Topic: Paper bitcoins (bitnotes). Is it worth it? - page 3. (Read 3837 times)
In its nature Bitocin is virtual currency so I don't actualy see the sense of making paper money out of it. Another reason is that not in all countries bitcoin is defined as money or payment method. My opinion is that there is no need to convert digital currencies in paper money, that is why they are digital in first place. Maybe just for souvenir reasons.
well i don't get the point , why do we want paper bitcoin , i mean the idea of bitcoin first was to move away from fiat so why bother we are better off with real money, bitcoin is a way to deal with money on the internet without having to physically give anything, sure if the internet will go down so as bitcoin but i don't think that is possible that we so attached to it nowadays.
yes i am also agree with you i also think so. bitcoin is really made for online purposes and to decentralize currency, so that all the people of the world start using same currency in all over the world. hope bitcoin will be the one and only decentralize currency of the world. This is because bitcoin evolved in this short time some government accept bitcoin as payment others are trying to create there own currency, some band them completely other want to control it. I mean there so many factors here that will have be included but bitcoin is never meant to to paper fiat money and it will never be. We can speculate and assume that some want to but they will have to do much more then just print it.
well i don't get the point , why do we want paper bitcoin , i mean the idea of bitcoin first was to move away from fiat so why bother we are better off with real money, bitcoin is a way to deal with money on the internet without having to physically give anything, sure if the internet will go down so as bitcoin but i don't think that is possible that we so attached to it nowadays.
yes i am also agree with you i also think so. bitcoin is really made for online purposes and to decentralize currency, so that all the people of the world start using same currency in all over the world. hope bitcoin will be the one and only decentralize currency of the world. Paper bitcoin or bitcoin private and public key imprinted on a paper was designed for new people so that they can understand how bitcoin works. There are some who use it to to store their bitcoin safely. Let say your PC is compromised and you want to transfer bitcoin in your PC to other wallet quickly. You can do this is with a paper wallet.
Paper bitcoins (bitnotes) and paper wallets are two different concepts
The first are basically certificates attesting the ownership of bitcoins lent to someone or some entity (say, a Bitcoin bank), they have neither private nor public keys printed on them. Basically, it is just a promissory note (as the one below) which is "a signed document containing a written promise to pay a stated sum to a specified person or the bearer at a specified date or on demand", as per Wikipedia...
Please don't confuse these concepts
well i don't get the point , why do we want paper bitcoin , i mean the idea of bitcoin first was to move away from fiat so why bother we are better off with real money, bitcoin is a way to deal with money on the internet without having to physically give anything, sure if the internet will go down so as bitcoin but i don't think that is possible that we so attached to it nowadays.
yes i am also agree with you i also think so. bitcoin is really made for online purposes and to decentralize currency, so that all the people of the world start using same currency in all over the world. hope bitcoin will be the one and only decentralize currency of the world. Paper bitcoin or bitcoin private and public key imprinted on a paper was designed for new people so that they can understand how bitcoin works. There are some who use it to to store their bitcoin safely. Let say your PC is compromised and you want to transfer bitcoin in your PC to other wallet quickly. You can do this is with a paper wallet.
well i don't get the point , why do we want paper bitcoin , i mean the idea of bitcoin first was to move away from fiat so why bother we are better off with real money, bitcoin is a way to deal with money on the internet without having to physically give anything, sure if the internet will go down so as bitcoin but i don't think that is possible that we so attached to it nowadays.
yes i am also agree with you i also think so. bitcoin is really made for online purposes and to decentralize currency, so that all the people of the world start using same currency in all over the world. hope bitcoin will be the one and only decentralize currency of the world.
I can see where it would be possible for a bank or business to give the private key of a paper wallet to 2 different people as a scam. That would be yet another way for people to be scammed with bitcoin. Some of those issues will get resolved as bitcoin goes more mainstream in a few years.
If that paper bitcoin is really happen, so bitcoin is not different with another papers money.
Bitcoin is unique because of it unseen and untouchable.
Bitcoin is unique because of it unseen and untouchable.
Does bitcoin have any physical form? I'm saying this cause of when I was surfing eBay couple days ago I saw a bitcoin coin on the sale. What is that? Just a symbol or a real coin that I may use?
This is called a physical bitcoin
Without seeing the photo it is hard to tell since there are a few varieties of physical bitcoins. You can think of them as a paper wallet of sorts, though made in the form of a coin. For example, Caucasian coins are made from gold, so they are sold with a premium equal to the amount of how much gold they contain...
Personally, I would stay away from these since you can't be sure that they are not tainted (i.e. their private key hasn't been compromised)
If that paper bitcoin is really happen, so bitcoin is not different with another papers money.
