share
repeat steps 3-7 for each block found.

Obviously there are three major issues:
a) it is a lot of manual work.
b) it is open to cheating and requires implicit trust of the other friends.
c) due to limits of a & b there are scalability issues.

p2pool simply takes the "manual block sharing among friends" automates it, and puts in cryptographic safeguards which make it impossible for any "friend" to cheat the rest.

TL/DR. p2pool is solo mining with shared rewards.

thirdlight

sr. member

Activity: 445

Merit: 250

Quote from: Frizz23 on February 09, 2012, 10:06:36 AM

With 200GH/s at hand one could do all kinds of nasty (cryptographic) stuff ...

IF there was a one.
IF you are concerned about your hash being misdirected, have a look through the contents of your p2pool directory. All the scripts you are asking your computer to run are there, in human readable form.

Remember, p2pool doesn't have an "operator". You create your own work from your own bitcoind, and share it with others on the understanding that they do the same.

gnar1ta$

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Activity: 798

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Quote from: Gabi on February 09, 2012, 10:07:02 AM

Quote from: gnar1ta$ on February 09, 2012, 09:33:27 AM

Quote from: Frizz23 on February 09, 2012, 09:29:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

So, no comment from the OP? You felt so strongly to start this thread, do you still feel the same? Is something still fishy or was it variance after all?

Even more fishy. As soon as I started this thread the pool miraculously starts finding blocks again.

That is fishy...I wouldn't expect a lucky streak after an unlucky streak, the math just doesn't add up, how would that ever average out!?!?

Are you joking? Do you know what "random" and what "probability" mean?

Sorry, forgot the Roll Eyes

no coffee yet...

Gabi

legendary

Activity: 1148

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

Quote from: gnar1ta$ on February 09, 2012, 09:33:27 AM

Quote from: Frizz23 on February 09, 2012, 09:29:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

So, no comment from the OP? You felt so strongly to start this thread, do you still feel the same? Is something still fishy or was it variance after all?

Even more fishy. As soon as I started this thread the pool miraculously starts finding blocks again.

That is fishy...I wouldn't expect a lucky streak after an unlucky streak, the math just doesn't add up, how would that ever average out!?!?

Are you joking? Do you know what "random" and what "probability" mean?

Frizz23

hero member

Activity: 1162

Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

ROFL. So... someone was hoarding block again, ehh?

No. Not hoarding (Bitcoin) blocks. But miners can do/mine all sorts of things. Not just Bitcoins.

With 200GH/s at hand one could do all kinds of nasty (cryptographic) stuff ...

kano

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Activity: 4592

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Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: gnar1ta$ on February 09, 2012, 09:33:27 AM

Quote from: Frizz23 on February 09, 2012, 09:29:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

So, no comment from the OP? You felt so strongly to start this thread, do you still feel the same? Is something still fishy or was it variance after all?

Even more fishy. As soon as I started this thread the pool miraculously starts finding blocks again.

That is fishy...I wouldn't expect a lucky streak after an unlucky streak, the math just doesn't add up, how would that ever average out!?!?

There is no expectation.
History has no effect on future mining.
It's simple 'random' statistics and no where near the large number theory (law of large numbers)

gnar1ta$

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Quote from: Frizz23 on February 09, 2012, 09:29:46 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

So, no comment from the OP? You felt so strongly to start this thread, do you still feel the same? Is something still fishy or was it variance after all?

Even more fishy. As soon as I started this thread the pool miraculously starts finding blocks again.

That is fishy...I wouldn't expect a lucky streak after an unlucky streak, the math just doesn't add up, how would that ever average out!?!?

Frizz23

hero member

Activity: 1162

Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

So, no comment from the OP? You felt so strongly to start this thread, do you still feel the same? Is something still fishy or was it variance after all?

Even more fishy. As soon as I started this thread the pool miraculously starts finding blocks again.

ThiagoCMC

legendary

Activity: 1204

Merit: 1000

฿itcoin: Currency of Resistance!

Anyway, P2Pool do not stinks. Wink

thirdlight

sr. member

Activity: 445

Merit: 250

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on February 08, 2012, 04:14:15 PM

Deepbit only pays 8% of what p2pool pays, where is the rest going? (Hides from Tycho

).

I like this one! Grin

I thought I was doing a good job illustrating variance, and random, and stuff, hoping people would think "No, you wouldn't keep receiving all those btc, it's just there's been an unusual number of blocks in a short space... Oh, right, sometimes there's many, sometimes few. It varies. Varies. ... Like 'variance'. .. Random .. Oh ... Geddit!!!"

But no, still not getting through..

Quote from: Tittiez on February 08, 2012, 04:23:00 PM

Just to clarify I have recieved about .45 Bitcoin for mining for 24-30 Hours on p2pool, and this is with a 6850 @ 260MHash/s. There is real variance between payouts, seeing as I usually get around .17-.18 on slushes for mining 24 hours.

BUT, don't get too excited, this is also coming from the different people that send out donations to p2pool miners!

The subsidy is great, and really helping to drive adoption, but it's not > 300 btc / day !

Gabi

legendary

Activity: 1148

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

Are you sure your miner don't have the 1 second lag thing bug?

Tittiez

hero member

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Merit: 500

Just to clarify I have recieved about .45 Bitcoin for mining for 24-30 Hours on p2pool, and this is with a 6850 @ 260MHash/s. There is real variance between payouts, seeing as I usually get around .17-.18 on slushes for mining 24 hours.

BUT, don't get too excited, this is also coming from the different people that send out donations to p2pool miners!

I will say though I have only made about 1/8th of what I usually make from a litecoin pool with p2pool.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: thirdlight on February 08, 2012, 04:07:22 PM

Sweet! So two thirds of DeepBit's 24 hour payment in 2 hours. p2pool pays 12 x DeepBit. p2pool ftw.

If only every hour was like the 6 earlier today.

Oh yes, variance....

Someone start a new scam thread. Deepbit only pays 8% of what p2pool pays, where is the rest going? (Hides from Tycho

).

Recommended thread title: "P2POOL vs. Pooled Mining - something stinks here 2.0"

thirdlight

sr. member

Activity: 445

Merit: 250

Sweet! So two thirds of DeepBit's 24 hour payment in 2 hours. p2pool pays 12 x DeepBit. p2pool ftw.

If only every hour was like the 6 earlier today.

Oh yes, variance....

martychubbs

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Quote from: Tittiez on February 08, 2012, 04:01:30 PM

Quote from: thirdlight on February 08, 2012, 09:45:28 AM

I started mining on p2pool at 12:00 GMT today with 1.4GH/s.
I stopped at 14:00.

I have received 0.64 btc. How much would I have got on DeepBit for those 2 hours?

According to DeepBit's PPS calculator.

I love Tittiez, too!

Tittiez

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Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Quote from: thirdlight on February 08, 2012, 09:45:28 AM

I started mining on p2pool at 12:00 GMT today with 1.4GH/s.
I stopped at 14:00.

I have received 0.64 btc. How much would I have got on DeepBit for those 2 hours?

According to DeepBit's PPS calculator.

westkybitcoins

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Firstbits: Compromised. Thanks, Android!