Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion - page 2.

Darker45

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1860

Quote from: Bttzed03 on October 05, 2021, 04:13:00 AM

Quote from: Darker45 on October 04, 2021, 11:58:12 PM

Quote from: paxmao on October 04, 2021, 04:11:47 AM

~
Philippines Arthur Tugade, Secretary of Transportation[35]

~snip~

I've read Sec. Tugade's statement about the matter. It appears those offshore investments were already declared publicly in his SALN and he claimed it was a legal/valid move. I'm yet to read statements from the other people on the list. If all of those accounts were deemed legal by our very own laws (tax avoidance), it is the task of our legislators to do something about it (change the tax laws). Annoying as it is to us commoners, it's still the law.

Of course, it was both valid and legal. Tax avoidance has always been legal in this country. Tax evasion is not.

Accordingly, it was also declared in his SALN since 2012. However, such declaration is made under offshore investment, which could either mean deposits in a foreign bank or shares of foreign companies. His was obviously a company. It wasn't simply an offshore asset; it was an offshore business interest which was never declared as such in his SALN. In other words, there could have been unpaid taxes from the gains of this business interest.

Anyway, I'm more than sure this man has something to say which would exonerate him. As always, this is expected. The law will always be in their favor.

Sources:

1. https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/investigative/arthur-tugade-keeps-offshore-account-pandora-papers-icij
2. https://www.rappler.com/business/tugade-statement-offshore-investments-pandora-papers-icij

Ucy

sr. member

Activity: 2674

Merit: 403

Compare rates on different exchanges & swap.

Wish the list is very detailed, with proofs on how each individual broke the law with this acts. And I will probably need to hear directly from those accused.
I don't think this is the right way to pass judgment on people even though I would want those who truely did wrong to be given the punishment they deserve.
As far as I can tell, it's not good for people to dodge tax they deserve to pay, but I'm sure if it's a crime to hide your money unless it's not allowed by the law for good reasons.

Bttzed03

legendary

Activity: 2114

Merit: 1150

https://bitcoincleanup.com/

Quote from: Darker45 on October 04, 2021, 11:58:12 PM

Quote from: paxmao on October 04, 2021, 04:11:47 AM

~
Philippines Arthur Tugade, Secretary of Transportation[35]

Ugh, how shameful! It appears The Philippines is the country to beat here.

A developing country whose disparity between the rich and the poor is so wide one cannot imagine ways to narrow it down. In The Philippines, one rich person could literally spend hundreds of millions in signature bags while an entire family mired in poverty cannot even manage to eat a single complete meal their whole lives.

The least that these businesspeople could do is to pay the right taxes and hope that they will end up wisely spent. They couldn't even manage to do that. On the other hand, many of the politicians above have always been doing their thing in the name of good governance. Sometimes, you get carried away by their sweet talks. But thanks to a document such as the Pandora Papers I am reminded not to ever trust them.

I couldn't be blamed for my cynical attitude.

I've read Sec. Tugade's statement about the matter. It appears those offshore investments were already declared publicly in his SALN and he claimed it was a legal/valid move. I'm yet to read statements from the other people on the list. If all of those accounts were deemed legal by our very own laws (tax avoidance), it is the task of our legislators to do something about it (change the tax laws). Annoying as it is to us commoners, it's still the law.

NeuroticFish

legendary

Activity: 3668

Merit: 6382

Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!

Quote from: NeuroticFish on October 04, 2021, 09:41:01 AM

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 04, 2021, 06:19:02 AM

I'd love to see some American ones, because I know damn well my country isn't exempt from this.

While I understand what you meant (U.S of A), both Americas are represented, from Mexico to Argentina and Chile.
But you're right, US and Canada are strangely missing this time.

Update: I've found out on Wikipedia that USA and Canada are also represented. Strangely no politicians, but still something...

Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on October 04, 2021, 05:06:58 AM

Is this different than the Panama Papers?

Yes, it's different. Wikipedia tells at the start of Pandora Papers page:

Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_Papers

Not to be confused with Panama Papers or Paradise Papers.

