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Topic: Petition to pass the Bitcoin Alert Keys to Andreas M. Antonopoulos (w/POLL) - page 2. (Read 2884 times)

hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Litecoin Association Director
He has good coverage of a wide variety of aspects of bitcoin, like technology, economy, society, politics, psychology etc...

That's not the case with majority of the people in the community. For example, some of the devs are extremely good at coding, but they lack good understanding of how the society and economy, especially how a monetary system works. Because they are not working in those area, and those jobs like banker or senator typically holds knowledge that you can not get from google or school. When you don't have knowledge in a specific area, you might make wrong decisions due to lack of overview, no matter how good you are at your own expertise. A good example is block size debate, solutions can be technically correct, but economically and politically wrong

Devs can also improve their knowledge in other area, but that will also cost a lot of time. If it takes 10 years for a smart person to become an expert in coding, then it might take 20 years for him to become an expert in economy and finance, simply because the society and economy is not really a science, they are much more difficult to learn and understand, everything in those area are highly political and full of illusions

Take fiat money for example, why people blindly trust those pieces of paper even they knows that central banks print those notes faster than printing books? Andreas just revealed part of the reason: We live in an era where fear has overcome reason. It is difficult to understand fiat money's value without taking enough time to dig into the psychology root of each people's unconscious behavior. However, if you fail to understand how the value of a currency is based on, then your decision might destroy a currency like many currency makers did during past several hundred years


Very good post here. One issue I have had with the currency state of cryptos is the significant lack of systems engineering, which bridges all disciplines and can evaluate everything from a top down approach.

This is something I am working on in hopes that my contributions in the future are taken seriously as opposed to be ostracised since I am not a developer.
legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
He has good coverage of a wide variety of aspects of bitcoin, like technology, economy, society, politics, psychology etc...

That's not the case with majority of the people in the community. For example, some of the devs are extremely good at coding, but they lack good understanding of how the society and economy, especially how a monetary system works. Because they are not working in those area, and those jobs like banker or senator typically holds knowledge that you can not get from google or school. When you don't have knowledge in a specific area, you might make wrong decisions due to lack of overview, no matter how good you are at your own expertise. A good example is block size debate, solutions can be technically correct, but economically and politically wrong

Devs can also improve their knowledge in other area, but that will also cost a lot of time. If it takes 10 years for a smart person to become an expert in coding, then it might take 20 years for him to become an expert in economy and finance, simply because the society and economy is not really a science, they are much more difficult to learn and understand, everything in those area are highly political and full of illusions

Take fiat money for example, why people blindly trust those pieces of paper even they knows that central banks print those notes faster than printing books? Andreas just revealed part of the reason: We live in an era where fear has overcome reason. It is difficult to understand fiat money's value without taking enough time to dig into the psychology root of each people's unconscious behavior. However, if you fail to understand how the value of a currency is based on, then your decision might destroy a currency like many currency makers did during past several hundred years
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
He's not a dev so no.

He's a good spokesman, but that's not really relevant for holding alert keys, even as well liked and trusted as he is

Okay, I see my error, with apologies. Please advise me if I should look this thread.

At least the posts were enlightening.


I assume you mean "lock"?

If so no, discussion on topics like this only enable us as an industry to grow. Thats my take on it.

Thanks, and I knew I should've proofread that post more than ONLY four times prior to posting it.

So who has all the keys, Gleb? Inquiring minds wanna know.

All I know of is the three named in the OP.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1116
So who has all the keys, Gleb? Inquiring minds wanna know.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Litecoin Association Director
He's not a dev so no.

He's a good spokesman, but that's not really relevant for holding alert keys, even as well liked and trusted as he is

Okay, I see my error, with apologies. Please advise me if I should look this thread.

At least the posts were enlightening.


I assume you mean "lock"?

If so no, discussion on topics like this only enable us as an industry to grow. Thats my take on it.
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
He's not a dev so no.

He's a good spokesman, but that's not really relevant for holding alert keys, even as well liked and trusted as he is

Okay, I see my error, with apologies. Please advise me if I should lock this thread.

At least the posts were enlightening.
legendary
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1010
Ad maiora!
He's not a dev so no.

He's a good spokesman, but that's not really relevant for holding alert keys, even as well liked and trusted as he is
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
Please vote if you desire or not for Andreas M. Antonopoulos to have the Bitcoin Alert Keys currently being held by Satoshi, Gavin Andresen, and theymos.

EDIT: This is provin' to be interesting and unexpected. Please continue the convo, guys, and thanks for the inputs.

wtf is this

WTF is this?

Please vote if you desire or not for Andreas M. Antonopoulos to have the Bitcoin Alert Keys currently being held by Satoshi, Gavin Andresen, and theymos.
This makes no sense. No one's Alert Key should be "taken away" unless they willfully abuse it or improperly use it.
He doesn't have one yet. The poll is for whether he should get one. Nothing is being taken away.

I read Gleb Gamow's statement above to say something to the effect of:
Take these people out of the Alert Key code in the protocol and add a new one for Antonopoulos.

I understood it from this line: "to have the Bitcoin Alert Keys currently being held".
But maybe Gleb meant "to have like".

Edit: Just as a concept, in relation to Mickeyb's comment above me, maybe there should be a Tier 2 Alert Key system added.
It has limited capability, but in times of emergency can send a message.
Maybe allow five Tier 2 Alert keys. Give Antonopoulos one of those. But this is just my noobish opinion.

Correct!

