Here is how I propose to formulate the bet:
This bet will resolve to "yes" if before November 25 2015, most or all pbmining.com customers stop receiving their weekly payments, or receive payments that are significantly below that which corresponds to the theoretical yield of their purchased hashrate vs bitcoin difficulty at that time .
Simple, completely in line with the claims I made and no obvious loopholes. Ill leave it up to the escrow to determine what "significant" constitutes, as it seems unlikely to be a number that could cause confusion.
Topic: PB Mining -- 5 year mining contracts! - page 70. (Read 378930 times)
I'm glad you not going to conceed. But Puppet, do me one favor. I would like you to give some thought to the weight of some of the things that you say out here.
For a long time now I been listening to you boost much wisdom, some very good, however dont ever offer bets that you dont believe in enough to honor. #2 everyday I hear you say PB is a ponzi and it going to fold , even right up to today you now offering a bet of six months, and saying PB MIning>com as you prefer might even fold in weeks. When You, do this and some one says , I.ll take you on, one year, dont throw in complications, it's yes or no. got to go now anya
For a long time now I been listening to you boost much wisdom, some very good, however dont ever offer bets that you dont believe in enough to honor. #2 everyday I hear you say PB is a ponzi and it going to fold , even right up to today you now offering a bet of six months, and saying PB MIning>com as you prefer might even fold in weeks. When You, do this and some one says , I.ll take you on, one year, dont throw in complications, it's yes or no. got to go now anya
The very simple bet I propose to you after your offer has been contaminated by all this in your above statement. You original statement of this contained nothing about reduced payout or satoshis. you were claiming PB was going to be gone. This is simple , not all that above , its so simple that your either betting PB mining.com as you prefer is either going to last to Nov. 25 or its not , has nothing to do with all that .
Sigh.You havent been around very long have you? Sounds like you dont even know what a satoshi is.
As for the formulation of the bet, this is what I wrote:"How much are you willing to bet on pb still honoring its contracts 12 months from now?". Thats not meant as precise terms to a bet, and now is the time to clarify the statement. You dont get to dictate the terms to me or tell me what I meant, we have to agree on the terms.
If PBmining begins paying out substantially less (*) than the theoretical mining revenue of the owned hashrate, to me its clear that violates the "contract". How much constitutes "substantially", we can specify, but lets say 50%. Why do I want this clarified? Because there are many ways pbmining can dissolve this ponzi. He can just turn the website off and run, but I can think of half a dozen other ways that essentially amount to the same, but do not necessarily fall under your terms.
For instance, if PBmining does what hashking did, Im not going to concede the bet. If you never heard of hashking, google it, it was yet another ponzi (which I warned against), that collapsed and then began paying peanuts as reimbursements for a few months before vanishing completely. Or Pbmining could just unilaterally change the terms and conditions, like introducing fees, that consume the majority of the mining revenue, he can decide to start paying in some new scamcoin like GAW is planning. etc, etc.
I want to bet with you that pbmining is a scam that will cost late investors most of their investment, I do not want to bet on what excuse the operator will come up with or how he may try to legitimize his theft.
Why am I in a rush? Puppet, the other day, you were challenging everyone here, you claimed PB mining, would never last out one year. You were what I would call taunting others here and then you suggested how about a bet. You made claims to how no one who believes in PB mining would come forward and take your bet 2 for 1 and kinds of bold talk of PB folding. Other comments were made as to where are all the men who will take this bet, and made comments as to people were not exactly lining up to take you up on this.
Ive met this challenge, in a simple as possible way. If Escrow conditions can be found, sure I would participate in this. I just will need to learn how to do it.
However what is bothersome,
you say this----(As for the phrasing of the bet; lets call it pbmining.com and not "pb". I also want to stipulate that I win the bet if payouts substantially diverge from theoretical mining yields. So for instance if pbmining comes up with some new fee or whatever, to reduce payouts to a few satoshi, or declares being hacked/fire/whatever and begins paying out just a fraction of what would be expected based on difficulty, I still win
The very simple bet I propose to you after your offer has been contaminated by all this in your above statement. You original statement of this contained nothing about reduced payout or satoshis. you were claiming PB was going to be gone. This is simple , not all that above , its so simple that your either betting PB mining.com as you prefer is either going to last to Nov. 25 or its not , has nothing to do with all that .
Wether one uses escow or not , this was more of a simple , yes I agree to this or no I don't .
Ive met this challenge, in a simple as possible way. If Escrow conditions can be found, sure I would participate in this. I just will need to learn how to do it.
