Topic: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation - page 75. (Read 156711 times)

OK, that makes sense. So the "default" backups are at server level, backing up all the hosted virtual machines simultaneously, and are only used to restore in the event of a catastrophic storage server failure. (Most "clouds" have all their storage abstracted onto dedicated SAN or DAS devices.)

And the paid version is the same as the dedicated servers I assume - they install a software agent running as its own user, which then backs up whatever directories and databases you request. That's how it works on our dedis, anyway.

Businesses cease trading due to insolvency every day of the week.  You don't need to invent a theft in order to justify closing down a business which is running at a loss (or even one which is running at profit).

One of the options includes back up to other media including rotated tapes.  You have a choice about whether to have absolutely everything including your OS backed up or just specific items.  They actually discuss which backup processes are best for what types of businesses and how the various options affect restoration time.

Sooo... the extra cost additional backups are just more snapshots on the LVM, essentially? If so, that's lame. Paying extra for something that is already happening is stupid. However, if the extra paid option is actually a full disk clone, I would suspect that it would therefore be trivial to restore deleted data from backup in that case.

it means they do backup entire cloud cluster with all their cloud customer's sites in one snapshot, which in case of disaster would be more or less easy to restore, the whole cloud structure. problem is they cannot extract data of any individual client from it. the answer to your question is no, it wasn't possible by the sound of that citation.

I keep forgetting about that Angel Investor. I've sure that not only is he concern about his investment but, moreover, that his good name is not attached to any rogue entity, hence him probably having his lawyer(s) look into this issue, with letterheads already certifiably mailed. Only if we were so lucky during the MyBitCoin episode, its one year anniversary fast approaching.

~Bruno~

Whatever else might seem suspect, I'm inclined to believe that there is legal wrangling going on.  If I was the limited partner, I'd want everything about the claims and disbursement process reviewed by my lawyer and accountant to ensure that I was immune to any further (assuming I had any to begin with - which isn't certain in this case) liability once that process was completed.  Likewise, the general partners need to ensure that the processes they use aren't open to later legal challenge as they are responsible for all of Bitcoinica's debts and liabilities.

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I think they're saying that they can't recover information at the individual client level unless you buy specialised back-up services but if their whole server farm suffers a catastrophic event they have backups from which they can restore.  So they can restore the whole thing if needed but they can't restore selectively because they're backing up their data rather than that of individual clients is the way I'm reading it.

Was it, or was it not, possible to recover lost data from Rackspaces servers during that first 48 hour window? I don't understand how Rackspace is able to recover data from their servers following a "disaster" yet unable to after a phone call is made to them about data being erased by other means.

I'm puzzled!

~Bruno~

Doesn't look like this is going well...

Rackspace offers lots of different hosting options with varying levels of security and varying cost.  At least on some plans, scheduled and on-demand backups are an optional service for which Rackspace charges.




And yes, Rackspace does offer fully managed backup and recovery services - at a price.

http://www.rackspace.com/managed_hosting/services/proservices/disasterrecovery/

http://www.rackspace.com/managed_hosting/services/storage/managedbackup/

This has bugged me as well.  Until this episode I had the impression that Rackspace was a serious hosting provider.  Not some garage with a couple of racks on UPS and a fat ADSL line.  A serious hosting provider keep multiple backups of customer data off-site, because losing a lot of customer data due to some catastrophic event means losing their business.  Unlinking it from a web page just makes the data a bit more inconvenient to get to.  Impossible for the customer, but in no way impossible for Rackspace.  The data may be older than current, but I find it hard to believe that off-site backups were instantly deleted along with the servers.  Backup systems just aren't built for easy deletion.

Perhaps someone from Bitoinica can comment on how they have worked with Rackspace to rescue data?

It looks as though someone has made ZT bite his lip over the past week+.  I have no idea who "genjix" is except for this thread.

To the poster that said they received a EMAIL from Bitcoinica asking to confirm their address, when did you get this?  I have never received a reply from Bitcoinica after my original submission, additionally I have never received a response after 2 of my EMAILS to [email protected].

I am still willing to give these guys the benefit of the doubt.  I have a hard time believing that bitcoinica went under in one of the lowest volatility periods of bitcoin trading history.  I also have to say that for some reason I trust ZT, and I really doubt this guy went back and screwed this company over which would obviously drag his own name through the mud as well.  He is young, smart and financially well off for someone of his age.  Why ruin all that?