Darker45

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1860

Quote from: paxmao on October 04, 2021, 04:11:47 AM

Quote

Politicians

Philippines Andres D. Bautista, former Chairman of the Commission on Elections and Chairman of the Presidential Commission on Good Government[32]
Philippines Rolando Gapud, businessman and former associate of the late dictator Ferdinand Marcos[33]
Philippines The family of Win Gatchalian and Rex Gatchalian, Senator of the Philippines and current mayor of Valenzuela City[34]
Philippines Arthur Tugade, Secretary of Transportation[35]
Philippines Dennis Uy, businessman, Honorary Consul of Kazakhstan to the Philippines and business associate to Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte[36]

Businesspeople

Philippines The Aboitiz family, Philippine businessperson[41]
Philippines Joselito Campos, Jr., son of Jose Yao Campos, Philippine businessperson[42]
Philippines Helen Dee, daughter of Alfonso Yuchengco, Philippine businessperson and banker[43]
Philippines The Gaisano family, Philippine businessperson[44]
Philippines Oscar Hilado, Philippine businessperson[45]
Philippines The Tantoco family, Philippine businessperson[46]
Philippines The Wenceslao family, Philippine businessperson[47]
Philippines Enrique K. Razon, Philippine businessperson[48]
Philippines The estate of Henry Sy including his children Teresita Sy-Coson, Philippine businessperson[49]

Ugh, how shameful! It appears The Philippines is the country to beat here.

A developing country whose disparity between the rich and the poor is so wide one cannot imagine ways to narrow it down. In The Philippines, one rich person could literally spend hundreds of millions in signature bags while an entire family mired in poverty cannot even manage to eat a single complete meal their whole lives.

The least that these businesspeople could do is to pay the right taxes and hope that they will end up wisely spent. They couldn't even manage to do that. On the other hand, many of the politicians above have always been doing their thing in the name of good governance. Sometimes, you get carried away by their sweet talks. But thanks to a document such as the Pandora Papers I am reminded not to ever trust them.

I couldn't be blamed for my cynical attitude.

Poker Player

legendary

Activity: 1372

Merit: 2017

To me, although I prefer a society with low taxes, and it seems normal to me to want to minimize the payment of taxes, what surprises me is how hypocritical you have to be to be a head of state/government/important politician and commit tax fraud. That is, you are forcing people to pay taxes, usually by spending more and raising taxes, while you hide your wealth to avoid paying them.

Mr Guillotin invented a good system to deal with these cases.

Quote from: paxmao on October 04, 2021, 04:11:47 AM

While the common guy is subject to taxes with no loophole or hideout..

In reality with crypto the common guy has an easier time hiding what little wealth he has from the authorities.

Hydrogen

legendary

Activity: 2562

Merit: 1441

When President Ferdinand Marcos of the philippines passed away in 1989. His expected billions in savings could not be found. When Muammar Gaddafi died, his billions also could not be found. There are many world leaders whose billions could not be found. Perhaps due to them being stashed in offshore tax havens? While some might believe this is a new trend, it could date back many decades. Arguably the practice could date back centuries, or millennia in one form or another.

While the media will illustrate offshore tax havens as privilege and freedom for the rich and powerful, who don't pay taxes. There are drawbacks to the arrangement, which are not obvious. Offshore tax havens aren't necessarily something to be envious of, for a variety of reasons, perhaps some know what they are.

el kaka22

legendary

Activity: 3654

Merit: 1165

www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games

This has been out a long time ago as well. It was called panama papers at the time, there were tons of famous and rich people who took their money to panama and saved on taxes thanks to that, do you know what happened? After 100+ billion dollars on taxes got avoided thanks to panama rules and so forth and rich people got to save all that money instead of paying taxes on it, the only thing that happened was the journalist got murdered (officially ruled as suicide I believe) for outing those rich people.

Same as 2008, when the journalist who figured out that banks were playing with fire and knew the risks when they did mortgage bonds and they still did it anyway because they didn't care if they lost since they knew they would be bailed out, so took low risk on high reward thanks to government backing them, that journalist was jailed for breaking confidentiality law. So, when the most powerful people do something illegal, who is there to stop them? Nobody has more power than them so they can do whatever they like.

hatshepsut93

legendary

Activity: 3024

Merit: 2148

Tax evasion? There's a lot of political figures on that list, and I doubt they are evading taxes on their government salary or their side hustles, lol. They are hiding their bribes and the funds they have embezzled.