However what is bothersome,
you say this----(As for the phrasing of the bet; lets call it pbmining.com and not "pb". I also want to stipulate that I win the bet if payouts substantially diverge from theoretical mining yields. So for instance if pbmining comes up with some new fee or whatever, to reduce payouts to a few satoshi, or declares being hacked/fire/whatever and begins paying out just a fraction of what would be expected based on difficulty, I still win
The very simple bet I propose to you after your offer has been contaminated by all this in your above statement. You original statement of this contained nothing about reduced payout or satoshis. you were claiming PB was going to be gone. This is simple , not all that above , its so simple that your either betting PB mining.com as you prefer is either going to last to Nov. 25 or its not , has nothing to do with all that .
Wether one uses escow or not , this was more of a simple , yes I agree to this or no I don't .
I Anya Yakubu, in sound mind and thought accept a bet with Puppet. Our wager will be as follows: Should Pb mining fail, which would mean my dashboard no longer shows on my screen and mining, and that payout has ceased, and it is a general consensus on this forum that PB has failed before the date of NOV.25, 2015 6 PM Eastern Time. I will at that time send to Puppet .5 bitcoin with no excuses or delays. Likewise Puppet has agreed to pay me .5 btc if at the date above is reached PB mining has payed the Sunday before this date and my dashboard is still mining on our screens. Let this agreement be publicly noted. As this has been written so it shall be.
Ok Puppet, I think that all we need, I'm not going any where all you have to do is agree to same. Anya
Ok Puppet, I think that all we need, I'm not going any where all you have to do is agree to same. Anya
Why are you in a rush to get me to confirm this? You've got 11 months before you should begin worrying (/hoping). Its not gonna take me that long to organize escrow. I OTOH, cant be too sure you'll be around come Monday.
Anyway, as escrow I propose Tomatocage or Bitbob:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-bitcointalks-escrow-providers-ranking-blacklist-avoid-scam-276897
I have yet to ask either if they can do 3 way signature, but Im assuming at least one of them can. Let me know if you can live with those choices.
As for the phrasing of the bet; lets call it pbmining.com and not "pb". I also want to stipulate that I win the bet if payouts substantially diverge from theoretical mining yields. So for instance if pbmining comes up with some new fee or whatever, to reduce payouts to a few satoshi, or declares being hacked/fire/whatever and begins paying out just a fraction of what would be expected based on difficulty, I still win.
I Anya Yakubu, in sound mind and thought accept a bet with Puppet. Our wager will be as follows: Should Pb mining fail, which would mean my dashboard no longer shows on my screen and mining, and that payout has ceased, and it is a general consensus on this forum that PB has failed before the date of NOV.25, 2015 6 PM Eastern Time. I will at that time send to Puppet .5 bitcoin with no excuses or delays. Likewise Puppet has agreed to pay me .5 btc if at the date above is reached PB mining has payed the Sunday before this date and my dashboard is still mining on our screens. Let this agreement be publicly noted. As this has been written so it shall be.
Ok Puppet, I think that all we need, I'm not going any where all you have to do is agree to same. Anya
Ok Puppet, I think that all we need, I'm not going any where all you have to do is agree to same. Anya
As an impartial observer to this bet, i must insist that you both use a trusted escrow.
No offense, but first of all, your 'girl scouts honor' honor doesnt mean anything to me and your reputation even less. We will do this bet, but we will multisig/escrow it.
Secondly, my offer to reduce the time span of this bet to 6 months is obviously in your favor compared to the original 12 month. If this where to collapse only after 7 months you would win using my new terms, yet lose on the original terms. Of course if you insist, 12 month is fine by me too. Ill make it 10 years if you want.
As for being out of my mind; I did the math. Past week sales have been ~85 BTC (assuming the stats are correct). HIs payout ought to be ~380 BTC using the same assumption. So if you assume like me this is a ponzi, it doesnt take a math genius to figure out its not been a good week.
Secondly, my offer to reduce the time span of this bet to 6 months is obviously in your favor compared to the original 12 month. If this where to collapse only after 7 months you would win using my new terms, yet lose on the original terms. Of course if you insist, 12 month is fine by me too. Ill make it 10 years if you want.
As for being out of my mind; I did the math. Past week sales have been ~85 BTC (assuming the stats are correct). HIs payout ought to be ~380 BTC using the same assumption. So if you assume like me this is a ponzi, it doesnt take a math genius to figure out its not been a good week.
It was supposed to be 2X estimated payouts for the next year.
I want simple double or nothing bet, straight out , not confused with payouts, maybe we should do .5 so that way would be winner take the bitcoin. That sounds like fun don't it? Yes I'm serious about this, So puppet what do you say , can we do this? Anya
I cant seem to find a way to do this bet using multisig (with escrow agent for mediation only). So I propose a different solution; I create a bet on
http://bitbet.us/
I'll keep the bet open for a few weeks (tops, because I suspect pbmining may be getting really close to collapse) and resolution in 6 month instead of 12.
