Topic: Perfect example of why governments must hold Bitcoin - page 4. (Read 21528 times)
Well, it's just that we can't easily compare bitcoin and gold, as a whole it is very different, for gold, you don't know the supply correctly but people have very high demand up to now, while bitcoin, I will say this as speculation and not suitable to be called an investment. Because of its bubble. And im sure every country has its own policy about foreigners withdraws their money in people's country.
How would he cash out the bitcoin tough ?
Like if he had 1.2 billion dollar worth of bitcoin instead of 1.2 billion dollar gold, how would he cash out the 1.2 billion dollar worth of bitcoin ?
Not only it would be impossible to do so in his own country because I am not even sure that much money exists in Venezuela as a whole but also would have hard time selling that much bitcoin over the counter so he would had to open an account somewhere and sell his coins which would drop the price and also the value of his coins and maybe get 1 billion probably a lot less for them.
Bitcoin is something that is amazing for storing and also great for small amounts and awesome for transactions and all that however when it comes down to cashing out bitcoin is not the best way
Like if he had 1.2 billion dollar worth of bitcoin instead of 1.2 billion dollar gold, how would he cash out the 1.2 billion dollar worth of bitcoin ?
Not only it would be impossible to do so in his own country because I am not even sure that much money exists in Venezuela as a whole but also would have hard time selling that much bitcoin over the counter so he would had to open an account somewhere and sell his coins which would drop the price and also the value of his coins and maybe get 1 billion probably a lot less for them.
Bitcoin is something that is amazing for storing and also great for small amounts and awesome for transactions and all that however when it comes down to cashing out bitcoin is not the best way
You are looking at it from a wrong angle
Why do you not ask yourself why he would have to cash out in the first place? He could just declare Bitcoin as a legal tender in Venezuela instead of Bolivar (i.e. official currency), and that would solve most if not all woes with hyperinflation in this country. If Bitcoin is too expensive for that purpose and not very efficient as a means of payment (which seems to be the case), he could also make Litecoin an official medium of exchange in addition to Bitcoin being legal tender. This couple would work just wonders together in curbing insane inflation rates in Venezuela
How would he cash out the bitcoin tough ?
Like if he had 1.2 billion dollar worth of bitcoin instead of 1.2 billion dollar gold, how would he cash out the 1.2 billion dollar worth of bitcoin ?
Not only it would be impossible to do so in his own country because I am not even sure that much money exists in Venezuela as a whole but also would have hard time selling that much bitcoin over the counter so he would had to open an account somewhere and sell his coins which would drop the price and also the value of his coins and maybe get 1 billion probably a lot less for them.
Bitcoin is something that is amazing for storing and also great for small amounts and awesome for transactions and all that however when it comes down to cashing out bitcoin is not the best way.
Like if he had 1.2 billion dollar worth of bitcoin instead of 1.2 billion dollar gold, how would he cash out the 1.2 billion dollar worth of bitcoin ?
Not only it would be impossible to do so in his own country because I am not even sure that much money exists in Venezuela as a whole but also would have hard time selling that much bitcoin over the counter so he would had to open an account somewhere and sell his coins which would drop the price and also the value of his coins and maybe get 1 billion probably a lot less for them.
Bitcoin is something that is amazing for storing and also great for small amounts and awesome for transactions and all that however when it comes down to cashing out bitcoin is not the best way.
You have made an argument based on the issue of control. Its because there is control over the gold bars that's why they can stand and insist a country cannot access its legitimate holdings. However, let's look at the effect on the overall market should the country own bitcoin instead and at once decides to sell out $1.2billion worth. The effect would not only crash the price of bitcoin, it could distort the entire crypto currency market.
In other words, they don't own gold anymore. Its like storing your BTC in an exchange that suddenly goes rogue. You can't withdraw it anymore because of technical issues they are going to be making out. In this case however, the gold was repatriated which basically are all gone. This isn't an example of why government has to have BTC since these gold are for dollar reserves, they can't do it with BTC either.
There are not even legit exchanges existed... Governments should regulate cryptocurrencies, payments, contracts in crypto... Only then they may invest and hold Bitcoins.
In other words, they don't own gold anymore. Its like storing your BTC in an exchange that suddenly goes rogue. You can't withdraw it anymore because of technical issues they are going to be making out. In this case however, the gold was repatriated which basically are all gone. This isn't an example of why government has to have BTC since these gold are for dollar reserves, they can't do it with BTC either.
There are not even legit exchanges existed... Governments should regulate cryptocurrencies, payments, contracts in crypto... Only then they may invest and hold Bitcoins.
In other words, they don't own gold anymore. Its like storing your BTC in an exchange that suddenly goes rogue. You can't withdraw it anymore because of technical issues they are going to be making out. In this case however, the gold was repatriated which basically are all gone. This isn't an example of why government has to have BTC since these gold are for dollar reserves, they can't do it with BTC either.