Although I am only a handful or so years older than ZT, I feel that he (tried) to handle this situation with a maturity greater than most of the adults posting on this website.  I understand many of us are out a lot of money right now.  I am personally out over 250+ coins ( and $25 cash :/ ), which represents ( unfortunately ) about 90% of my net worth...

All I am asking now is just a reply to one of my E-Mails to [email protected] and just to please return the money back as soon as possible.

Y'all might want to investigate how things work in NZ before you contemplate legal action.  The NZ Disputes Tribunal (small claims - <$15,000) can't hear undisputed cases and it can't be used for debt recovery - nor can either party have legal representation at their hearings.  Group litigation is also difficult to pursue in Commonwealth countries and it's not especially attractive to lawyers as awards of exemplary damages tend to be very low and costs are only awarded in part to successful litigants.  Unless a litigation funder can be found to underwrite the cost of bringing the action (and typically they cannot in low value cases), the plaintiffs risk significant individual costs if they do not prevail in the action.

As in many other jurisdictions, group litigation requires a court certifying both a cause of action and a "class" or group before an action can even proceed.  Bear in mind that any money spent by Bitcoinica in defending legal actions will come out of the company's remaining assets, too.

Were they to wind up the business in insolvency - which is an option open to them - then liquidator's fees would be deducted from the estate before final distributions were made to creditors and the distributions would be made according to established legal procedures.

Please don't comment if your post doesn't bring anything new.

Like : "AT THIS POINT there is no hope left" and "I will sue you to death"

 I'm watching this thread closely and am tired of people with little to loose making irrational threats.

This situation is beyond ridiculous and we all know it already.

I agree to go ahead with legal actions but please lets do so respectfully.

even if that were true there is probably a retention period after which those bits are no longer retrievable.  i would assume the data is stored to maintain service availability and not to protect against deleted instances, and as a result 24 hours or a few days after might be the longest they are kept.

So will I.

We need to draw a line in the sand somewhere and 30 days without access to funds is where I draw it (2012/06/11). After that the time for passively sitting around and waiting is officially over as far as I am concerned.

I agree. I still believe that genjix is a good guy and wants to do this properly, but I am now at a point where I need to see results (= refunds starting). And if not, I will join the legal process as you mentioned above

I almost forgot to mention, I know people who work at rackspace and I've talked to them.  Your logs & database being deleted is effectively a non-issue, it's a pain to recover but you can bet that they have the capability of recovering every last byte of missing information.  However to the best of my knowledge no one associated with this process has created or escalated the issue.  You can bet your last dollar that if the Feds become involved, not only would the records get completely recovered, they would become public information as evidence in a criminal case against you.  That would happen both as an entity and there is a good possibility of piercing the veil and making you severally (individually) liable.

Forget "legal wrangling" and other excuses, you've been caught in a lie, just refund the money now by sending it directly back to the originators, unwind your accounts and deal with the losses.  Your brand is becoming damaged by the minute.  If you really do have a silent investor as you claim, his/her investment is becoming worthless because your brand is being damaged by your actions.

I've now given all the warning I'm going to give.  My next post about this topic will either be thanking you for a refund, or explaining to the others where to go for a legal remedy.

They don't care about your 21 Bitcoins, nor about my 101 BTC, nor the next guys' 1000. Issuing warnings isn't good enough anymore at this point, we need to pull through and do something. Not sure if the Scammer Tag is the way to proceed, but given the liquidity problems particularly in the week before the hack, a staged heist isn't unthinkable. How else would you end an operation like Bitcoinica if you find out it doesn't work out? Certainly not announcing something like: "Dear customers, due to general shortcomings of the system we have to close our doors for good. We are very sorry for your loss."

For the record, I would like to see/read all those "hacker" logs published on this forum by whomever desires to take on that task.


This aspect (in bold above) strikes me as rather odd, for there's been plenty of time to put up a website/spash-page (Wordpress even comes to mind) offering up daily posts, no matter if most postings would come across as vague, so that all their clients who do not frequent this forum are informed unless, of course, over 90% of their client base were members on this forum. In the past, there were many times that eBay went down, but I was able to get updates via some site they've own, opposed to heading on over to the most popular eBay forum.

I'm still on record for being on Zhou's side, but I do find this aspect unacceptable.

~Bruno~