Anyone would be able to bet either side, so I cant guarantee you'll make even odds. I suspect you will do much better than that should you win, but thats just my guess.
Let me know if that works for you.
I want only are original bet to NOV. 25, 2015. I don't want this watered down bet for six months. I would be willing to use an escrow to do this but actually what I prefer is this.
Just as the block chain is public ledger of all bitcoin transactions. This bitcoin forum is a public record of all people say. This is how this would work. In a few moment I will post our written bet agreement. You can choose to accept or decline. If you accept you will quote this bet agreement with your word for all to see. I will save this to text file for future use. I will give my word on girl scouts honor that if I loose I will simply pay you. Likewise if we make it to Nov. 25 you will just pay me. It involves trust of a persons word that they will do as they say. I don't think .5 btc is such a big deal for either of us, and I don't think either of us would be willing to try to cheat on this in front of this entire forum. If in the mean time you can come up with escrow , I will be willing to pay into that also. Give me a few moments and I will post this agreement publicly for us.
Did you download the tool? From the tool menu, pick Escrow Tools.
I did, then saw it was a windows .exe
(running linux here)But judging by the text you pasted, its exactly what I was looking for, thx!
Now all we need is a mutually trusted escrow agent that can use this.
Casascius made a tool specifically for this purpose that I've used before, it works very well.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/do-it-yourself-escrow-with-two-factor-address-utility-129552
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/do-it-yourself-escrow-with-two-factor-address-utility-129552
Thats certainly neat if you dont want to use a third party, but Im not entirely sure how to use in such a way that, should I or my counterparty vanish, that the escrow agent is able to unlock the funds (in combination with one/winning party as ideally, the escrow wont be able to access the funds by himself). SO I want a "2 out of 3 signatures" solution.
Quote
How Three-Party Escrow Works
Escrow allows two people to transact in Bitcoin while leaving their funds visible to everybody and accessible to nobody until somebody releases them. It allows the payer or the payee to release funds to one another, and also lets a third person decide for them if the two can't agree. The third person never has access to take the funds, and is only needed to release the funds if the original two can't agree who gets them. Whoever gets a copy of all three "invitations" gets access to the funds.
Let's pretend that Alice wants to pay Bob, and they agree to use Eddie as their escrow agent.
First, Eddie creates a pair of Escrow Invitation codes. This is a matched pair of codes representing a single invitation. These codes can be used by someone else in a future transaction to give Eddie the authority to act as the escrow agent. He gives one code to Alice and the other to Bob, and keeps a copy for himself.
Second, Bob creates a Payment Invitation and gives it only to Alice, but keeps a copy for himself. When Alice and Bob use the escrow tool to combine their individual Escrow Invitation codes with the Payment Invitation, they'll get the same Bitcoin address. Alice and Bob must agree they have generated the same address.
Third, Alice sends Bitcoins to that address. Now, nobody can get them until someone releases them.
Alice can release the Bitcoins to Bob by giving a copy of her Escrow Invitation code to Bob (so that he now has both halves, as well as his Payment Invitation). He'll use the "Collect Your Funds" tab to enter all three, and will receive the private key needed to claim the funds. The private key can be imported into a Bitcoin client or web wallet.
Bob can give a refund to Alice by giving her a copy of his Escrow Invitation code.
Eddie can also force the payment to be awarded to Alice or Bob by giving them both Escrow Invitation codes. Eddie can't claim the payment himself because he would also need the Payment Invitation, which he doesn't have.
Escrow allows two people to transact in Bitcoin while leaving their funds visible to everybody and accessible to nobody until somebody releases them. It allows the payer or the payee to release funds to one another, and also lets a third person decide for them if the two can't agree. The third person never has access to take the funds, and is only needed to release the funds if the original two can't agree who gets them. Whoever gets a copy of all three "invitations" gets access to the funds.
Let's pretend that Alice wants to pay Bob, and they agree to use Eddie as their escrow agent.
First, Eddie creates a pair of Escrow Invitation codes. This is a matched pair of codes representing a single invitation. These codes can be used by someone else in a future transaction to give Eddie the authority to act as the escrow agent. He gives one code to Alice and the other to Bob, and keeps a copy for himself.
Second, Bob creates a Payment Invitation and gives it only to Alice, but keeps a copy for himself. When Alice and Bob use the escrow tool to combine their individual Escrow Invitation codes with the Payment Invitation, they'll get the same Bitcoin address. Alice and Bob must agree they have generated the same address.
Third, Alice sends Bitcoins to that address. Now, nobody can get them until someone releases them.