EU and UK are toothless loyal US dogs. They doesn't have own decision making process now. The point here isn't is Maduro good or bad, but the point is they are breaking all democratic principles.
Having Bitcoin will not help Maduro anyway. He will need to convert to fiat at some point. And all cryptos are what 120B? This is nothing compared to world finances and needs.
Having Bitcoin will not help Maduro anyway. He will need to convert to fiat at some point. And all cryptos are what 120B? This is nothing compared to world finances and needs.
Thus, Washington intends to prevent the country's authorities from "plundering the wealth of Venezuela for their corrupt purposes." Bitcoin is unlikely to be a panacea in this case.
You could make the argument of "if he was holding his gold inside his country he wouldn't have been denied access". Well still, it would make sense to hold Bitcoin and not gold, specially when you have an empire like US always threatening anyone with entering your country and taking all of your gold and oil reserves as they will do with Venezuela. With Bitcoin they couldn't be able to take them as you could have safe backups overseas.
Yeah, too bad you're missing something:
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On 25 November 2011, the first of US$11 billion of repatriated gold bullion arrived in Caracas; Chavez called the repatriation of gold a "sovereign" step that will help protect the country's foreign reserves from the turmoil in the U.S. and Europe.[226] However government policies quickly spent down this returned gold and in 2013 the government was forced to add the dollar reserves of state owned companies to those of the national bank to reassure the international bond market.
Most of the gold was already repatriated...and spent.
Second, you know that on this forum we have a rule, no collateral no loan...guess who wants loans without collateral right now?
Even a government personality was unable to withdraw his asset on need. This shows unlike the power they hold, they are dependent on a third party source for all their financial support. Now the same is serving as a troublesome. This gets eliminated with the use of cryptocurrency. As the Op title describes more the bitcoin hold by governments more will be the security of the nation. Because on emergency the government cannot wait anymore.
EU and UK are toothless loyal US dogs. They doesn't have own decision making process now. The point here isn't is Maduro good or bad, but the point is they are breaking all democratic principles.
Having Bitcoin will not help Maduro anyway. He will need to convert to fiat at some point. And all cryptos are what 120B? This is nothing compared to world finances and needs.
Having Bitcoin will not help Maduro anyway. He will need to convert to fiat at some point. And all cryptos are what 120B? This is nothing compared to world finances and needs.
Thus, Washington intends to prevent the country's authorities from "plundering the wealth of Venezuela for their corrupt purposes." Bitcoin is unlikely to be a panacea in this case.
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If Maduro was holding Bitcoin instead of gold, specially gold outside of your borders, he wouldn't have had that little problem. Of course Maduro is probably too computer illiterate to get the thing done.
You could make the argument of "if he was holding his gold inside his country he wouldn't have been denied access". Well still, it would make sense to hold Bitcoin and not gold, specially when you have an empire like US always threatening anyone with entering your country and taking all of your gold and oil reserves as they will do with Venezuela. With Bitcoin they couldn't be able to take them as you could have safe backups overseas.
This is an unbeatable logical argument for the bullish case of institutions holding Bitcoin. Im not saying they should dump all of their gold, but definitely dump a certain % and diversify with Bitcoin. This will happen sooner or later, and it just takes a first mover for the rest to follow, they will not be able to afford not having some due game theory, similar to not having powder back in the way when when wars were fought with swords.
You could make the argument of "if he was holding his gold inside his country he wouldn't have been denied access". Well still, it would make sense to hold Bitcoin and not gold, specially when you have an empire like US always threatening anyone with entering your country and taking all of your gold and oil reserves as they will do with Venezuela. With Bitcoin they couldn't be able to take them as you could have safe backups overseas.
This is an unbeatable logical argument for the bullish case of institutions holding Bitcoin. Im not saying they should dump all of their gold, but definitely dump a certain % and diversify with Bitcoin. This will happen sooner or later, and it just takes a first mover for the rest to follow, they will not be able to afford not having some due game theory, similar to not having powder back in the way when when wars were fought with swords.
There's always a problem when an asset is held by a third party.
The same can be said with any fiat, in my opinion. There is a risk that the bank who holds a country's reserves (especially if its jurisdiction is overseas) goes rogue and it refuses to move funds when it is instructed to. That risk is the same as what has happened here to Mr. Maduro's gold withdrawal.
Bitcoin combats this issue given its decentralization and trustless nature, as there needs no third parties to get a transaction processed and done
But it creates a whole host of other issues instead
For example, it will be extremely difficult to claw back the bitcoins if Maduro or one of his minions decides to pocket them. As you can see, no third party here is not without its shortcomings either. And I'm not even talking that the coins can be easily stolen or made appear stolen. You can steal gold too, but it will be a lot harder to hide this gold, especially if the amount of it is measured in tonnes (though I doubt that Venezuela has that much gold)
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If Maduro was holding Bitcoin instead of gold, specially gold outside of your borders, he wouldn't have had that little problem. Of course Maduro is probably too computer illiterate to get the thing done.