Quote from: paxmao on October 04, 2021, 04:11:47 AM

While the common guy is subject to taxes with no loophole or hideout, many of the wealthy around the world go about their business in a completely different way: not paying taxes.

It depends on where you live. Maybe in the US or in Europe the small guy will be prosecuted for even small-scale tax evasion, but in developing world tax officials don't bother with small fry, so people who get paid in cash just never pay any income tax in their life.

MNbag

member

Activity: 116

Merit: 45

Well, I am glad that these kinds of shenanigans have been revealed to the public.

Just expect some "breaking news" to out shadow this revelation soon...

Remember that the rich ain't your friends, they are just using you as a way to maintain their position.

NeuroticFish

legendary

Activity: 3668

Merit: 6382

Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!

Quote from: paxmao on October 04, 2021, 05:37:47 AM

If it is in Bitcoin Discussion, I assume that it is on how this topic relates to bitcoin, so I am going to leave it here as well since it seems an Economy related matter for me.

Sure, it's up to you. I've posted to avoid duplication - also the duplication of replies/ideas.
This way people can read in both areas and post what/where it suits better.

Quote from: bitmover on October 04, 2021, 05:49:30 AM

I think this is very impressive.

It is, still, I feel that's by far only the tip of the iceberg.

Quote from: bitmover on October 04, 2021, 05:49:30 AM

Certainly bitcoin is an amazing alternative for such scenario, but it's volatility is a problem

I don't think that's a problem. At least it's not as long as they don't go all in bitcoin. Most of that money put aside is for long term. And for long term Bitcoin goes upwards, making the volatility rather negligible.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on October 04, 2021, 06:19:02 AM

I'd love to see some American ones, because I know damn well my country isn't exempt from this.

While I understand what you meant (U.S of A), both Americas are represented, from Mexico to Argentina and Chile.
But you're right, US and Canada are strangely missing this time.

The Sceptical Chymist

legendary

Activity: 3500

Merit: 6981

Top Crypto Casino

Quote from: NeuroticFish on October 04, 2021, 04:18:01 AM

It's already dicussed here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/pandora-papers-they-said-bitcoin-was-used-to-avoid-taxes-think-again-5363798 Wink

I think this discussion belongs in Economics, and I'm glad OP posted this here, as I have Bitcoin Discussion on ignore.

None of this is surprising, even with names named--tax evasion among the ultra-wealthy and politically powerful has been going on for longer than any of us has been alive. I think there are simply better ways of detecting that evasion these days (and probably more laws as well).

I see a lot of Asian names, and European ones as well. I'd love to see some American ones, because I know damn well my country isn't exempt from this.