Alice can release the Bitcoins to Bob by giving a copy of her Escrow Invitation code to Bob (so that he now has both halves, as well as his Payment Invitation). He'll use the "Collect Your Funds" tab to enter all three, and will receive the private key needed to claim the funds. The private key can be imported into a Bitcoin client or web wallet.
Bob can give a refund to Alice by giving her a copy of his Escrow Invitation code.
Eddie can also force the payment to be awarded to Alice or Bob by giving them both Escrow Invitation codes. Eddie can't claim the payment himself because he would also need the Payment Invitation, which he doesn't have.
Casascius made a tool specifically for this purpose that I've used before, it works very well.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/do-it-yourself-escrow-with-two-factor-address-utility-129552
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/do-it-yourself-escrow-with-two-factor-address-utility-129552
Thats certainly neat if you dont want to use a third party, but Im not entirely sure how to use in such a way that, should I or my counterparty vanish, that the escrow agent is able to unlock the funds (in combination with one/winning party as ideally, the escrow wont be able to access the funds by himself). SO I want a "2 out of 3 signatures" solution.
It was supposed to be 2X estimated payouts for the next year.
I want simple double or nothing bet, straight out , not confused with payouts, maybe we should do .5 so that way would be winner take the bitcoin. That sounds like fun don't it? Yes I'm serious about this, So puppet what do you say , can we do this? Anya
I cant seem to find a way to do this bet using multisig (with escrow agent for mediation only). So I propose a different solution; I create a bet on
http://bitbet.us/
I'll keep the bet open for a few weeks (tops, because I suspect pbmining may be getting really close to collapse) and resolution in 6 month instead of 12.
Anyone would be able to bet either side, so I cant guarantee you'll make even odds. I suspect you will do much better than that should you win, but thats just my guess.
Let me know if that works for you.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/do-it-yourself-escrow-with-two-factor-address-utility-129552
Full moon in seven days.
Expect increasing obsessive nutcase activity.
Expect increasing obsessive nutcase activity.
you're early.
Full moon in seven days.
Expect increasing obsessive nutcase activity.
Expect increasing obsessive nutcase activity.
It was supposed to be 2X estimated payouts for the next year.
I want simple double or nothing bet, straight out , not confused with payouts, maybe we should do .5 so that way would be winner take the bitcoin. That sounds like fun don't it? Yes I'm serious about this, So puppet what do you say , can we do this? Anya
I cant seem to find a way to do this bet using multisig (with escrow agent for mediation only). So I propose a different solution; I create a bet on
http://bitbet.us/
I'll keep the bet open for a few weeks (tops, because I suspect pbmining may be getting really close to collapse) and resolution in 6 month instead of 12.
Anyone would be able to bet either side, so I cant guarantee you'll make even odds. I suspect you will do much better than that should you win, but thats just my guess.
Let me know if that works for you.
Regarding myself, I have 36 contracts.
So do you get a single payout for all contracts at once?
Yes
Greetings,
I have emailed several times in RE: Order Number Total Price Quantity Order Date
4382512211203 0.0350362 n 25 12-11-2014
Payment transaction: https://blockchain.info/tx/f43d0fbc5c8ee0b83fea2f923161912b9403bdf5aab4735c785251a72ad7378e
Dated : 2014-11-12
The contract status is still Pending. Please confirm when this contract will begin mining.
Thank You
I have emailed several times in RE: Order Number Total Price Quantity Order Date
4382512211203 0.0350362 n 25 12-11-2014
Payment transaction: https://blockchain.info/tx/f43d0fbc5c8ee0b83fea2f923161912b9403bdf5aab4735c785251a72ad7378e
Dated : 2014-11-12
The contract status is still Pending. Please confirm when this contract will begin mining.
Thank You
0.03493621 is what you paid. So I'm making an educated guess here: once you pay in full.
Greetings,
I have emailed several times in RE: Order Number Total Price Quantity Order Date
4382512211203 0.0350362 n 25 12-11-2014
Payment transaction: https://blockchain.info/tx/f43d0fbc5c8ee0b83fea2f923161912b9403bdf5aab4735c785251a72ad7378e
Dated : 2014-11-12
The contract status is still Pending. Please confirm when this contract will begin mining.
Thank You
I have emailed several times in RE: Order Number Total Price Quantity Order Date
4382512211203 0.0350362 n 25 12-11-2014
Payment transaction: https://blockchain.info/tx/f43d0fbc5c8ee0b83fea2f923161912b9403bdf5aab4735c785251a72ad7378e
Dated : 2014-11-12
The contract status is still Pending. Please confirm when this contract will begin mining.
Thank You
@pbmining
i send you a few personal messages without any response. please reply how to solve our problem.
please reply!
regards
dmasys
i send you a few personal messages without any response. please reply how to solve our problem.
please reply!
regards
dmasys
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