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Topic: Peter Todd calls dash snake oil. - page 3. (Read 11978 times)

legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
July 20, 2015, 05:43:38 PM
Start by rereading it. You missed some things, but I expect selective reading/hearing from dashers. Also, 95% of the nodes are in 5 countries (all allies) and on hosting services and there aren't 2,800 active nodes--last time i checked it was around 1,200. given pedos are mining dash (allegedly) it wouldn't be hard to imagine those countries working together to stop and prosecute by using subpoenas or coercion to hosting companies or the mn operators themselves.

Last I checked there are 2,866 ACTIVE MasterNodes. 1,200 was roughly 1 year ago.  You are obviously way behind.  I suggest you start by reading the open source code or the PDFs or something.

Your concerns are real.  I'm sure that the US and it's allies are planning this takeover while we type.  Jesus, this is the best you've got?

Meanwhile, I'm sure you all have been waiting for the reply to my PM.  Here it is:


It was less than two months ago when I did my research: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-reality-of-masternode-centralization-1077613 There are 1,800 active listed, but if you check the dates of the last transaction, you can see many are from months ago which means they aren't active unless masternodes don't pay for months which would suck for the operator--before when I researched, there was a list of the masternode's holdings (1000+ meant active, 0 meant inactive, most weren't --more than half if I remember correctly), but now that information and the hosting company's name is cut off--I'd like to think it was a reaction to my research--you don't want the suckers knowing too much about the going-ons.  


I do like how you create a fake satoshi reply, dismiss the attack vector without any analysis, and misrepresent the real number of active nodes, but I don't expect research or formal arguments from dashers. If you don't think law enforcement would coerce or subpoena mn operators (you'd only need Evan or Otoh for million dash) or hosting companies to comply in order to break up a pedophile-mining ring or a drug syndicate or human trafficking operation, then you haven't been paying attention with how well LEAs orchestrate international sting operations--though again, they would only need one or two whales and they'd have enough to undermine anonymity and it could be done by one domestic agency.

It's an attack vector and it won't disappear until you get rid of masternodes or find a better way for them to create anonymity. Also, Peter Todd hasn't made a post since early June and he is currently offline, so maybe someone can make him aware of oaxaca's request.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
July 20, 2015, 05:22:58 PM
Trolololol Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
July 20, 2015, 05:18:48 PM
Start by rereading it. You missed some things, but I expect selective reading/hearing from dashers. Also, 95% of the nodes are in 5 countries (all allies) and on hosting services and there aren't 2,800 active nodes--last time i checked it was around 1,200. given pedos are mining dash (allegedly) it wouldn't be hard to imagine those countries working together to stop and prosecute by using subpoenas or coercion to hosting companies or the mn operators themselves.

Last I checked there are 2,866 ACTIVE MasterNodes. 1,200 was roughly 1 year ago.  You are obviously way behind.  I suggest you start by reading the open source code or the PDFs or something.

Your concerns are real.  I'm sure that the US and it's allies are planning this takeover while we type.  Jesus, this is the best you've got?

Meanwhile, I'm sure you all have been waiting for the reply to my PM.  Here it is:



lol wut

this is satoshi's prof

https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/satoshi-3
hero member
Activity: 671
Merit: 500
July 20, 2015, 05:06:37 PM
Start by rereading it. You missed some things, but I expect selective reading/hearing from dashers. Also, 95% of the nodes are in 5 countries (all allies) and on hosting services and there aren't 2,800 active nodes--last time i checked it was around 1,200. given pedos are mining dash (allegedly) it wouldn't be hard to imagine those countries working together to stop and prosecute by using subpoenas or coercion to hosting companies or the mn operators themselves.

Last I checked there are 2,866 ACTIVE MasterNodes. 1,200 was roughly 1 year ago.  You are obviously way behind.  I suggest you start by reading the open source code or the PDFs or something.

Your concerns are real.  I'm sure that the US and it's allies are planning this takeover while we type.  Jesus, this is the best you've got?

Meanwhile, I'm sure you all have been waiting for the reply to my PM.  Here it is:

legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
July 20, 2015, 04:20:07 PM

I'm still waiting for you to refute this (I'm no Peter Todd, but it seems kind of a big security lapse and it can warm you up for when Todd shows up):




LOL. Here's the attack vector Evan created out of ignorance, stupidity or pure not giving a fuck.