Kong Hey Pakboy

member

Activity: 1120

Merit: 68

Quote from: paxmao on October 04, 2021, 05:37:47 AM

Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on October 04, 2021, 05:06:58 AM

~~~

Yes it is. Have a look at the links and see that the amount of documents, information and the people involved is massive and larger than the Panama papers.

I did check the article, it's definitely bigger and there seems to be more officials and royalties involved in this one than that of Panama Papers.

bitmover

legendary

Activity: 2352

Merit: 6089

bitcoindata.science

Quote from: paxmao on October 04, 2021, 04:11:47 AM

Brazil Paulo Guedes, Minister of the Economy[12][23][24]

I discovered this yesterday. I think this is very impressive.

Guedes is the new Minister of economy (since 2019) .
And he is worried about our fiat currency fluctuations (Brazilian real). He has millions of usd in an offshore account.

The same for Mauricio macri and other right wing politicians.

This is a clear indication of how much it is important to have a diversification in a strong currency, specially if you live a developing country which has a weak fiat currency.

Certainly bitcoin is an amazing alternative for such scenario, but it's volatility is a problem

paxmao

legendary

Activity: 2366

Merit: 1624

Do not die for Putin

Quote from: NeuroticFish on October 04, 2021, 04:18:01 AM

It's already dicussed here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/pandora-papers-they-said-bitcoin-was-used-to-avoid-taxes-think-again-5363798 Wink

Thanks for the link. If it is in Bitcoin Discussion, I assume that it is on how this topic relates to bitcoin, so I am going to leave it here as well since it seems an Economy related matter for me.

Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on October 04, 2021, 05:06:58 AM

Is this different than the Panama Papers? That paper too got some big names in their lists too. This paper here and the people on the list is the reason why you don't trust the elites and that the only way to move forward is shake the hierarchy and let them all fall down. We need to open our eyes regarding this one because this is a clear evidence that they're all leeches and the taxes only came from us the working class.

Yes it is. Have a look at the links and see that the amount of documents, information and the people involved is massive and larger than the Panama papers.

Kong Hey Pakboy

member

Activity: 1120

Merit: 68

Is this different than the Panama Papers? That paper too got some big names in their lists too. This paper here and the people on the list is the reason why you don't trust the elites and that the only way to move forward is shake the hierarchy and let them all fall down. We need to open our eyes regarding this one because this is a clear evidence that they're all leeches and the taxes only came from us the working class.

NeuroticFish

legendary

Activity: 3668

Merit: 6382

Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!

It's already dicussed here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/pandora-papers-they-said-bitcoin-was-used-to-avoid-taxes-think-again-5363798 Wink

paxmao

legendary

Activity: 2366

Merit: 1624

Do not die for Putin

While the common guy is subject to taxes with no loophole or hideout, many of the wealthy around the world go about their business in a completely different way: not paying taxes. The Pandora Papers, a recent journalism work, shows factually, with names and dates how this is happening while you pay your taxes.

Please, note among the names the Queen of England (curiously, not under "Royalty").

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-58780561

Quote

The Pandora Papers is a leak of almost 12 million documents that reveals hidden wealth, tax avoidance and, in some cases, money laundering by some of the world's rich and powerful.

Quote

The files expose how some of the most powerful people in the world - including more than 330 politicians from 90 countries - use secret offshore companies to hide their wealth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_named_in_the_Pandora_Papers

Quote

Heads of state

Jordan Abdullah II, King of Jordan[3]
Dominican Republic Luis Abinader, President of the Dominican Republic[4]
Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev, President of Azerbaijan[5]
Montenegro Milo Đukanović, President of Montenegro[6]
Kenya Uhuru Kenyatta, President of Kenya[6]
Ecuador Guillermo Lasso, President of Ecuador[7]
Gabon Ali Bongo Ondimba, President of Gabon[6]
Chile Sebastián Piñera, President of Chile[6]
Republic of the Congo Denis Sassou Nguesso, President of the Republic of the Congo[8]
Qatar Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, Emir of Qatar[9]
United Kingdom Elizabeth II, Queen of the United Kingdom[10]
Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky, President of Ukraine[11]

Former heads of state

Paraguay Horacio Cartes, former president of Paraguay[12]
Colombia César Gaviria, former president of Colombia.[13]
Peru Pedro Pablo Kuczynski, former president of Peru[12]
Honduras Porfirio Lobo Sosa, former president of Honduras[12]
Panama Ricardo Martinelli, former president of Panama[12]
Colombia Andrés Pastrana, former president of Colombia.[14]
Panama Ernesto Pérez Balladares, former president of Panama[12]