You could make the argument of "if he was holding his gold inside his country he wouldn't have been denied access". Well still, it would make sense to hold Bitcoin and not gold, specially when you have an empire like US always threatening anyone with entering your country and taking all of your gold and oil reserves as they will do with Venezuela. With Bitcoin they couldn't be able to take them as you could have safe backups overseas.
This is an unbeatable logical argument for the bullish case of institutions holding Bitcoin. Im not saying they should dump all of their gold, but definitely dump a certain % and diversify with Bitcoin. This will happen sooner or later, and it just takes a first mover for the rest to follow, they will not be able to afford not having some due game theory, similar to not having powder back in the way when when wars were fought with swords.
You could make the argument of "if he was holding his gold inside his country he wouldn't have been denied access". Well still, it would make sense to hold Bitcoin and not gold, specially when you have an empire like US always threatening anyone with entering your country and taking all of your gold and oil reserves as they will do with Venezuela. With Bitcoin they couldn't be able to take them as you could have safe backups overseas.
This is an unbeatable logical argument for the bullish case of institutions holding Bitcoin. Im not saying they should dump all of their gold, but definitely dump a certain % and diversify with Bitcoin. This will happen sooner or later, and it just takes a first mover for the rest to follow, they will not be able to afford not having some due game theory, similar to not having powder back in the way when when wars were fought with swords.
There's always a problem when an asset is held by a third party.
The same can be said with any fiat, in my opinion. There is a risk that the bank who holds a country's reserves (especially if its jurisdiction is overseas) goes rogue and it refuses to move funds when it is instructed to. That risk is the same as what has happened here to Mr. Maduro's gold withdrawal.
Bitcoin combats this issue given its decentralization and trustless nature, as there needs no third parties to get a transaction processed and done.
So you're absolutely right, given that bitcoin has the positive traits of gold which makes it valuable (decentralization of currency supply, no single entity issuing the currency), whilst improving on the convenience, portability and trustlessness of remote transactions, it does make sense for countries to start holding bitcoin in reserves.
Well whatever reasons could have been laid out, I think that such a huge amount of money cannot be easily withdrawn because large volumes of money can have an impact on the economic situation in a country. Even the US was always monitoring movements of huge in flow or outflow of money. I recalled that there was somebody caught bringing large bitcoin volume to the US. It was mentioned in a post here but I cannot recall that topic. It could have help us realize the idea behind this blocking of withdrawal if found.
the government will not be able and does not want to hold the bitcoin because bitcoin does have the principle to be coin or digital currency that cannot be controlled by the government or whatever, the only thing that can control bitcoin is so the government will not do that and chances are the government will make the price of bitcoin fall again by giving bad news.
This is an unbeatable logical argument for the bullish case of institutions holding Bitcoin. Im not saying they should dump all of their gold, but definitely dump a certain % and diversify with Bitcoin. This will happen sooner or later, and it just takes a first mover for the rest to follow, they will not be able to afford not having some due game theory, similar to not having powder back in the way when when wars were fought with swords.
I believe this trend might have already started like many big people and institutions might be switching over to bitcoins for their own reasons and definitely not only for diversifying. Compared to gold/diamond (one of the famous store-of-value)/USD/government bonds/wealth certificates, bitcoins got many big advantageous in terms of easy moving and easy holding and hiding purposes. Only lack of awareness is the reason why everyone is not into bitcoins till now.If his BTC is worth around 1.4 Billion dollars in December 2017 his BTC would be around 242 Million dollars by now which is more than 80% of its original value.
What if he would have been holding prior to December 2017 ? Value is not a constrain here because one bitcoin is always one bitcoin but what are the advantageous he could enjoy in the case of opting to have bitcoins instead of gold. Please always stick within the subject of a discussion. 
haha, blocking of so huge amount of money. Some may come and say: If he has been holding bitcoin, then no one knows what would happen with price changes and so on but please also consider at the same time that currently he is in stuck and who knows will he receive his golds? With bitcoin he could receive his money in some minute.
Agree OP but I don't care, I know what I'll do and how, everyone can get knowledge, especially since we have internet.
Agree OP but I don't care, I know what I'll do and how, everyone can get knowledge, especially since we have internet.
He will need to convert to fiat at some point. And all cryptos are what 120B? This is nothing compared to world finances and needs.
Bitcoin dows give the holder a certain level of control over their wealth, and it is not impossible to convert without getting caught, especially if the holding address is not known.
Also the market cap is not fixed and and can grow, it can also drop further as well. There are downsides to every technology.
Not a simple situation however. If he kept everything in Bitcoin, then they would not have taken them from him. But the course of Bitcoin makes itself felt. But gold belongs to him anyway.
Well, yes you are right, if he kept in cryptocurrency, then the resources would remain with him. But again, he is a man of the old school; he hardly knows much about this.
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