The easiest attack is to buy masternodes and ddos attack competing nodes until you own the traffic. Evan claims it's financially implausible, but ignores that nodes are most profitable when there about a 1,000 masternodes (he has a ROI graphic on the dash BCT thread that underscores this). He also ignores that the attacker would be pulling incomes from these masternodes--given that most are held on corporate servers underlies that no one knows who owns them outside of the host and the owner. He also ignores how motivated an attacker may be, that he or another masternode operator might comply given the right circumstances (threat or lawful compliance) and how deep LE's pockets are--silly, dangerous, stupid.

If you trust that system knowing the flaws, you deserve whatever comes your way--except maybe being linked to pedophiles--can you show that link on your explorer?

DOS'ing masternodes doesn't reduce the anonymity set of the transactions or coins mixed before the DOS. If the masternode count drops 50% for example all of a sudden, mixing coins at that moment is not a good idea. It was already suggested a year ago or so that the wallet would take care of this and protect the user during the network downtime. It hasn't been implemented yet afaik, DASH must grow at least 100x at minimum before this (an appearance of such a motivated attacker) would become even a possibility.


DDOS is to control the majority of nodes, not to directly reduce the anonymity set--though by doing so while monitoring the nodes you posses would break anonymity--which was my point. Nice suggestion, but wouldn't an attacker take control of the nodes before any measures were taken, while it was cheapest, and while they could gain the most info for the longest time without raising any red flags? Also, you still have no measure in reality or in the works to stop an organization from using coercion or compliance to motivate a node operator to turn over data--this is even better since the whatevermine granted the first users such a large stash of coins and the masternodes are most likely concentrated in a few hands. But here's the big problem: masternodes are human controlled intermediaries that perform important functions. Whatever breaks dash's anonymity will happen because you trust this moronic system that is begging to be broken. You are playing a game of whack-a-mole and apparently no one in dashland has the theoretical capability to see it or the moral compass to speak up. Snake oil.



Your plan to break the anonymity of DASH is to:
Buy 1,000,000 DASH,
Set up 1,000 MasterNodes you control,
DDOS all of the other MasterNodes (2,800 or so in 38 countries), and
Profit!

where to start?



Start by rereading it. You missed some things, but I expect selective reading/hearing from dashers. Also, 95% of the nodes are in 5 countries (all allies) and on hosting services and there aren't 2,800 active nodes--last time i checked it was around 1,200. given pedos are mining dash (allegedly) it wouldn't be hard to imagine those countries working together to stop and prosecute by using subpoenas or coercion to hosting companies or the mn operators themselves.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 5142
Whimsical Pants
July 20, 2015, 04:14:00 PM

You guys started this thread to slap DASH in the face with an off handed, inaccurate and mean spirited comment by a so called "bitcoin developer" who is acting childish and insecure.  And you continue to act childish and insecure.  We just want to make sure that anyone opening this thread gets the other point of view as well. 

So called bitcoin developer? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commits?author=petertodd - looks like 60 commits to me. How many commits do you have on any cryptocurrency project? Given any talks? Written any analysis or whitepapers? He has a lot more history of providing intelligent input to the community than you do.

Dude.  You're talking about TasteofStephana.. no wait.. TantricStephanie.... you know...  
hero member
Activity: 671
Merit: 500
July 20, 2015, 04:13:33 PM

I'm still waiting for you to refute this (I'm no Peter Todd, but it seems kind of a big security lapse and it can warm you up for when Todd shows up):




LOL. Here's the attack vector Evan created out of ignorance, stupidity or pure not giving a fuck.

The easiest attack is to buy masternodes and ddos attack competing nodes until you own the traffic. Evan claims it's financially implausible, but ignores that nodes are most profitable when there about a 1,000 masternodes (he has a ROI graphic on the dash BCT thread that underscores this). He also ignores that the attacker would be pulling incomes from these masternodes--given that most are held on corporate servers underlies that no one knows who owns them outside of the host and the owner. He also ignores how motivated an attacker may be, that he or another masternode operator might comply given the right circumstances (threat or lawful compliance) and how deep LE's pockets are--silly, dangerous, stupid.