Also, I've read that others may have the Alert Key(s), in which if true, this thread may be pointless. I would love to read definitive proof of such if true. Due to its nature, no names of those holding the key(s) needs to be revealed as far as I'm concerned.
full member
Activity: 138
Merit: 100
More stuff will come.
NO. I wonder why it should be controlled by a person?
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
I suppose that they are secretly distributed, but I wouldn't know. I would assume that the devs discuss it privately before giving the key to another person.

This was basically the main goal of my question, trying to know if they're secretly distributed... Thanks for your reply Smiley

Destroy all the alert keys forever would be the best solution.

Any specific reason why?
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Litecoin Association Director
I have nothing against Andreas , but no.
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Please vote if you desire or not for Andreas M. Antonopoulos to have the Bitcoin Alert Keys currently being held by Satoshi, Gavin Andresen, and theymos.

EDIT: This is provin' to be interesting and unexpected. Please continue the convo, guys, and thanks for the inputs.

wtf is this
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
Why not? He's been a true Bitcoin advocate and generally a trustworthy member of the community. Also, Satoshi is not here, and only two people currently hold the keys, apparently, so no harm in having more one or two people with the key.

Now the question is: would he accept such a responsibility?
More than just two people hold the keys. I believe that gmaxwell does also and probably all of the Core devs. But you won't find a list of all of the people who hold the keys. That is for their personal safety.

So the people known to hold the key have revealed themselves, at their responsibility, that they do so? The keys were secretly distributed?
They aren't going around saying that they hold the alert key (well some might have explicitly admitted it). But it can be inferred that the Core devs do, and some statements by some of the devs (e.g. gmaxwell) imply that they do hold the alert key. It seems that the general consensus is to not reveal all of the people with the key to protect them. If they do reveal themselves, then that is their own problem.

I suppose that they are secretly distributed, but I wouldn't know. I would assume that the devs discuss it privately before giving the key to another person.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
Why not? He's been a true Bitcoin advocate and generally a trustworthy member of the community. Also, Satoshi is not here, and only two people currently hold the keys, apparently, so no harm in having more one or two people with the key.

Now the question is: would he accept such a responsibility?
More than just two people hold the keys. I believe that gmaxwell does also and probably all of the Core devs. But you won't find a list of all of the people who hold the keys. That is for their personal safety.

So the people known to hold the key have revealed themselves, at their responsibility, that they do so? The keys were secretly distributed?
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
Why not? He's been a true Bitcoin advocate and generally a trustworthy member of the community. Also, Satoshi is not here, and only two people currently hold the keys, apparently, so no harm in having more one or two people with the key.

Now the question is: would he accept such a responsibility?
More than just two people hold the keys. I believe that gmaxwell does also and probably all of the Core devs. But you won't find a list of all of the people who hold the keys. That is for their personal safety.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 251
just an idea: wouldnt it be great if everybody could just edit the keys as he wishes?
eg. some people are the defaults but other can offer an alerting service too.

and anybody can decide which he wants to trust with alerts.

one question: are there different alert keys per person? are all alert keys needed to send an alert or is one sufficient?
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
Why not? He's been a true Bitcoin advocate and generally a trustworthy member of the community. Also, Satoshi is not here, and only two people currently hold the keys, apparently, so no harm in having more one or two people with the key.

Now the question is: would he accept such a responsibility?
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
Please vote if you desire or not for Andreas M. Antonopoulos to have the Bitcoin Alert Keys currently being held by Satoshi, Gavin Andresen, and theymos.
This makes no sense. No one's Alert Key should be "taken away" unless they willfully abuse it or improperly use it.
He doesn't have one yet. The poll is for whether he should get one. Nothing is being taken away.

I read Gleb Gamow's statement above to say something to the effect of:
Take these people out of the Alert Key code in the protocol and add a new one for Antonopoulos.

I understood it from this line: "to have the Bitcoin Alert Keys currently being held".
But maybe Gleb meant "to have like".

Edit: Just as a concept, in relation to Mickeyb's comment above me, maybe there should be a Tier 2 Alert Key system added.
It has limited capability, but in times of emergency can send a message.
Maybe allow five Tier 2 Alert keys. Give Antonopoulos one of those. But this is just my noobish opinion.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Move On !!!!!!

I don't honestly see what Andreas Antonopoulos can have with these keys. I mean I love the men, I love the way he speaks about Bitcoin and represents the community, I love his dedication and knowledge, but what alert messages will he be sending for God's sake?

These keys need to rest in the sole possession of the devs and Bitcoin creators, just like they were until now.
I agree with this statement, but then why does theymos have an alert key?

There must be a reason. He's here from beginning so there is a big trust in him by the whole Bitcoin community.

The other reason that comes to my mind is what if something is to happen to Gavin? On the top of that we don't even know is Satoshi alive. You have to have third person with the keys just in case. You have to spread out the risk between the people.

3rd reason! I don't have an explanation! Smiley
staff
Activity: 3458
Merit: 6793
Just writing some code
Please vote if you desire or not for Andreas M. Antonopoulos to have the Bitcoin Alert Keys currently being held by Satoshi, Gavin Andresen, and theymos.

This makes no sense. No one's Alert Key should be "taken away" unless they willfully abuse it or improperly use it.
He doesn't have one yet. The poll is for whether he should get one. Nothing is being taken away.

I don't honestly see what Andreas Antonopoulos can have with these keys. I mean I love the men, I love the way he speaks about Bitcoin and represents the community, I love his dedication and knowledge, but what alert messages will he be sending for God's sake?

These keys need to rest in the sole possession of the devs and Bitcoin creators, just like they were until now.
I agree with this statement, but then why does theymos have an alert key?
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