Bitcoin is unique because of it unseen and untouchable.
Bitcoin is unique because of it unseen and untouchable.
Does bitcoin have any physical form? I'm saying this cause of when I was surfing eBay couple days ago I saw a bitcoin coin on the sale. What is that? Just a symbol or a real coin that I may use?
Yep, banks could mess everything up. Easily. They certainly could pull some sort of fractional reserve thing, but I think the government would have to revise their definition of bitcoin as an asset and not a currency
Fractional-reserve banking has nothing to do with what is discussed here
We are mainly discussing depositary certificates which are used to confirm that someone has deposited bitcoins in a Bitcoin bank. Since these certificates are payable to bearer, i.e. anyone may redeem them in the issuing bank (not a depositor only), this allows to use the certificates as paper money (hence paper Bitcoins) in offlne transactions. Fractional-reserve banking is just a mechanism of preventing (to a degree) bank-runs in a decentralized banking system when banks loan only part of their clients' deposits keeping the rest as reserves (hence fractional reserves) if depositors decide to withdraw their money from the bank before maturity
Yep, banks could mess everything up. Easily. They certainly could pull some sort of fractional reserve thing, but I think the government would have to revise their definition of bitcoin as an asset and not a currency.
I cringe when I hear about paper wallets and paper bitcoin. I get that it's a secure way to store bitcoin, but it seems to run against what it stands for. We're moving away from paper money, and btc is a big step toward that. Clinging to paper bitcoin is like clinging to the past.
I cringe when I hear about paper wallets and paper bitcoin. I get that it's a secure way to store bitcoin, but it seems to run against what it stands for. We're moving away from paper money, and btc is a big step toward that. Clinging to paper bitcoin is like clinging to the past.
Yes, it's cool, if it eliminate the controlled paper money from the government it's fine... particularly I don't care to much for the 'form' of Bitcoin, I just wish it take place as a secondary, non-oficial but with high value that even my father (who's very uncorfortable with Bitcoin) beggins to smile when they thought whata mistake they did taking Bitcoin aside.
offline bitcoin transaction makes no sense, unless you treat bitcoin completely as an investment which you buy and sell shares of! and it still won't make any sense
How's that? Does paper money not make sense either?
you are comparing bitcoin paper with what banks did with gold but the difference which is also a big one, is that you can not buy and hold gold (like $5000+ worth of gold) and put it in your pocket or safely store it at home because of the space it takes and the danger of doing it. so you are more than happy about the alternative which bank offers you
I cannot possibly agree with that
Stealing bitcoin on average is a lot easier than stealing gold, it basically amounts to hacking a victim's computer. To steal gold, you would have to know the guy who holds it, where he lives and if he has a security alarm system installed (most likely) as well as whether he is armed (the possession of gold pretty well correlates with the possession of arms). Stealing gold two hundred years ago might have been a lot easier than today, but right now you might have to actually blow up someone's home to get it...
While your success is still not guaranteed
however with bitcoin you can buy 10 million dollar worth of it and store it on a piece of paper taking up 5 centimeter of space! so you never look for an alternative
Just in case, this topic is not about gold vs Bitcoin
If that paper bitcoin is really happen, so bitcoin is not different with another papers money.
Bitcoin is unique because of it unseen and untouchable.
Bitcoin is unique because of it unseen and untouchable.
It is an established fact that bitcoins aren't very useful for offline transactions (even if you could use, for example, OpenDime devices for making such transactions). If Bitcoin banks are allowed, they would most certainly start issuing Bitcoin certificates (let's call them paper bitcoins), like many banks did in the 19th century with gold. These certificates could easily serve as paper money of sorts and thus solve the issue with offline transactions. The main problem with this approach is that banks might start (and most likely will) issue more paper bitcoins than the amount of real bitcoins in their wallet. So this raises two questions. Namely, if it is possible to prevent Bitcoin banks from issuing paper bitcoins altogether once they get allowed and start popping up here and there, and if there is a way to make these banks to limit the amount of paper bitcoins so it would match the amount of real bitcoins they have...