Panama Juan Carlos Varela, former president of Panama[12]

Heads of government

Ivory Coast Patrick Achi, Prime Minister of Côte d'Ivoire[15]
Czech Republic Andrej Babiš, Prime Minister of the Czech Republic[16]
United Arab Emirates Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Prime Minister of the United Arab Emirates and Emir of Dubai[9]
Lebanon Najib Mikati, Prime Minister of Lebanon[17]

Former heads of government

United Kingdom Tony Blair, former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom[18]
Italy Silvio Berlusconi, former Prime Minister of Italy[citation needed]
Hong Kong Tung Chee-hwa, former Chief Executive of Hong Kong[19]
Hong Kong Leung Chun-ying, former Chief Executive of Hong Kong[19]
Lebanon Hassan Diab, former Prime Minister of Lebanon[20]

Heads of organizations

United Nations Dominique Strauss-Kahn, former Managing Director of the International Monetary Fund.[9]

Politicians

Honduras Nasry Asfura, current mayor of Tegucigalpa.[21]
Israel Nir Barkat, former mayor of Jerusalem and current member of the Knesset[22]
Brazil Roberto Campos Neto, president of the Central Bank of Brazil[12][23][24]
Mexico Jorge Arganis Díaz Leal, Secretary of Communications and Transport[25]
Ecuador Jaime Durán Barba, consultant of former President of Argentina Mauricio Macri[12]
Brazil Paulo Guedes, Minister of the Economy[12][23][24]
Netherlands Wopke Hoekstra, Minister of Finance and Leader of the Christian Democratic Appeal[26]
Serbia Siniša Mali, Minister of Finance and former Mayor of Belgrade[27]
Argentina Zulema María Eva Menem, former First Lady of Argentina and daughter of former president of Argentina Carlos Menem[12]
Argentina Daniel Muñoz, secretary of former president of Argentina Néstor Kirchner[12]
Israel Haim Ramon - former Vice Prime Minister of Israel and former member of the Knesset[28]
Mexico Julio Scherer Ibarra [es], former advisor of Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador[12]
Pakistan Shaukat Tarin, Finance Minister of Pakistan[29]
Pakistan Moonis Elahi, Minister for Water Resources[30]
Malaysia Daim Zainuddin, former Minister of Finance and Chief of the Council of Eminent Persons (CEP)[31]
Philippines Andres D. Bautista, former Chairman of the Commission on Elections and Chairman of the Presidential Commission on Good Government[32]
Philippines Rolando Gapud, businessman and former associate of the late dictator Ferdinand Marcos[33]
Philippines The family of Win Gatchalian and Rex Gatchalian, Senator of the Philippines and current mayor of Valenzuela City[34]
Philippines Arthur Tugade, Secretary of Transportation[35]
Philippines Dennis Uy, businessman, Honorary Consul of Kazakhstan to the Philippines and business associate to Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte[36]
Sri Lanka Nirupama Rajapaksa, former Deputy Minister of Water Supply & Drainage[37]

Royalty

Morocco Lalla Hasnaa, Princess of Morocco[9]

Businesspeople

India Anil Ambani - Indian businessperson[38]
Mexico María Asunción Aramburuzabala, Mexican businessperson[12]
Australia Graeme Briggs - founder of the Asiaciti Trust.[39]
Mexico Germán Larrea Mota-Velasco, Mexican businessperson[12]
Montenegro Aco Đukanović, Montenegrin businessperson[6]
Montenegro Blažo Đukanović, Montenegrin businessperson[6]
India Nirav Modi - Indian businessperson[38]
Brazil Antonio Jose, vulgo Pai, Construction Tycoon[12]
India John Shaw - Indian businessperson[38]
Israel Beny Steinmetz - Israeli businessperson[38]
Mexico Olegario Vázquez Aldir, Mexican businessperson[12]
Japan Masayoshi Son, Japanese billionaire technology entrepreneur[40]
Philippines The Aboitiz family, Philippine businessperson[41]
Philippines Joselito Campos, Jr., son of Jose Yao Campos, Philippine businessperson[42]
Philippines Helen Dee, daughter of Alfonso Yuchengco, Philippine businessperson and banker[43]
Philippines The Gaisano family, Philippine businessperson[44]
Philippines Oscar Hilado, Philippine businessperson[45]
Philippines The Tantoco family, Philippine businessperson[46]
Philippines The Wenceslao family, Philippine businessperson[47]
Philippines Enrique K. Razon, Philippine businessperson[48]
Philippines The estate of Henry Sy including his children Teresita Sy-Coson, Philippine businessperson[49]
United Kingdom Mohamed Amersi, British businessperson[50]

Other

Italy Carlo Ancelotti, Italian football manager[51]
Spain Miguel Bosé, Spanish singer[52]
Argentina Ángel Di María, Argentine football player[53]
Spain Pep Guardiola, Spanish football manager[51]
Spain Julio Iglesias, Spanish singer[51]
South Korea Lee Soo-man, South Korean record executive and record producer[54]
Germany Denmark Corinna zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn, German-born Danish princess and entrepreneur[55]
Germany Claudia Schiffer, German model[56]
Colombia Shakira, Colombian singer[51]
India Sachin Tendulkar, Indian Cricketer[38]

EDITED TO ADD: This is another thread on the Bitcoin Development on this same matter. I keep this one because the Economy section may benefit from a discussion.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/pandora-papers-they-said-bitcoin-was-used-to-avoid-taxes-think-again-5363798

Topic: Pandora Papers - Massive journalism work on tax avoidance and evasion - page 2. (Read 305 times)