If you trust that system knowing the flaws, you deserve whatever comes your way--except maybe being linked to pedophiles--can you show that link on your explorer?

DOS'ing masternodes doesn't reduce the anonymity set of the transactions or coins mixed before the DOS. If the masternode count drops 50% for example all of a sudden, mixing coins at that moment is not a good idea. It was already suggested a year ago or so that the wallet would take care of this and protect the user during the network downtime. It hasn't been implemented yet afaik, DASH must grow at least 100x at minimum before this (an appearance of such a motivated attacker) would become even a possibility.


DDOS is to control the majority of nodes, not to directly reduce the anonymity set--though by doing so while monitoring the nodes you posses would break anonymity--which was my point. Nice suggestion, but wouldn't an attacker take control of the nodes before any measures were taken, while it was cheapest, and while they could gain the most info for the longest time without raising any red flags? Also, you still have no measure in reality or in the works to stop an organization from using coercion or compliance to motivate a node operator to turn over data--this is even better since the whatevermine granted the first users such a large stash of coins and the masternodes are most likely concentrated in a few hands. But here's the big problem: masternodes are human controlled intermediaries that perform important functions. Whatever breaks dash's anonymity will happen because you trust this moronic system that is begging to be broken. You are playing a game of whack-a-mole and apparently no one in dashland has the theoretical capability to see it or the moral compass to speak up. Snake oil.



Your plan to break the anonymity of DASH is to:
Buy 1,000,000 DASH,
Set up 1,000 MasterNodes you control,
DDOS all of the other MasterNodes (2,800 or so in 38 countries), and
Profit!

where to start?

legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
July 20, 2015, 03:59:35 PM
So you want Peter Todd tell you the formula of your own snake-oil? It's a snake-oil.  Wink

I'm impressed by your thorough analysis.  Your points are articulate and well laid out.

I'm still waiting for you to refute this (I'm no Peter Todd, but it seems kind of a big security lapse and it can warm you up for when Todd shows up):





I don't trust this system.  I can't see it and verify it.  What good is it for everything to be hidden completely, to the point where you have to trust that it is working?

With a simple, understandable system that fully protects the privacy of the user,  yet requires no trust - as was always the whole point of the decentralized crypto currency of Bitcoin - DASH is not more superior due to it's complexity, but due to it's simplicity.  If you're such a technocrat that you don't understand this, I can only feel bad for you because the majority of the world will.

LOL. Here's the attack vector Evan created out of ignorance, stupidity or pure not giving a fuck.

The easiest attack is to buy masternodes and ddos attack competing nodes until you own the traffic. Evan claims it's financially implausible, but ignores that nodes are most profitable when there about a 1,000 masternodes (he has a ROI graphic on the dash BCT thread that underscores this). He also ignores that the attacker would be pulling incomes from these masternodes--given that most are held on corporate servers underlies that no one knows who owns them outside of the host and the owner. He also ignores how motivated an attacker may be, that he or another masternode operator might comply given the right circumstances (threat or lawful compliance) and how deep LE's pockets are--silly, dangerous, stupid.

If you trust that system knowing the flaws, you deserve whatever comes your way--except maybe being linked to pedophiles--can you show that link on your explorer?

DOS'ing masternodes doesn't reduce the anonymity set of the transactions or coins mixed before the DOS. If the masternode count drops 50% for example all of a sudden, mixing coins at that moment is not a good idea. It was already suggested a year ago or so that the wallet would take care of this and protect the user during the network downtime. It hasn't been implemented yet afaik, DASH must grow at least 100x at minimum before this (an appearance of such a motivated attacker) would become even a possibility.


DDOS is to control the majority of nodes, not to directly reduce the anonymity set--though by doing so while monitoring the nodes you posses would break anonymity--which was my point. Nice suggestion, but wouldn't an attacker take control of the nodes before any measures were taken, while it was cheapest, and while they could gain the most info for the longest time without raising any red flags? Also, you still have no measure in reality or in the works to stop an organization from using coercion or compliance to motivate a node operator to turn over data--this is even better since the whatevermine granted the first users such a large stash of coins and the masternodes are most likely concentrated in a few hands. But here's the big problem: masternodes are human controlled intermediaries that perform important functions. Whatever breaks dash's anonymity will happen because you trust this moronic system that is begging to be broken. You are playing a game of whack-a-mole and apparently no one in dashland has the theoretical capability to see it or the moral compass to speak up. Snake oil.
hero member
Activity: 671
Merit: 500
July 20, 2015, 03:55:06 PM
So you want Peter Todd tell you the formula of your own snake-oil? It's a snake-oil.  Wink

I'm impressed by your thorough analysis.  Your points are articulate and well laid out.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
July 20, 2015, 03:48:39 PM
anyway where the hell is Evan Duffield? Tongue

It works both ways.  Wink

Unless there is something concrete to discuss, why bother?  A one-off name-calling without any rationale is trolling.  If some kind (ANY KIND) of real discussion points emerge...

So you want Peter Todd tell you the formula of your own snake-oil? It's a snake-oil.  Wink
hero member
Activity: 1792
Merit: 507
July 20, 2015, 03:39:20 PM
LOL..what a shade
hero member
Activity: 671
Merit: 500
July 20, 2015, 03:34:00 PM
anyway where the hell is Evan Duffield? Tongue

It works both ways.  Wink

Unless there is something concrete to discuss, why bother?  A one-off name-calling without any rationale is trolling.  If some kind (ANY KIND) of real discussion points emerge...
legendary
Activity: 1779
Merit: 1100
July 20, 2015, 03:18:28 PM
FYI

This thread is a perfect lame example of Argumento ad verecundiam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

It's a very common logical fallacy. Perfect for insecure people.


I'm very interested in the reasoning of PT about this issue.

Tnks Oaxaca.
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
July 20, 2015, 03:08:47 PM
anyway where the hell is Evan Duffield? Tongue

It works both ways.  Wink
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!
July 20, 2015, 02:24:39 PM
Do you think he's lurking here?  Roll Eyes

Try this: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/

I don't do reddit or twitter or facebook.  You have my permission to copy my question and post it.  I assume that you would be interested in his response.


EDIT
------
You started this thread, don't you want to read his justification?

Here you go:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/peter-todd-2546
i sent him a pm hopefully he will clarify and this insane thread will die
legendary
Activity: 1750
Merit: 1036
Facts are more efficient than fud
July 20, 2015, 02:23:07 PM
Do you think he's lurking here?  Roll Eyes

Try this: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/

I don't do reddit or twitter or facebook.  You have my permission to copy my question and post it.  I assume that you would be interested in his response.


EDIT
------
You started this thread, don't you want to read his justification?

Here you go:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/peter-todd-2546
hero member
Activity: 671
Merit: 500
July 20, 2015, 02:20:08 PM
I dont even knew Peter Todd before this, but i have to agree with him on that one... reduzing the block time is not a good soluction for a lot of reasons, bitcoin should be considered money, and its normal to have services working on top of it, just like VISA work on top of FIAT... you are talking about instax, instax is an feature on top of an central pseudo-descentralised autirity

Instantx is a transaction whose funds are locked by the masternode network until the miner network confirms it through block writing (EDIT - which prevents double spending and confirms in seconds).  Can you elaborate on what "central pseudo-descentralised autirity" means?
member
Activity: 95
Merit: 10
July 20, 2015, 02:16:22 PM
Surely DASH has at least one developer / supporter sophisticated enough to challenge Peter Todd on his assessment, no? If this was my investment, I'd push for answers if someone with a strong tech background called it "snake oil".

Again, it's tough to challenge his "assessment" when he provides ZERO backup or documentation or analysis or anything but name calling.

OK, let me quote your prophet:






hmmmm.  Is he saying that the instantx feature of DASH is "better off"?
I dont even knew Peter Todd before this, but i have to agree with him on that one... reduzing the block time is not a good soluction for a lot of reasons, bitcoin should be considered money, and its normal to have services working on top of it, just like VISA work on top of FIAT... you are talking about instax, instax is an feature on top of an central pseudo-descentralised autirity
hero member
Activity: 671
Merit: 500
July 20, 2015, 02:08:05 PM
Do you think he's lurking here?  Roll Eyes

Try this: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/

I don't do reddit or twitter or facebook.  You have my permission to copy my question and post it.  I assume that you would be interested in his response.


EDIT
------
You started this thread, don't you want to read his justification?
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