I think we might eventually have to face these issues, especially if Bitcoin gets more traction in the future
These things might potentially exist if Bitcoin becomes more of an investment commodity rather than a currency, but that is still a considerably far distance in the future and a lot of these tokens might exist, although without massive consequences (hopefully) for the most part.I think we might eventually have to face these issues, especially if Bitcoin gets more traction in the future
I might think of this as a good idea if it was a bit more like paper wallets, but it isn't a bad start.
offline bitcoin transaction makes no sense, unless you treat bitcoin completely as an investment which you buy and sell shares of! and it still won't make any sense.
you are comparing bitcoin paper with what banks did with gold but the difference which is also a big one, is that you can not buy and hold gold (like $5000+ worth of gold) and put it in your pocket or safely store it at home because of the space it takes and the danger of doing it. so you are more than happy about the alternative which bank offers you.
however with bitcoin you can buy 10 million dollar worth of it and store it on a piece of paper taking up 5 centimeter of space! so you never look for an alternative.
you are comparing bitcoin paper with what banks did with gold but the difference which is also a big one, is that you can not buy and hold gold (like $5000+ worth of gold) and put it in your pocket or safely store it at home because of the space it takes and the danger of doing it. so you are more than happy about the alternative which bank offers you.
however with bitcoin you can buy 10 million dollar worth of it and store it on a piece of paper taking up 5 centimeter of space! so you never look for an alternative.
Quote
Regarding their usage, they could be used like any paper money, i.e. for buying things and paying for services
What do you mean by that line? What buying things and paying for services mean to you? Only $1000+ bills?
But I specifically asked you above if you think your proposal would work for large as well as small transactions and you said yes
Where did you ask exactly that?
If I remember correctly, you asked whether the Bitcoin certificates could be used for anything other than securing loans and paying debts only. Then yes, you could, for example, buy a home with these paper bitcoins. Should buying a home not be included into the category of other uses? Personally, I'm more inclined to think that small transactions with fiat money still sticking around wouldn't work primarily because of the floating exchange rates, not because there can't be small denominations if these are required. But, on the other hand, this issue is basically the same as with any other foreign currency, not just Bitcoin. For example, you would certainly have difficulty when trying to pay with dollars for a dinner in a European restaurant (even if you had cents and dimes for change)
Quote
Regarding their usage, they could be used like any paper money, i.e. for buying things and paying for services
What do you mean by that line? What buying things and paying for services mean to you? Only $1000+ bills?
Buying a home, for example. As I said above, with fiat still hanging around smaller transactions don't make sense primarily because Bitcoin would be a foreign currency in respect to any other currency used locally
But I specifically asked you above if you think your proposal would work for large as well as small transactions and you said yes. And I gave you a real world scenario and gave you an example of what I think is a common daily life transaction, too. I don't know what your bills are but mine aren't whole numbers all the time 
Convenience is the selling point of new technology and if people feel inconvenienced by using it the idea will simply not take off.
Convenience is the selling point of new technology and if people feel inconvenienced by using it the idea will simply not take off. Well let's think about this issue again. I beg you pardon but I still believe this is going to be an issue. Let's assume I have deposited 12 coins and have gotten 100 bitnotes 0.1BTC each. Let's assume 0.1BTC is valued $10 fictitiously. Now let's assume we need to pay for our dinner which costs $27.99. On top of that let's assume that the Bitcoin price will be fluctuating like it is now and the price constantly changes every other couple of minutes or so. We don't have to tip the waiter and want to pay the exact sum it's on our tab. How would we manage to assemble the exact same amount with our bitnotes without going short or paying more? Mind you the Bitcoin price is changing as we are talking to the waiter and fiddling with our bitnotes.
I'm curious if you know why there are such prices at all (like $X.99)?
Other than that, I don't think that you would want to pay for a dinner with bitcoins (unless you have a "dinner" for a few thousand dollars, of course). Bitcoin is "officially" considered as digital gold (at least, in this thread), but you won't be able to pay for such a dinner with either physical or paper gold (gold certificates). As I have shown earlier with a Woodrow Wilson 100,000 dollar certificate, gold certificates were used for transferring pretty large amounts of wealth. I don't think it will be much different with Bitcoin. Indeed, you might claim that you could just as easily make the transaction online (and by far safer at that), but cash is cash, and people love cash (especially those folks who are not quite law-abiding citizens)
I think it will stabilize if assuming the whole world adopted bitcoin and will be using it on a daily basis. Why? Because bitcoin was adopted by the world's population. If it did not have a stable price I don't even think 10% of the world's population will even think about bitcoin. Imagine, you have a USD in your pocket now worth 2 euros (just an assumption) then in the next ten minutes it dropped making your 1 USD into the value of 1.5 euros. Don't you think the whole world will be afraid of that? So I believe, the general adoption (like more than half of the world uses bitcoin already) will bring about price stability. Because if it is not stable, again, people will not believe in it and just ignore it.
PS. I do look at a ticker. I know how much it moves. But my assumptions is based on bitcoin being already adopted by the general population of the world.
PS. I do look at a ticker. I know how much it moves. But my assumptions is based on bitcoin being already adopted by the general population of the world.
Jump to: